Have you realized just how awful Simmons numbers are?

[DAF86]

I knew he was bad by my eye test but last night, arguing with another poster about Simmons, I got to look at his stats and it surprised me to see that his numbers are even worse than I imagined. Last season in 78 games he averaged:

6.2 ppg - 1.6 apg - 1.0 topg - 1.9 rpg - 42 FG% - 29 3P% - 50 TS% - 9.9 PER - -2.8 OPM - 0.9 DPM - -1.9 PM - 0.0 VORP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...simmojo02.html

Is this the guy some of you are desperate to bring back? Is this the guy worth 10 million per year? Sorry sons but that , tbh.

[Dex]

I knew he was bad by my eye test but last night, arguing with another poster about Simmons, I got to look at his stats and it surprised me to see that his numbers are even worse than I imagined. Last season in 78 games he averaged:

6.2 ppg - 1.6 apg - 1.0 topg - 1.9 rpg - 42 FG% - 29 3P% - 9.9 PER - -2.8 OPM - 0.9 DPM - -1.9 PM - 0.0 VORP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...simmojo02.html

Is this the guy some of you are desperately to bring back? Is this the guy worth 10 million per year? Sorry sons but that , tbh.

I think a lot of people just have recency bias and got enamored with his playoff run and games when Kawhi was out.

He did show a lot of heart and played considerably better in the playoffs with the main unit, but a lot of people can put up better numbers when they know they have the green light. There is no guarantee that role is even going to be available for him if he come back here...especially if Manu returns.

I'm all for bringing him back at the right price and seeing if he can continue to add onto last year, but I won't be too beat up about it if he goes elsewhere. He is probably one of the most easily replaceable spots on the roster.

[$pursDynasty]

ditto what Dex said, however seeing that Juice was probably our third best Spur playoff performer behind the injured MVParker and KingSlayer and the fact that he brings one thing to the Spurs which they desperately lack...athleticism. So at the right price I want Jon back. All the rest of the team besides those 3 were such disappointments in the playoffs that I would hate to lose one of the 3 rare bright spots on the roster, we need more of those not less.

[DAF86]

ditto what Dex said, however seeing that Juice was probably our third best Spur playoff performer behind the injured MVParker and KingSlayer and the fact that he brings one thing to the Spurs which they desperately lack...athleticism. So at the right price I want Jon back. All the rest of the team besides those 3 were such disappointments in the playoffs that I would hate to lose one of the 3 rare bright spots on the roster, we need more of those not less.

Even in the playoffs he wasn't anything to write home about:

10.5 ppg - 1.9 apg - 0.7 topg - 1.9 rpg - 45 FG% - 35 3P% - 52 TS% - 15 PER - 0.4 OPM - -0.8 DPM - -0.4 PM - 0.1 VORP

So, even at his best Simmons is a mediocre player that isn't even a net positive. Folks need to seriously stop overreacting about a couple of games, tbh.

[Texas_Ranger]

I'll be fine if we give him 2Y 10M... If someone wants to throw some crazy money at him, you can have him.

[Chinook]

Simmons wasn't that good on either end. But he tried. Back in the olden days, SA could keep him for like $11M/3 and get an eighth man. , that's what they gave Green in 2012. But a lot of folks think he's shown a lot more than he has. It's a damned shame that they couldn't make a deal for Hanga.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'm glad someone is pointing this out. He might evolve into a decent rotation player but his ceiling is pretty low.

Basically the Spurs are Kawhi Leonard, a power forward who can't show up for big games, another over-the-hill power forward, yet another over-the-hill (injured) power forward, an over-the-hill point guard, an over-the-hill shooting guard, and a bunch of end of the bench role players.

[SAGirl]

That was while also getting opportunities to pad stats in garbage time too...

I wanted the Spurs to get some better talent but since they decided to bring the band back, I like him back for sure but not at an expensive rate. Sure there are a few fanboys that will cite Pops rotations for vexing him but he was averaging 20 minutes per game after a hot start to the season in a very well entrenched role when his minutes started waning bc he was plain old sucking for months, as a bench player mind you.

