Reggie Miller : "LeBron James would make the Lakers a better team than Kobe does"

[Killakobe81]

I dont think kobe is at Mj's level ...I just hate when he is put on a pedestal like no one can "touch" him at this point kobe is not "there" and he may never be ...
But Lebron has a "chance" just like Kobe did but Kobe's time is slippin away ...

LBJ probaly needs to win a le in the next 3 years or he may not be able to pass MJ ...

And rings ARE ALL THAT matter because the stats are meaningless ... to me if sats are all that matter than shaq is better than duncan and dirk better than KG end of story ...
but les MATTER sorry but THEY do ...

Doesnt mean that Dirk is not great or LBJ for NOT having one ...but it cements your legacy

[HarlemHeat37]

Of course les matter from a career list perspective..if you ask me who has had the better career between Kobe and Lebron, of course it's Kobe..that's not the question here, it's about the better player NOW, and it's obviously Lebron..

[ClippersDynasty]

I took out your avatar. Several people thought it was too much.

I can't help the way I look

[tlongII]

Kobe will win his 7th?

[FkLA]

Lebron averages 6.8 assists career. Kobe 4.6 Kobe, other than the forst 2 years where he came off the bench has always averaged around 4 or 5 a game so your 3 assists comment is total fabrication on your part. If your going to hate... at least hate with facts.

Why career? A few years ago Kobe was the better player and none of us "haters" argued otherwise. We're talking about the present, and currently Bron averages 8 apg to Kobe's 5.

The fact that Timmy gets those very same calls didint sit you down talking about Kobe's calls did it. You cannot even follow your own advice!

Timmy gets calls, like any other superstar I wont deny that. I didnt bring up Kobe getting calls to complain about it though like Laker fan did, I brought it to make a point that he has no business talking about Bron getting special treatment when Kobe gets the same perks. I do have to note though that while Duncan does get some calls he doesnt get nearly as many as Bron, Kobe, and Wade do. Those 3 players are in a class of their own as far as getting whistles go.

Do you even watch Laker games other than the few on national tv every year? Kobe has been the leading assist man on the team for the decade. Not even close? Lebron averages 2 assists more per game in a system in which he has his hands on the ball 80% of the time in playmaking mode. Kobe plays in the triangle where ball movement is required. Yes, he gets out of that mode and has to be reminded every so often but to call LBJ a playmaker and Kobe not is just pure ignorance.

I never said Kobe wasnt a playmaker, if you notice I even said I think he has the tools to be just as good of a playmaker as Bron. His problem is that thats never been him, he gets more satisfaction out of scoring. Also your whole triangle offense to Bron 1 on 5 offense comparison proves the point, Bron has to create and facilitate for his team. Kobe can get assists off of the system itself.

gotta love this.... he points out 4 players and uses nicknames given them do as a diss to thier qualities.

Whats your point? Doesnt change the fact that those four players are better than the Cavs 2nd best player. Or would you actually take Mo Williams over Pau, Bynum, Odom, or Artest?

[Killakobe81]

Having good shooters and having talent are two completely different things. Those same shooters that are thriving with Bron would see their percentages drop without Bron drawing the defense on him. That is like saying that the pre-2005 Spurs (before Parker and Ginobili emerged as all-stars) were full of talent because the shooters that surrounded Duncan were continuously among the league leaders in 3 pt%. It makes no sense.

As far as talent goes, what Bron has and what Kobe has is not even comparable...Kobe has 4 players on his team that are more talented than the Cavs second best player. Lebron is leading his team to the best record out East and only a matter of time before it becomes the best in the league with less, there's no disputing that. Statistically he is better, his team is right up there as well despite having less talent. I dont get how these Laker homers have the audacity to still hang on to the notion that Kobe is better.

BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY CARE about les ...I know you guys have 4 but let me school you young buck ...you guys are the "new money" this decade has taught you a bit aout winning but because the recent past is still fresh ...you still act more like the loser franchise fan-base than the "old money" elite like the Celts and Lakers.
Case in point many of the vet Spur fans would argue the same LBJ cases being made now that the Admiral the best center but his coach and team let him down but all the while what he REALLY needed was Tim to lead hm to a le.
For all the spur fans who hate on Kobe he did more for all his 4 rings than David ever did for his ...but i don't see you tin' on David.

