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Got him for a deal too! Only 50 million!
No, I don't think so. But I already told you that. Matter is, offering Simmons more than what he got would have been bad business.
A more interesting question is: "if the Spurs would have offered him exactly the same as Orlando, Simmons would have stayed?"
Got him for a deal too! Only 50 million!
Simmons wanting to come off the bench for a lottery team is still a coping mechanism.
Because it absolves people and the Spurs about being wrong on the basketball side of things. They can keep being wrong because they have the cover of Simmons Hearts Magic.
Everyone who wanted Simmons cut or insisted he was a scrub has their "Get Out of Being Laughably Wrong Free" card. "But but Simms wanted out! There was nothing they could do!"
Of course there was something they could do. Offer him more money for one. Match him for two.
You mean "if the Spurs had matched would he have stayed?"
The answer is yes. It's why teams want to have rfa rights. It's about using every asset.
I was never of the opinion that Simmons was capable of being more than a capable role player, but I've of paid him over some of the contracts the Spurs handed out. Simmons playing great against the Cavs doesn't say too much though...Murray looked good against the Cavs too.
Same pay but potential starting and living In Orlando easy desicion
I thought you were eliminating the restricted free agent stuff of your hypothetical scenario when you asked: "If the Spurs offered more, or a full guarantee on that last year ... Does he still leave?"
That’s where we disagree. I don’t think he would have stayed for the same money. He asked for the QO to be pulled and his agent leaked that they were looking for offers from other teams and wouldn’t come back to the Spurs even b4 he signed with the Magic.
Playing time and role are important to him. He said that, more than once and he had a clearer path to a starting role in Orlando, plus he had a 6th man role offered to him. He didn’t have those things in SA. Depending how hungry you are for playing time you’d rather play in a worse team with less structure, where you have a bigger opportunity to rise and get a name for yourself than in a playoff team with a structured system, entrenched guys etc and no real path to get more shots.
I don't need no get out card, tbh. I've been posting on this thread since the beginning of the season stats that suggest that Simmons is the same limited player that he was on his stint here. He still can't shoot, he still can't average more assists than turnovers and he's still a negative impact player all across the board, tbh.
Let me clarify for you though it should be clear: if the Spurs offered more or guaranteed third year, does he not sign the offer?
Because if he was so diehard to get out, then he would not have signed no matter what. But I doubt it. Do you?
They had his RFA, they should have used it. I think he was worth even more. He is absolutely worth what he got.
Now, if the Spurs had replaced him with another defensive slasher like Hanga on a cheaper deal, I would have been fine. Rather have Simmons, but if Hanga was signed for a 3/12 or 3/9 or 3/13, etc, I think that's understandable. Reasonable.
But they didn't.
I think, but don't know, that he wanted the QO pulled because teams weren't offering, afraid of the Spurs matching. The Spurs weren't offering what he got from Orlando, but could have and should have matched. But no one would do the offer with SA holding the rights.
He wanted money. No one would offer with the RFA looming. If he was going to get the money, he couldn't under the RFA. Spurs for whatever reason thought they could make lightning strike twice with Paul and realized that if Orlando put it in writing and they matched, they'd be paying the tax this year. They decided he wasn't worth the tax, and Mills was.
Still better than Patty too. Still has a skill set thats more valuable against good teams.
I might look it up tomorrow if I feel like it but his agent asked for the QO to be pulled after the Spurs backpedaled on a trade with the Suns that would have brought Tyson Chandler to the Spurs in exchange for Simmons. Immediately after his agent said they were looking for offers from teams other than the Spurs and that he wouldn’t be back. That was before he signed with Orlando. After he got the offer from Orlando and agreed on a deal his agent explained that they didn’t get offers while he as restricted and that the Spurs did him a favor lifting the QO bc they didn’t really have to. They could have penny punches him harder like Mirotic like Jamychal Green who didn’t sign with the Grizz until right b4 training camp. The Spurs could have leveraged their QO and Simmons RFA status to realky squeeze him but instead they set him free per his request.