Yes he got hot in the postseason and had a few good games and deserves a payday IMO. But I don't know how much and should it be too high I think Spurs pass on it. Might even be the reason such a long run is being given to Bryn Forbes in summer league. His defense is probably going to be missed but not his scoring.

Still the market is drying up for him and there's a chance he is back in the team in a short term deal if he still wants to pursue a better contract next season.

[Russ]

I knew he was bad by my eye test but last night, arguing with another poster about Simmons, I got to look at his stats and it surprised me to see that his numbers are even worse than I imagined. Last season in 78 games he averaged:

6.2 ppg - 1.6 apg - 1.0 topg - 1.9 rpg - 42 FG% - 29 3P% - 50 TS% - 9.9 PER - -2.8 OPM - 0.9 DPM - -1.9 PM - 0.0 VORP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...simmojo02.html

Is this the guy some of you are desperate to bring back? Is this the guy worth 10 million per year? Sorry sons but that , tbh.

Simmons shows up big in big games. The season opener against the champs. The playoffs (against the champs).

He likes the bright lights, a bit like Horry (but a different skillset, of course).

The Spurs don't need guys for the regular season -- they'll be fine. They need players who match up with Golden State and Simmons does that.

[Horse]

I knew he was bad by my eye test but last night, arguing with another poster about Simmons, I got to look at his stats and it surprised me to see that his numbers are even worse than I imagined. Last season in 78 games he averaged:

6.2 ppg - 1.6 apg - 1.0 topg - 1.9 rpg - 42 FG% - 29 3P% - 50 TS% - 9.9 PER - -2.8 OPM - 0.9 DPM - -1.9 PM - 0.0 VORP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...simmojo02.html

Is this the guy some of you are desperate to bring back? Is this the guy worth 10 million per year? Sorry sons but that , tbh.

Come playoff time he's not a ing pussy like LA that's good enough for me. One of the few we have that can penetrate.

[$pursDynasty]

I get that some say they were unimpressed on his work as a whole but I am still stating that he made the effort in the playoffs which I can't say for many Spurs besides Kiwi, TP, and Manu.....So that being said I would rather keep him at a reasonable price and cut/renounce/trade some of the ones that didn't bother to show up. A lot is made of the Spur's culture and to me that means showing up in the playoffs under pressure. There aren't many players in the entire league I trust to do that so if Jon has shown the potential to be one, I say keep him, there are about 10 other players on the roster that didn't so if keeping him costs us one of those...so be it.

[SAGirl]

ditto what Dex said, however seeing that Juice was probably our third best Spur playoff performer behind the injured MVParker and KingSlayer and the fact that he brings one thing to the Spurs which they desperately lack...athleticism. So at the right price I want Jon back. All the rest of the team besides those 3 were such disappointments in the playoffs that I would hate to lose one of the 3 rare bright spots on the roster, we need more of those not less.

Obvious slight to Anderson... but carry on...

[DAF86]

I'll be fine if we give him 2Y 10M... If someone wants to throw some crazy money at him, you can have him.

That's the absolute max I would pay for him. And I'm doubting it. It's really hard for me to believe the Spurs can't find another athletic wing which is both younger and has a higher celing. Simmons is what he is at this point, he won't get much better. I would rather get a 20 year old, with a chance of actually improving, to play the role of athletic 4th or 5th wing off the bench.

[itzsoweezee]

Even in the playoffs he wasn't anything to write home about:

10.5 ppg - 1.9 apg - 0.7 topg - 1.9 rpg - 45 FG% - 35 3P% - 52 TS% - 15 PER - 0.4 OPM - -0.8 DPM - -0.4 PM - 0.1 VORP

So, even at his best Simmons is a mediocre player that isn't even a net positive. Folks need to seriously stop overreacting about a couple of games, tbh.

Those are pretty good numbers. That's about right for $10 million per year. No one's expecting him to be a superstar.

[spurs10]

Post AllStar break was really bad for Dedmon too.