Rings matter and yall could cry stats (isnt that what kobe fans used to do 81 scoring le, blah blah) , PER usage rate but Id rather have the rings ....

Dont get me wrong Im not saying rondo or TP are BETTER than C3P or Dwill because they have rings, but Neither of those guys are LEADING their teams anyway ...
BUT if you want to be the best they have to win one otherwise their cieling is John stockton or Jkidd
The best ever Magic, Isiah and even Chauncey have theirs ...

[Killakobe81]

Before kobe won the le last year I would never even consider hhim in the same class as Magic ...even though i dont agre with the Shaq coattails crap cuz i watched every game of the 3 peat ...he wasnt the leader of the team stats wise or leadership (and in some ways neither was Shaq) Phil was ...

But the past 2 seasons he has changed is he still prone to take ill-advised shots? Yes and I HATE when he does it ...BUT those that says he is on same level of Joe Johnson roy etc are idiots ...

[Killakobe81]

Of course les matter from a career list perspective..if you ask me who has had the better career between Kobe and Lebron, of course it's Kobe..that's not the question here, it's about the better player NOW, and it's obviously Lebron..

You maybe right ...but a ring is needed to validate that ...he is the best player that has not yet won a le THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT ...

[FkLA]

I dont disagree with this. But people need not to dismiss the Cavs team outside of Lebron. They already have a solid foundation there. Adding a great player (Wade, Lebron, Kobe, take your pick) with that cast is a winning formula regardless. So let's not act (not you) that that team's chances of being successful minus Lebron is non existent.

I neither said nor suggested those shooters were better than Gasol, Odom, Artest, and Bynum. I merely challenged your contention that I bolded.

I do think Kobe has more talent on his team. But, I also think LeBron has pretty good talent on his. Not the same as the Lakers or the Celtics, but very good talent, and talent that suits LeBron. Not that he couldn't play with two big post players, but that would also change LeBron's game. He wouldn't attack the rim nearly as much. He wouldn't push the ball in transition as much. Right now, he has Shaq who is limited and doesn't demand as many touches as he used to. Then he has Varejao who doesn't require touches and Z who shoots jumpers. That suits his skill set and what he likes to do pretty well. Now, talent-wise, you absolutely take Gasol and Bynum. But, some talk about LeBron's teammates as if they aren't good at all. That's not true. They may not be top 5 or top 10 players at their positions, but he has a few very good teammates and several solid role playing teammates who play those roles well.

I agree with you guys when you say that Bron's cast is nowhere near as bad as some people make it seem. They certainly arent scrubs and are more than respectable, they also compliment Lebron's game nicely. I just think that as far as talent goes they simply are not comparable to Kobe's teammates.

Also RsxPimp, regarding the whole plug a superstar in place of Bron and the results are the same...thats arguable. Kobe from before Pau arrived, had Odom as his second best player. Is that any worse than Mo Williams? He had Mihm and Kwame putting up similar production to what Big Z and Shaq are putting up right now. He had Caron Butler as a swingman, a solid defensive player and better offensive player than A. Parker. I dont think Kobe's team was better than what Bron has currently, but there also isnt an astronomical difference in talent. Bron's team currently is arguably the best in the league, Kobe's Lakers back than where nowhere close to being that. I know this is hypothetical , but so is your suggestion that Kobe on the Cavs would lead a less talented team to the same results. Like I said its arguable.

FkLA is a god awful poster.

Oh haiii dirk4mvp

[Killakobe81]

SO let me ask this honestly ...so LBJ is the best ...best on stats etc.
SO Dirk is better than Duncan?
Would ANYONE here EXCEPT HOMER MAVS fans take Dirk over Duncan? AFTR I like dirk he is uber clutch (reg season) but duncan has done this in the FINALS until dirk wins one I STILL take Timmy Can dirk CONSISTENTLY put up better numbers? no doubt. but in the same vein I take Kobe still ...not saying his better cuz that is subjective but until LBJ wins it all ...

For 2012 I take dirk and LBJ ...cuz duncan and Kobe will be 2 years older ...

