And that JJ is a statistically better player than Manu.
Hollinger also said the Jazz would win the West.
And That doesn't surprise me at all, Hollinger's predictions are based off efficiency. Of course they Hawks would improve if Joe Johnson was replaced with someone who played with the same per minute efficiency Manu plays with for 39 minutes a game and 79 games a year.
I'm sure he will since he was a few votes away from it this year and is just now hitting his prime.
Well, this poll is not even close, as it should.
This poll and these results are RACIST!
Joe was the main reason they took Boston to 7 games in 08.
I doubt the spurs in 08 would have done that.
You can't blame Manu for anything that happened in 08.
^
Joe Johnson, it's a no brainer for me.
This depends on what you mean by "better'.
Over the span of their careers
In terms of accomplishments, they are pretty much even. Joe Johnson got into a few all star games, was the leader of the team. Ginobili put on a show in the 05 playoffs, an all star game, a 6MoY, and an All-NBA 3rd team honour. It really depends on how you look at it, there are +s and -s for each.
When you look at the numbers, most people would choose JJ, because he's got more pts, rebounds and assists. But a closer look at the number reveals that
a) Ginobili plays a LOT less minutes over their career. An argument could be made that Ginobili would have broken down if he played JJ minutes, or that Joe Johnson would have gone all out every game if he played Ginobili minutes.
b) JJ spent half his career in the teams with one of the fastest paces in the league, while Ginobili spent his whole career in one of the slowest.
The great thing is that JJ entered the league in 01-02 season, while Ginobili in 02-03, and that JJ hit his stride in the 03-04 season, while Ginobili did it a year after. So the numbers in terms of "ramp up" time is two seasons for both, making an easier comparison.
For career numbers:
Ginobili: 14.7 pts (45.4 FG%, 37.6 3PT%, and 82.1 FT%), 4.1 reb, and 3.6 ast.
Johnson: 17.2 pts (44.1 FG%, 37.1 PT%, 78.9 FT%), 4.2 reb, and 4.4 ast.
This looks like Johnson has it done hands down, but when we do per 48 minutes numbers, we see the following that:
Ginobili:
- >20 pt/48 mins in 6 out of 7 seasons, including >25 in 5 seasons, and >30 in one season.
- >5 reb/48 min in all 7 seasons, >6 in 6, >7 in 5, and >8 in 1.
- > 6 ast/48 in 6 out of 7 seasons, with 1 almost hitting 7
Johnson
- > 20 pts /48min in 5 out of 8 seasons, >25 in 3 seasons, with a high of almost 29.
- > 5 reb/48 min in 6 out of 8, >6, in 2, high of 6.4 (rookie)
- > 5 ast/48 in 5 out of 8, >6 in 3 out of 8, and >7 in two out of 8 (high 7.7)
From that regard, it seems like GInobili’s statistical production is actually better than Johnson. The numbers also show that Johnson has a significant leap in production after becoming “the man” in Atlanta. This is not uncommon for good players, in which they get better statistical production as the top dog, where as role players like the Devean Georges usually get better statistical production when put on a team with a superstar. I think we should all agree that JJ and MG are both capable of being star players, and being a 2nd banana actually hurts Ginobili’s stats more than it helps.
The advantage of Ginobili takes another jump once you take into account pace factors for either team.
For Ginobili:
- >29pts / 100 possessions for 5 out of 7 seasons, high of 33.9 pts.
- >8 reb / 100 possessions for 5 out of 7 seasons, high of 9.1.
- > 6.8 ast /100 possessions in 6 out of 7 seasons, high of 7.8
- All his lows (19.6, 5.9, and 5.2) comes during his rookie season
For Johnson:
- >29pts /100 possessions out of 3 seasons. He never went more than 21.7 during his PHO/BOS days as a 2nd/3rd/4th banana, and jumped to the 26 to 32 pt range in Atlanta.
- >6 reb/100 possessions for 3 out of 8 seasons, and none over 8
- >6 ast/100 possessions 4 out of 8 seasons, high of 8.5.
Outside of assists, Ginobili has Johnson trumped in every single category, and by a relatively large margin.
During the playoffs, Ginobili was beating Johnson by an even wider margin. Routinely averaging 25/8/5 per 48 minutes in the playoffs, while Johnson’s numbers were around 22/5/4.
Peak
There really isn’t that much of a contest. Ginobili puts up 19.5ppg, 4.8 reb, and 4.5 asts in only 31.1 mpg (30/7.4/7 in 48 mins, and 33.9/8.3/7.8 per 100 possessions), while Johnson needed 41.4 mpg to put up 25 ppg, 4.2 reb and 4.4 ast (30/4.9/5.1 per 48 mins, and 32.2/5.4/5,7 per 100 possessions).
Future
Joe Johnson is only 27, but he has logged many minutes and has one more season than Ginobili. Ginobili has extensive time with the Argentinean basketball team, and has been injured the last two playoffs. One thing of note though, is that Ginobili played only 44 games last year due to injury, but played around 75 games or so a season prior to that. Joe Johnson, OTOH, played 57 games due to injury in 06-07 season, but bounced back and played 82 and 79/season after that. This really depend on how you view Ginobili’s body will hold up the next few seasons.
Personally, I will probably take Joe Johnson for the future, but for the peak and throughout their careers, it seems like Ginobili has the upper hand.
I wonder who wins this poll if Spursfan aren't allowed to vote.
joe johnson by two arms,two legs and a neck
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