Spurs Select F Jeremy Sochan with the 9th Pick in the 2022 NBA Draft

[KobesAchilles]

50/5 isn't even MLE money. I bet Sochan would get plenty of MLE offers if he makes it free agency. If other teams had cap space they would offer at least 75/4 imo.

I would be very happy if the Spurs extend him for 80/5, and 90/5 would still be good. 100/5 is about the breakeven point for me.

You’d be happy if the Spurs got ripped off? No team is going to offer him that amount of money. Even with the MLE it wouldn’t be a 4 year deal. Maybe 2. But I would love to have a list of teams that would pay 20 million a year for 11 points, 7 rebounds, and non existent shooting. Dude is making half a 3 a game. Seriously the dude can’t shoot and it’s getting worse. And you think there will be teams lining up for him? Which teams?

If we gave a role player a 5 year deal I would be pissed. 3 year 36 at best.

[dn0774]

My biggest gripe with Sochan is that we're in year 3 and it still feels like he doesn't have any spots on the floor where he can credibly shoot from. If its not Sochan getting a dunk, the defense just isn't concerned about it. I was watching the Magic feed of the game on Saturday and at one point Sochan got an open push shot in the lane from about 8 feet, basically a layup for an NBA player, and he scuffed it badly and the Magic announcers went kind of quiet, seemingly surprised.

Sochans offensive comp is often considered to be Aaron Gordon, but Gordan actually has multiple spots on the floor and in the key that you feel like he can reliably shoot from and defenses treat it as such. Sochan doesn't have that and it is getting worse as defenses respect him less and less, the word is out around the league that he is a complete non-shooter and doesn't even want to shoot and when he does it looks funky.

Please don't overpay this guy, offer an extension commensurate with a 7th/8th man and play him in that role. He hasn't meaningfully improved since his rookie year despite getting lots of playing time/usage. He isn't the next Draymond, he isn't even the next Aaron Gordon. I do think with the right coaching and scheme he can be an effective player and have big games on occasion.

[Kevin]

Sochan needs to be shopped this summer. The moment he gets paid he'll be another KJ/Dev contract. Plus he doesn't fit with Castle.

I've learned my lesson about paying offensive versus defensive role players. Let someone else do it. Sochan plus a pick in the 10ish range should land a nice player in theory.

[LeBowen]

My biggest gripe with Sochan is that we're in year 3 and it still feels like he doesn't have any spots on the floor where he can credibly shoot from. If its not Sochan getting a dunk, the defense just isn't concerned about it. I was watching the Magic feed of the game on Saturday and at one point Sochan got an open push shot in the lane from about 8 feet, basically a layup for an NBA player, and he scuffed it badly and the Magic announcers went kind of quiet, seemingly surprised.

Exactly my issue as I mentioned in the previous post.
It feels like opponents are baiting him into dribbling the ball into the paint because they know he's not reliable outside the restricted area.
He falls for it every single time, gets into the paint and doesn't know what to do because he's got low processing power and didn't think of how the situation can play out before he tried attacking the paint.

And a lot of those dunks are by design because he's the least threatening player on the floor and you have to give something up.

Sochans offensive comp is often considered to be Aaron Gordon, but Gordan actually has multiple spots on the floor and in the key that you feel like he can reliably shoot from and defenses treat it as such. Sochan doesn't have that and it is getting worse as defenses respect him less and less, the word is out around the league that he is a complete non-shooter and doesn't even want to shoot and when he does it looks funky.

Gordon? We'd kill to have Gordon.
One of the best athletes in the league even now after some injuries and he can actually shoot the ball. Nothing special, but he's at 34% on almost 3 attempts since he got to Denver.

Please don't overpay this guy, offer an extension commensurate with a 7th/8th man and play him in that role. He hasn't meaningfully improved since his rookie year despite getting lots of playing time/usage. He isn't the next Draymond, he isn't even the next Aaron Gordon. I do think with the right coaching and scheme he can be an effective player and have big games on occasion.