[FkLA]

BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY CARE about les ...I know you guys have 4 but let me school you young buck ...you guys are the "new money" this decade has taught you a bit aout winning but because the recent past is still fresh ...you still act more like the loser franchise fan-base than the "old money" elite like the Celts and Lakers.
Case in point many of the vet Spur fans would argue the same LBJ cases being made now that the Admiral the best center but his coach and team let him down but all the while what he REALLY needed was Tim to lead hm to a le.
For all the spur fans who hate on Kobe he did more for all his 4 rings than David ever did for his ...but i don't see you tin' on David.

Rings matter and yall could cry stats (isnt that what kobe fans used to do 81 scoring le, blah blah) , PER usage rate but Id rather have the rings ....

Dont get me wrong Im not saying rondo or TP are BETTER than C3P or Dwill because they have rings, but Neither of those guys are LEADING their teams anyway ...
BUT if you want to be the best they have to win one otherwise their cieling is John stockton or Jkidd
The best ever Magic, Isiah and even Chauncey have theirs ...

Rings matter, but lets be honest its kind of re ed to use it as the sole basis. Especially when the disparity of the teammates is so obvious...there is no way that we can just ignore supporting casts they have to be taken into account. And for the record I do not think Roy, Joe Johnson, or Downtown Devin Brown are on par with Kobe. Kobe is still the 2nd best player in the game.

Also Chauncey has no business being put in the same class as Magic or Isiah.

[Donkeybong]

I agree with you guys when you say that Bron's cast is nowhere near as bad as some people make it seem. They certainly arent scrubs and are more than respectable, they also compliment Lebron's game nicely. I just think that as far as talent goes they simply are not comparable to Kobe's teammates.

Also RsxPimp, regarding the whole plug a superstar in place of Bron and the results are the same...thats arguable. Kobe from before Pau arrived, had Odom as his second best player. Is that any worse than Mo Williams? He had Mihm and Kwame putting up similar production to what Big Z and Shaq are putting up right now. He had Caron Butler as a swingman, a solid defensive player and better offensive player than A. Parker. I dont think Kobe's team was better than what Bron has currently, but there also isnt an astronomical difference in talent. Bron's team currently is arguably the best in the league, Kobe's Lakers back than where nowhere close to being that. I know this is hypothetical , but so is your suggestion that Kobe on the Cavs would lead a less talented team to the same results. Like I said its arguable.



Oh haiii dirk4mvp

Did you seriously just compare Big Z and Shaq to Mihm and Kwame Brown?

[FkLA]

SO let me ask this honestly ...so LBJ is the best ...best on stats etc.
SO Dirk is better than Duncan?
Would ANYONE here EXCEPT HOMER MAVS fans take Dirk over Duncan? AFTR I like dirk he is uber clutch (reg season) but duncan has done this in the FINALS until dirk wins one I STILL take Timmy Can dirk CONSISTENTLY put up better numbers? no doubt. but in the same vein I take Kobe still ...not saying his better cuz that is subjective but until LBJ wins it all ...

For 2012 I take dirk and LBJ ...cuz duncan and Kobe will be 2 years older ...

Dirk's stats arent even better, he scores more points thats it. He also has the fact that he is an average defender while Duncan is an all-nba defender going against him. Thats not the case in the Bron-Kobe comparison, therefore I dont really see it the same way.

Did you seriously just compare Big Z and Shaq to Mihm and Kwame Brown?

Yessir. I compared their production. Go back and check their numbers compared to what Big Z and Shaq are currently putting up. In case yall havent noticed Shaq is no longer the player that terrorized the league and Big Z is nowhere near being the all-star he once was.

[Killakobe81]

Rings matter, but lets be honest its kind of re ed to use it as the sole basis. Especially when the disparity of the teammates is so obvious...there is no way that we can just ignore supporting casts they have to be taken into account. And for the record I do not think Roy, Joe Johnson, or Downtown Devin Brown are on par with Kobe. Kobe is still the 2nd best player in the game.

Also Chauncey has no business being put in the same class as Magic or Isiah.

I agree he is more in line with Parker or rondo BUT he did FAR more for his team winning a le trhan either of the two ...my point is he has lead his team to a le as it's best player something C3p or Dwill have not come close to doing of COURSE supporting casts matter...but the BEST aLWAYS have rings ...