I don’t think they tried to outbid the Magic at all. They may have wanted to match but JSimms had his mind made up. I really think if the money was the same, he would much rather be in the Magic.
I do think he would have stayed. To me it's obvious that all Simmons cared about was the money. I do also think that he wasn't comfortable with his role on the Spurs and he was never all that fond of the Spur to begin with (just remember his celebration of 6).
And no, I don't think Simmons is worth more than what he got, that's why he didn't get it. Last season I probably didn't even think he was worth what he got, but then the Mills and Gasol signings happened and suddenly the Simmons' contract didn't look too bad.
But I repeat: the dude sucks. He's a journeyman having his two minutes of fame and he still rates as a borderline mediocre player at best. There shouldn't be these much crying about this guy, imho.
Last edited by DAF86; 02-07-2018 at 01:17 AM.
Maybe. Though, if Mills hits his threes like he did in '14, a case could be made the other way.
Either way, neither of these guys are players that would help you get over the GS hump. The team that beats the Warriors will not have a guy like Jonathan ing Simmons or Patty Mills as important pieces. To beat the Warriors you need well rounded player that bring substance over flash, tbh.
Last edited by DAF86; 02-07-2018 at 01:15 AM.
BTW, I am not a JSimms hater though I think he gets overrated by some here with trolling intentions (and objective isn’t one).
I think he could have helped this season but in a fully healthy team he likely still would have been around 9-10 man and Pop would still have played Anderson, except this season he would have added Bryn Forbes at time bc that’s who Pop is. Even now he’s calling up 2 way players and benching guys in his current rotation for these dleaguers so they get over themselves or to humble them, or to make them hungrier orjust bc he’s fishing for talent. JSimms knows this. In a fully healthy team his minutes may not have looked that much different from last year and he said he struggled last season bc of that and that he couldn’t play like that, including Pops benchings.
I mean he said these things. Like DAF86 said, he didn’t have to go through all this trouble to explain all this if he didn’t really think like that.
Even when Mills 3s fall once every 3 gsmes, hes a scarecrow on D. He matches up worse vs the best teams.
Mills wasn't a liability against the Heat in '14, tbh. But anyway, I don't care to defend Mills because you know that agree with you on this.
But Simmons isn't that much better in that type of matchup either. Sure, his slashing and defense (although this season he has some awful defensive numbers) would help. But what about the rest? Contending teams know how to turn an off ball perimeter player that can't shoot into a liability over the course of a tight playoffs series.
Mills 3 point shooting vs Heat is overstated & overrated. Heat were overrated with a lot of old vets who could no longer play, Wade wasn't the same either. It was LeBron and Bosh..tbh
Spurs mounted on 15 point leads and Mills piled on top of those leads by getting easy wide open transition 3s that wouldn't have mattered whether they went in or not. Spurs still win by double digits without Mills, as everyone piled on that series.
People make it seem like Mills was Kawhi that series...when he was just a Spurs Steve Kerr or an Eddie House.
We 100% agree that he was all about the money.
That's been my point, if the Spurs paid him he's a Spur.
The "He didn't want to be here" thing doesn't matter. Maybe it's Simmons fans who play the card to get to sleep easy instead. But it was the money.
Mills in 14 was a better defender because he wasn't so heavy and was younger
Let's not forget the Miami point guards. Not exactly a murderers row going up against Norris Cole and Tony Douglas, two guys out of the league. Chalmers started and hasn't been so hot since either.
If the Spurs has Simmons And Dedmon this season instead of Joffrey Mills we have 5 less losses this season
But one more Trump supporter. Nope.
I would have rather paid both of them instead of Mills.
Could the Spurs have given Dedmon 7M and also Simmons 6M and let Mills walk? If so, they should have done that instead.
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