I often wonder how would people rate Jeremy if it wasn't for Rodman cosplay, if he looked like an average NBA wing.

Imo, the most sensible decision would be not to extend him this summer if he doesn't accept 50 to 60/5 and let him fight for a better contract next season.
Yeah, he'll be RFA and some teams could offer more, but that's the risk I'd rather take than have another overpaid player on the roster, as Kevin said.

[scott]

We pulled Lonnie's QO when he was a RFA, and no one was really too upset about it... honestly, is Sochan's developmental track any better than what Lonnie showed in his time here? They are completely different players, but does anyone feel better about Jeremy's future than you did about Lonnie's midway through his 3rd season?

That's kind of where I am at this point.

[Knoxxx]

I don't even think his 7-0 wingspan is a trustworthy number. Was he ever measured at a combine? Or official fiba camp numbers?

People get stuff wrong with that all the time. Dejounte only had an on record measurement of 6-9.5 but lots of people would go on and on about a 7 foot wingspan for him

Not that a +4 on his height would be surprising, just doesn't pass the eye test for me

You got me it’s 6-11.75. As far as the height, yeah I think he dodge combine measurements and the 6-8” looks like an in shoes height. I can’t imagine he’s much over 6-7” barefoot. For that reason I think he dodged an official measurement for the draft.

[LeBowen]

We pulled Lonnie's QO when he was a RFA, and no one was really too upset about it... honestly, is Sochan's developmental track any better than what Lonnie showed in his time here? They are completely different players, but does anyone feel better about Jeremy's future than you did about Lonnie's midway through his 3rd season?

That's kind of where I am at this point.

Two completely different cases, tbh.
Lonnie was someone who had shown flashes in every aspect of the game, had some amazing performances, but it was obvious he'll never put it together.

Jeremy has been consistent, but in my opinion he hasn't shown anything if we're talking high ceiling. His best game was when he played great defense on Ant and that's his role.
A potentially very good point of attack defender and a solid rebounder who's a negative on offense. Solid situational player to have, but how much is that player worth in current CBA?
If Fox/Castle/Wemby are our starters for the next 5 or so years, that automatically excludes Jeremy from even being in consideration for the starting lineup. We need wings who can shoot and there's simply no going around it.

[Seventyniner]

We pulled Lonnie's QO when he was a RFA, and no one was really too upset about it... honestly, is Sochan's developmental track any better than what Lonnie showed in his time here? They are completely different players, but does anyone feel better about Jeremy's future than you did about Lonnie's midway through his 3rd season?

That's kind of where I am at this point.

Sochan's archetype is far rarer than Lonnie's, so average production given that archetype is worth more money.

A 100/5 extension starts at $17M and would only be 10% of the cap when it kicks in, equivalent to $14M now. Going by % of the cap, that's less than Keldon is making now and half of Vassell.

I'm an optimist, though. I think Castle's shooting will improve enough that if the Spurs can get a better version of Champangie, a lineup of Fox/Castle/[Champ upgrade]/Sochan/Wemby will have adequate shooting. Three shooters on the floor generally isn't enough, but five isn't necessary.

[Light]

Exactly my issue as I mentioned in the previous post.
It feels like opponents are baiting him into dribbling the ball into the paint because they know he's not reliable outside the restricted area.
He falls for it every single time, gets into the paint and doesn't know what to do because he's got low processing power and didn't think of how the situation can play out before he tried attacking the paint.

The problem is that he's playing out of position and having to go against bigger players in the paint. His (limited) ability to post up players and get to his turnaround fadeaway is pretty much neutered now.

[scott]

Two completely different cases, tbh.
Lonnie was someone who had shown flashes in every aspect of the game, had some amazing performances, but it was obvious he'll never put it together.

Of course they are completely different... but as you said, Lonnie has shown flashes, and had some amazing performances... moreso than maybe Jeremy has to this point. Was it more obvious by halfway through Lonnie's 3rd season that he'd never put it together than it is for Sochan? What are the odds "Sochan puts it together"? Have we seen any definitive signs that he will? What are they?