I dare anyone that can argue aNYONE was DEFINITIVELY the best player without a ring ...even MJ BEFORE he won was the best but he needed the rings to validate it ...some still argued Bird, Magic or Isiah. Once he won it was unanimous to most

WHY SHOULD LEBRON get this pass? Maybe Im old-school but Magic and Bird Passed it to Isiah who passed it to Mj who passed it to Hakeem the MJ took it back it was shared by Shaq/Kobe/Tim ...to have the torch as the Best you need to repeat or at least win every other year like Tim i make the exception for duncan ...
the one and ones? Pierce, KG, Wade Billups they above the ringless but they can NOT be considered the BEST

Name me the best players in aNY sport they win rings and until they do to me they are suspect even Barry Sanders, Karl Malone Marino and charles Barkley

[Killakobe81]

Dirk's stats arent even better, he scores more points thats it. He also has the fact that he is an average defender while Duncan is an all-nba defender going against him. Thats not the case in the Bron-Kobe comparison, therefore I dont really see it the same way.



Yessir. I compared their production. Go back and check their numbers compared to what Big Z and Shaq are currently putting up. In case yall havent noticed Shaq is no longer the player that terrorized the league and Big Z is nowhere near being the all-star he once was.

Lebron is nOT a great defender and although Dirk is no duncan he has improved ...

OK lets use howard more blocks, rebounds FG% than duncan is he better?
I STILL take Duncan.
Dwight is the Lebron of big men but I take the champion everytime until he wins one ...in the Finals Gasol did a decent job on Dwight ...could he do that with Ducan? umm no!

[Metheny]

ahh..just like its clear that Lebron is a better player then Jordan right?

Is this some kind of joke?


hes not on the same level

[FkLA]

I agree he is more in line with Parker or rondo BUT he did FAR more for his team winning a le trhan either of the two ...my point is he has lead his team to a le as it's best player something C3p or Dwill have not come close to doing of COURSE supporting casts matter...but the BEST aLWAYS have rings ...

I dare anyone that can argue aNYONE was DEFINITIVELY the best player without a ring ...even MJ BEFORE he won was the best but he needed the rings to validate it ...some still argued Bird, Magic or Isiah. Once he won it was unanimous to most

WHY SHOULD LEBRON get this pass? Maybe Im old-school but Magic and Bird Passed it to Isiah who passed it to Mj who passed it to Hakeem the MJ took it back it was shared by Shaq/Kobe/Tim ...to have the torch as the Best you need to repeat or at least win every other year like Tim i make the exception for duncan ...
the one and ones? Pierce, KG, Wade Billups they above the ringless but they can NOT be considered the BEST

Name me the best players in aNY sport they win rings and until they do to me they are suspect even Barry Sanders, Karl Malone Marino and charles Barkley

I understand that approach man, especially since you previously stated that you held Kobe to the same standard and didnt put him in the same class as Magic until he won as the alpha dog in 09'. But cant say I agree with it completely, especially when supporting casts are factored in. Considering the teammates Bron has had, and for him to have reached the Finals once already along with having the best record last year and ECF appearance, plus what he is doing this season...its pretty impressive. Not on par with what Kobe's Lakers have accomplished, but still pretty impressive given the talent Cleveland has surrounded him with.

As far as Chauncey goes, he was the best player on that Pistons team...but by a hair. He doesnt get the same credit as say Duncan, Kobe (09), or Wade get because he isnt really an elite player. That Pistons team was more of a complete team, rather than these other teams that had a clear cut superstar as their leader...arguments could even be made for both Rip and Big Ben being the best player on that team. Rasheed Wallace was an all-star too and Tayshaun was a borderline all-star and his work on Kobe in the 04' Finals was key to that series.

[Metheny]

He averaged 22/9/6, shot 49% from the field, was named All Star Game MVP, finished 3rd in League MVP voting, led a team full of scrubs to 55 regular season wins and a first round playoff series win, and took a pretty good New York Knicks team to 7 games.

A tad bit more than "nothing."

