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Solid post ES.
This problem is waaaayyy waaaaaaaaay too complicated to have a simple over-arching, extensive solution that covers all bases.
More importantly, a solution that won't create further problems down the road.
The person who figures it out wins the Nobel Peace Prize.
For the cultural issues... I'm drawing a blank. I don't know that white people can serve as any kind of role model. All we can do is support the positive black role models that exist. White churches can work together with black churches on the work they are doing in their own communities. Culture is such an all-encompassing but ungraspable thing... even if we got a handle on how to turn it around it might be 50 years before the efforts pay off.
Another issue is the police. The typical experience a black person has with the police is that they are there to control him, not to protect him. But from the policeman's standpoint, given the crime rate in these neighborhoods, any time he encounters a young black male, odds are two out of three the guy has a criminal record, and are uncomfortably high that there is violence in that criminal record, and the policeman probably is more interested in getting home that evening than buttressing race relations.
Perhaps one thing that could be done would be to refocus drug enforcement away from users and onto dealers. With as dirt-cheap as crack has become, the bigger problem is that everybody is whacked out on it, as opposed to the violent crime it caused because users were robbing people to pay for their fix. Yeah, that's a devastating problem, but throwing the users in jail doesn't make it any better. It's the drug gangs who rule the streets, not the addicts. (Gangbangers are heavily disciplined by their ringleaders if they get caught using.) So as it is now, both the police and the gangs are threats.
I don't know what police departments do as far as community relations go. That would be one of a tedious and thankless task to present oneself to community leaders to hear their complaints, but allegedly it helps. Right now there is no trust.
Solid post ES.
This problem is waaaayyy waaaaaaaaay too complicated to have a simple over-arching, extensive solution that covers all bases.
More importantly, a solution that won't create further problems down the road.
For the cultural issues... I'm drawing a blank. I don't know that white people can serve as any kind of role model. All we can do is support the positive black role models that exist. White churches can work together with black churches on the work they are doing in their own communities. Culture is such an all-encompassing but ungraspable thing... even if we got a handle on how to turn it around it might be 50 years before the efforts pay off.
The drug dealers definitely need to be the ones being chased into jail – but as far as I know they are and have been.Perhaps one thing that could be done would be to refocus drug enforcement away from users and onto dealers.
Have you see any of those National Geographic shows – like the maximum security prison specials? Is seems to me like a of a lot of these guys are caught everyday, the problem is once they see the light of day outside of prison they are putting themselves right back in the business.
Why is it that we expect them to do any different, though?
After all, they came in with corrupt morals, why would we even bother to think that sitting in a jail cell is going to change them?
They need to be educated while in prison and taught new values.
I hate it when people say that they are given a second chance once they are out; let’s be serious here, did they even have a first chance? Is growing up with a crack head for a mom and Gang banger for a dad (if they even had one, that is) really a fair first chance at a normal life?
We shouldn’t act as if they’ve had a first chance. Let’s give these people an education in prison and a new life with new values. Giving them a chance to “convert” into productive citizens and absorb into society is going lower the number of gang members encompassing every race.
With this sort of Prison-Inmate system in place along with a constant and forceful pressure being put on gangs by police, we can eliminate the numbers of gang members in prison lost to conversion while simultaneously destroying the place they came from, leaving them without a trail to back to the place and life they called “home”.
Last edited by Ronaldo McDonald; 06-26-2007 at 06:32 PM.
Role models. Look at the NBA, NFL and MLB. , the sports
page runs a booking column everyday for the gang-bangers that
get busted who should be the role models.
Look at what the 'leaders' of the black community, whoever the
black community is, did to Bill Cosby when he tried to tell it
like it is. Quit acting like a bunch of idiots and join the real
world. Look what they do to Clarance Thomas, a person who
has reached the top of his profession as a Supreme Court
Justice, they call him a Uncle Tom. Their leaders, what a joke,
Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton.