[$pursDynasty]

Obvious slight to Anderson... but carry on...

no offense meant when I started my comment I was thinking who showed up in the playoffs besides Kiwi (obvious) and Tony (pleasant surprise) and all I could recall was Pop postgame talking about how Jon (because he doesn't call him Simmons) was a lone bright spot post Kiwi injury. Then I added Manu because even if he isn't on his game he is always trying (sometimes too hard). I don't remember Pop saying much about Mr. Anderson's play in any of the postgame interviews (or anyone else besides the three I mentioned.

[8FOR!3]

That's the absolute max I would pay for him. And I'm doubting it. It's really hard for me to believe the Spurs can't find another athletic wing which is both younger and has a higher celing. Simmons is what he is at this point, he won't get much better. I would rather get a 20 year old, with a chance of actually improving, to play the role of athletic 4th or 5th wing off the bench.

Do you know any 20 year old athletic wings who are legitimate NBA players (AKA capable of playing as the 5th wing without looking way out of their comfort zone) who are available and have a higher ceiling than Simmons at a reasonable deal? I can't think of one.

[DAF86]

Simmons shows up big in big games. The season opener against the champs. The playoffs (against the champs).

He likes the bright lights, a bit like Horry (but a different skillset, of course).

The Spurs don't need guys for the regular season -- they'll be fine. They need players who match up with Golden State and Simmons does that.

Come playoff time he's not a ing pussy like LA that's good enough for me. One of the few we have that can penetrate.

Even in the playoffs he wasn't anything to write home about:

10.5 ppg - 1.9 apg - 0.7 topg - 1.9 rpg - 45 FG% - 35 3P% - 52 TS% - 15 PER - 0.4 OPM - -0.8 DPM - -0.4 PM - 0.1 VORP

So, even at his best Simmons is a mediocre player that isn't even a net positive. Folks need to seriously stop overreacting about a couple of games, tbh.

Simmon's "not ing pussy in the playoffs-step up in big games" best is still pretty bad, tbh.

[DAF86]

Do you know any 20 year old athletic wings who are legitimate NBA players (AKA capable of playing as the 5th wing without looking way out of their comfort zone) who are available and have a higher ceiling than Simmons at a reasonable deal? I can't think of one.

No, but I didn't know Simmons existed either a couple of years ago. There must surely be some D-leaguer out there who's worth taking a flyer on before paying a known mediocre player like Simmons 10 millions a year.

[DAF86]

Those are pretty good numbers. That's about right for $10 million per year. No one's expecting him to be a superstar.

I pretend my 10 million per year guy to at least not be a net negative while on the court, tbh. You know how everyone s on Danny Green? well, he's still more than 2 full points better than Simmons, and he's getting paid 10 millions per year. That's the least you can hope for from a 10 millions per year guy.

[mookie2001]

Who else is gonna sacrifice their body to get to the line? Not Green, Manu or Mills. San Antonio is a Simmons dependent team now, blame those three.

[DAF86]

Who else is gonna sacrifice their body to get to the line? Not Green, Manu or Mills. San Antonio is a Simmons dependent team now, blame those three.

[SAGirl]

Post AllStar break was really bad for Dedmon too.

And he just got 7 million per year in a 2 year deal with a player option from one of the few teams still with cap space and a huge need for a center. Roberson who is a starter got 10 million. He's not getting that much.

Spurs just gave the 6th man contract to Mills.

5 mill per year sounds fair for Simmons in this market. Last offseason he could have gotten a lot more. Right now, it's tougher and him being ball dominant makes it difficult to fit even for bad teams who would rather develop their youngsters. Evans went for 3 million per season...

[cd98]

I'm glad someone is pointing this out. He might evolve into a decent rotation player but his ceiling is pretty low.

Basically the Spurs are Kawhi Leonard, a power forward who can't show up for big games, another over-the-hill power forward, yet another over-the-hill (injured) power forward, an over-the-hill point guard, an over-the-hill shooting guard, and a bunch of end of the bench role players.

Plus at 28, he doesn't have much time in his prime and he's in his prime. Anderson, by comparison, is still years from his prime and has time to improve.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The Spurs will likely get him back for a decent price.