Scottie was a great player dont get me wrong but hes not in jordans league birds league or magics league as ppl mistakenly always say he was a major player as if jordan played with a shaq lvl player or duncan lvl player

[mystargtr34]

SO let me ask this honestly ...so LBJ is the best ...best on stats etc.
SO Dirk is better than Duncan?
Would ANYONE here EXCEPT HOMER MAVS fans take Dirk over Duncan? AFTR I like dirk he is uber clutch (reg season) but duncan has done this in the FINALS until dirk wins one I STILL take Timmy Can dirk CONSISTENTLY put up better numbers? no doubt. but in the same vein I take Kobe still ...not saying his better cuz that is subjective but until LBJ wins it all ...

For 2012 I take dirk and LBJ ...cuz duncan and Kobe will be 2 years older ...

What are you trying to say? That Dirk has better all-around stats than Duncan?

[Metheny]

What are you trying to say? That Dirk has better all-around stats than Duncan?

I think thats what hes trying to say however hes really dumb and doesn't realise hes comparing one of the top 10 players of all time to some choke artist chump that is still recovering from the fact that he has won 1 MVP award and is satisfied with that

[hater]

SO let me ask this honestly ...so LBJ is the best ...best on stats etc.
SO Dirk is better than Duncan?
Would ANYONE here EXCEPT HOMER MAVS fans take Dirk over Duncan? AFTR I like dirk he is uber clutch (reg season) but duncan has done this in the FINALS until dirk wins one I STILL take Timmy Can dirk CONSISTENTLY put up better numbers? no doubt. but in the same vein I take Kobe still ...not saying his better cuz that is subjective but until LBJ wins it all ...

For 2012 I take dirk and LBJ ...cuz duncan and Kobe will be 2 years older ...

are you comparing Dirk to today's DUncan or young Duncan? Dirk vs. young Duncan is garbage. Dirk vs. today's Duncan is pretty much on same level DIrk better offensive player, Duncan better defensive.

I am comparing today's Lebron vs. today's Kobe. Lebron is clearly better. take the homer glasses off.


And could someone tell me what is in Kobe's police report? what did he do?

[Killakobe81]

I understand that approach man, especially since you previously stated that you held Kobe to the same standard and didnt put him in the same class as Magic until he won as the alpha dog in 09'. But cant say I agree with it completely, especially when supporting casts are factored in. Considering the teammates Bron has had, and for him to have reached the Finals once already along with having the best record last year and ECF appearance, plus what he is doing this season...its pretty impressive. Not on par with what Kobe's Lakers have accomplished, but still pretty impressive given the talent Cleveland has surrounded him with.

As far as Chauncey goes, he was the best player on that Pistons team...but by a hair. He doesnt get the same credit as say Duncan, Kobe (09), or Wade get because he isnt really an elite player. That Pistons team was more of a complete team, rather than these other teams that had a clear cut superstar as their leader...arguments could even be made for both Rip and Big Ben being the best player on that team. Rasheed Wallace was an all-star too and Tayshaun was a borderline all-star and his work on Kobe in the 04' Finals was key to that series.

Great post you make some great points. ANd i fully expect LBJ to be the best player I just feel you have to win it that's all. Day in and day out LBJ is far moreimpressive than Kobe...withthe highlight blocks, dunks and dimes.

But as Herm says you play to win the game and the 4th winning game of the FINALS is the ultimate game and LBJ hasnt done it yet. I think he will sooner rather thamn later and when he does especially twice he will get all the respect due to him ...

[Killakobe81]

are you comparing Dirk to today's DUncan or young Duncan? Dirk vs. young Duncan is garbage. Dirk vs. today's Duncan is pretty much on same level DIrk better offensive player, Duncan better defensive.

I am comparing today's Lebron vs. today's Kobe. Lebron is clearly better. take the homer glasses off.


And could someone tell me what is in Kobe's police report? what did he do?

WE were talking about NOW read the posts and I SAID I WOULD STILL take Duncan ...

[anakha]

The guy who made the statement in the OP is the same guy who, in the recently-concluded game, just said about a Rasheed Wallace three attempt:

"It was a good look it just looked like Wallace was 3 feet farther back than he would've liked."

The shot was an airball wide left.

/thread

[hater]

WE were talking about NOW read the posts and I SAID I WOULD STILL take Duncan ...

good for you. I would take Lebron over KObe 100 times out of 100