Jeremy has been consistent, but in my opinion he hasn't shown anything if we're talking high ceiling. His best game was when he played great defense on Ant and that's his role.
A potentially very good point of attack defender and a solid rebounder who's a negative on offense. Solid situational player to have, but how much is that player worth in current CBA?
If Fox/Castle/Wemby are our starters for the next 5 or so years, that automatically excludes Jeremy from even being in consideration for the starting lineup. We need wings who can shoot and there's simply no going around it.

Yeah, sounds like Sochan is just a role player. MLE deal or nothing at this point for him, tbh.

[rascal]

Yeah, sounds like Sochan is just a role player. MLE deal or nothing at this point for him, tbh.

Yes, this is his third year and he has been given a big chance with starters minutes and chances to improve his game in different roles.

Most teams would not have given him the minutes and opportunities he's gotten with the Spurs. Spurs need to see him as a role player who comes off the bench and not over pay him.

[ambchang]

I’ve been the biggest sochan fanboy around and even if he pissed if he gets 5/100 at this point. The last few weeks have been huge disappointments because he’s again being played out of position. Backup C? What the is that? Stick him at PF, get him to cut to the lane, rebound, defend. That’s it. Why complicate things?

[Extra Stout]

Sochan is a terrific bench PF and should be paid accordingly. If someone wants to pay him more in the hopes he becomes something more, wish him well.

[RC_Drunkford]

I’ve been the biggest sochan fanboy around and even if he pissed if he gets 5/100 at this point. The last few weeks have been huge disappointments because he’s again being played out of position. Backup C? What the is that? Stick him at PF, get him to cut to the lane, rebound, defend. That’s it. Why complicate things?

It‘s the Spurs way. We have to play players out of position so CP3 is happy.

[Seventyniner]

Looks like I've got the unpopular take this time. You guys do realize that 90/5 is basically MLE money, right? Sochan would easily get a MLE offer if he hits free agency, even if he doesn't improve over the next season plus.

The Spurs aren't going to need their forwards to be big scorers with Wemby/Fox/Castle as the core. Sochan doesn't provide any shooting but he can contribute in many other areas while having a low usage rate.

[SpursBills]

Looks like I've got the unpopular take this time. You guys do realize that 90/5 is basically MLE money, right? Sochan would easily get a MLE offer if he hits free agency, even if he doesn't improve over the next season plus.

The Spurs aren't going to need their forwards to be big scorers with Wemby/Fox/Castle as the core. Sochan doesn't provide any shooting but he can contribute in many other areas while having a low usage rate.

I've defended Sochan more than most here, and I still have high hopes for him. But with the new cap rules, there is an emphasis on not getting yourself into bad long term contracts. I think he can be more in the future, but for now Sochan is a one way specialist who excels at primarily perimeter defense and cutting for easy baskets. That doesn't mean he's useless by any means, and he's still got a long runway. But as of right now it looks like a tricky fit. I've said before the best comp right now for his contract is Okongwu from 2 years ago - top 10 defense-first pick best used as a backup big on their current teams.

Per 100 possessions during their 3rd year:
Sochan: 21.5p/13r/5a/1.6st/1.5bl on 56% eFG
Okongwu: 20.5p/15r/2.1a/1.4st/2.6bl on 64% eFG
Neither has a 3 pointer to speak of

Okongwu slightly older, slightly better DPM compared to Sochan

Okongwu got 4/62 at the time which was a reasonable contract, I don't honestly see an argument for Sochan getting a significantly better contract as of this time - certainly if in the next 4 years he develops a consistent 3 pointer and improves his handles, his age 25 contract will be far more valuable but at this time 16 a year is probably market value honestly.

[KobesAchilles]

Looks like I've got the unpopular take this time. You guys do realize that 90/5 is basically MLE money, right? Sochan would easily get a MLE offer if he hits free agency, even if he doesn't improve over the next season plus.

The Spurs aren't going to need their forwards to be big scorers with Wemby/Fox/Castle as the core. Sochan doesn't provide any shooting but he can contribute in many other areas while having a low usage rate.

It’s not that it’s unpopular it’s just not seen as logical from my standpoint. There are 3 main questions/flaws with your premise:

1. you keep saying he will easily get the MLE from other teams. What other teams? Which team will be like we need to pay $20 million a year for a mediocre big man who can’t shoot the ball. And even if some team ( I seriously doubt it) would offer him that why would we start our offer there? That’s just stupid business. Let him hit the market and see what he’s worth. Then make a decision from there.

2. How does his game fit alongside Wemby at all? Explain What he brings to the table that makes you think him and Wemby will fit together going forward. Bc offensively he is unplayable next to Wemby. And don’t just say he will magically learn to shoot 3s. He’s making less than half a 3 a game. He isn’t going to be a great shooter next year.

Also why would we sign him to a 5 year deal? Explain what he has shown that makes us want him for the next 5 years. That’s is seriously a long time to have a player. Especially a player who doesn’t fit at all with Wemby.

[Seventyniner]

Okongwu got 4/62 at the time which was a reasonable contract, I don't honestly see an argument for Sochan getting a significantly better contract as of this time - certainly if in the next 4 years he develops a consistent 3 pointer and improves his handles, his age 25 contract will be far more valuable but at this time 16 a year is probably market value honestly.

It's funny that you bring up Okongwu as a comp. His contract started at 10% of the cap, which is exactly where a 100/5 or 77/4 contract for Sochan would start.

Okongwu's contract is a bit smaller overall because his annual raises are only 7.1% instead of the maximum 8.5%.

[Seventyniner]

It’s not that it’s unpopular it’s just not seen as logical from my standpoint. There are 3 main questions/flaws with your premise:

1. you keep saying he will easily get the MLE from other teams. What other teams? Which team will be like we need to pay $20 million a year for a mediocre big man who can’t shoot the ball. And even if some team ( I seriously doubt it) would offer him that why would we start our offer there? That’s just stupid business. Let him hit the market and see what he’s worth. Then make a decision from there.

2. How does his game fit alongside Wemby at all? Explain What he brings to the table that makes you think him and Wemby will fit together going forward. Bc offensively he is unplayable next to Wemby. And don’t just say he will magically learn to shoot 3s. He’s making less than half a 3 a game. He isn’t going to be a great shooter next year.

Also why would we sign him to a 5 year deal? Explain what he has shown that makes us want him for the next 5 years. That’s is seriously a long time to have a player. Especially a player who doesn’t fit at all with Wemby.

1) Teams offering full MLE contracts to rotation players is not uncommon. It's tricky to project 2026 free agency since there are two drafts, one full offseason, and a trade deadline in between but I could see teams like the Grizzlies, Clippers, Magic, and (lol) Kings offering a full MLE. Even the Thunder are below the tax line and could offer it.
2) Sochan's defense works great with Wemby, and while the offensive fit isn't nearly as seamless I think Sochan can work as a cutter if there's enough spacing with the rest of the lineup. Sochan would shoot few if any threes. That would require Castle becoming a respectable three-point shooter and having a shooting threat at SF so it certainly isn't guaranteed.
3) If the Spurs think he's worth signing to a 4-year contract, adding the 5th year makes sense for the team because the annual raises of 8.5% are less than the anticipated cap raises of 10%. In tems of cap percentage, even a deal with max raise sizes is essentially declining. Sochan could even sign a deal like Okongwu's that doesn't have max raises. And if the Spurs don't think Sochan fits next to Wemby at all then they shouldn't give him an extension period.

[RC_Drunkford]

Sochan is a top 10 isolation defender in the NBA and an elite roll man creating 1.5 PPP. He also shoots a higher percentage from 0-3 feet than some All-Stars. The issue is that he never plays his natural position. His stats going down after a strong start to the season should make it possible for the Spurs to lock him up on a relatively cheap contract. I'd still look for an upgrade as a starting 4 in the offseason, but they should try to extend him.

[Raven]

he needs to return to playing 38 minutes per game or so.

[Mal]

Sochan will get 100/5 min offers. He is just 21, plays good defense, plays multiple positions and is improving every year. He`s got good chemistry with Wemby and Fox. Spurs have issues with coaching being poor, so Sochan`s lack of shooting looks like bigger deal than it really is.

[LeBowen]

He also shoots a higher percentage from 0-3 feet than some All-Stars.

This is such a non-stat because most of his shots are uncontested.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/shooting

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/shots-dash

He's at 66% at 0-5ft range, with 75% of those makes being assisted, 126-189.
18-22 alley-oops, 47-56 dunks.
61-111 on layups, 54%.
Now before you say something about dunks, he doesn't dunk on people and has had just a few contested dunks since he got drafted.
For a 6'9 forward who can't shoot, his finishing needs to be way better and he needs to finish layups others cant if he's to be useful on offense.

The issue is that he never plays his natural position

Agreed, he got completely ed over by all these experiments and which have obviously set him back.

But then again, him playing his natural position makes things way more difficult for everyone else. How many of those passes to wide open Jeremy on the perimeter that amount to nothing have we seen?
Is it worth making everyone uncomfortable on offense just because he's a positive defender? Especially since Castle also fills that POA defender role unless big wings are the matchup?

If we look around the league and try to find non-shooters on forward positions starting for playoff teams, there are very few of them.
Amen is an S-tier athlete which compensates for his lack of shooting. 17/10/5 on 54% FG since he became a starter.
Gordon might have lost some of his athleticism, but is still one of the best athletes in the league and is shooting 41% from 3pt on 2.7 attempts this season.
Jones Jr is at 36% on 2.8 attempts, also jumps out of the building.
Draymond is at 35% on 3.6 attempts this season.
Mobley is at 39% on 3 attempts.

Amen, Giannis and Adebayo (since he was moved to PF with Ware at C) are the only non-shooting forwards starting on playoff teams in the entire league.
Basically unless you're a physical freak you need to shoot the ball as a modern wing.

I still think a top tier coach could make it work, but we don't have on and as long as Mitch is in charge Jeremy is a detriment to the team on offense.
I'd like to keep him on a team-friendly deal, but taking another gamble on a player who needs to figure out a lot of things would be awful.

[exstatic]

I've defended Sochan more than most here, and I still have high hopes for him. But with the new cap rules, there is an emphasis on not getting yourself into bad long term contracts. I think he can be more in the future, but for now Sochan is a one way specialist who excels at primarily perimeter defense and cutting for easy baskets. That doesn't mean he's useless by any means, and he's still got a long runway. But as of right now it looks like a tricky fit. I've said before the best comp right now for his contract is Okongwu from 2 years ago - top 10 defense-first pick best used as a backup big on their current teams.

Per 100 possessions during their 3rd year:
Sochan: 21.5p/13r/5a/1.6st/1.5bl on 56% eFG
Okongwu: 20.5p/15r/2.1a/1.4st/2.6bl on 64% eFG
Neither has a 3 pointer to speak of

Okongwu slightly older, slightly better DPM compared to Sochan

Okongwu got 4/62 at the time which was a reasonable contract, I don't honestly see an argument for Sochan getting a significantly better contract as of this time - certainly if in the next 4 years he develops a consistent 3 pointer and improves his handles, his age 25 contract will be far more valuable but at this time 16 a year is probably market value honestly.

Okongwu was 4-13 in his first 3 seasons. Jeremy is 4-6 in his last 5 games, and is currently shooting 34%. His 45 degree axial tilt is gone.

[John B]

Better outing from Sochan last night. I hate when he hesitates and pass on open shots. But last night seems he’s trying to get his own. He can really be effective on offensive rebounds and put backs with his quick jumps. But when he doesn’t, I’d rather they put Mamu in who’s never shy to send them