I have no answer to the problem. I just know that all the kids,
white, black or brown or candy striped need to be taught
discipline, at home, in schools and in public. I know that
plenty of people come from poor backgrounds and make it
in life. Many of the people kids look up to only show them
and advertise to them that you gotta have the expensive things
in life. Like 150.00 dollar sneakers. Drink, smoke dope, shot
things up or get shot, around with the groupies and
have kids out of wedlock. And yes our government welfare has
done a lot to ruin the lives of many poor, whites, blacks and
browns.
You want a real little eye opener. One of the lines these kids
use now days to have sex with a girl is: I want you to have
my baby. Just absolutely wonderful, isn't it?
I don't have any answers either.
I'm just sick and tired of being lectured to, threatened with violence, or threatened with slander by Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton if we don't start being more "tolerant" of and "fair" to the black community.
It's getting really, really old.
How about you ignore them instead of obsessing? Works for me.
Did they call you an asshole at the gas station too?
I'm tired of a lot of demagogues on both sides of the political aisle. Why single out black people?
Tell me of another race that has the equivalent of an Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson -- both of whom, I remind you, were serious Democratic contenders for the office of President -- race pimping for them.
And, again, as the thread started, name another race that has consistently and with relative frequency instigated race-based mob violence in the last 40 years.
That's why.
They have a serious cultural problem and, yet, they employ the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons of the world to tell me it's my fault they have a serious cultural problem.
No other race, in my experience, does that.
Hey, maybe all of "them" don't think alike.
So we have maybe 2 'mob attacks' in the last 20 years. That's hardly anything to worry over, much less condemn an entire race for. That's the stuff of bigoted demagouges. Yonivore's posts are straight up 50s segregationist boilerplate...at best.
I think you do your share for the cracka race.Tell me of another race that has the equivalent of an Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson race pimping for them.
You have a lot of misplaced rage.
Jesse Jackson was a contender for President... two decades ago. This was in an era when the Democrats nominated Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis in successive campaigns.
Al Sharpton was about as serious a contender as Dennis Kucinich or Mike Gravel.
We've already established that blacks are the race that has most frequently engaged in mob violence because they are most frequently the race in the USA that has poor people clustered together densely enough to form a mob. Hispanics come in a distant second.
In other countries, where poor or disenfranchised people of a particular race or ethnicity are clustered together densely, we see racial/ethnic riots by Dutch people in Utrecht, Australians in Sydney, Russians from north of St. Petersburg, North Africans in Paris, Pakistanis in London, and Arabs in Palestine, Iraq, and elsewhere. These are but a few examples, and I'm not even getting into all the ethnic wars that went on, even in Europe, well into the 1990's, and continuing today in places like Darfur.
You have a bunch of uneducated, ignorant blacks who listen to race-baiters eager to exploit them for personal profit. These poor people listen to demagogues because they are unsophisticated and easily swayed by smooth talkers. Nobody is making you listen to demagogues. Black demagogues get the most media play because of our fixation on black-white issues.
Just this Sunday, some asshat liberal named Craig Hines in the Houston Chronicle was proclaiming his moral superiority for promoting the utterly inefficacious cause of a Congressional apology for slavery. Doing that would help not one black person in poverty, and would create not one iota of healing. All it would do would be to assuage the "white guilt" of a bunch of navel-gazing liberals. They fawn over clowns like Jackson and Sharpton for the same reason.
So blame the Craig Hineses of the world before you go after a bunch of people in the ghetto.
Black people are ordinary human beings who behave the way ordinary human beings behave when their society is royally f'ed up. It has been royally f'ed up for a long time, and probably will continue to be, because deep-seated cultural dysfunction takes decades to centuries to wring out, even besides the remains of ins utional racism in the US we still have to stamp out.
I certainly get pissed off when some black demagogue says that I am personally accountable for black poverty becuase of centuries of "white racist oppression." If somebody tries to pass that over on me, I will break my (hopefully) general policy of patience, and tell him to go himself and die, because that is really the only appropriate response.
But demagogues aside, I still figure all of us Americans are in it together, because the other 5 to 6 billion people in the world certainly aren't looking to do us any favors, so if there's a group of us that is consistently failing to thrive, rather than just write them off in judgment as a group (as you seem to be looking for an excuse to do), I'd rather intelligent people keep trying to get their minds around the problem and see what can be done to improve it.
And I'm certainly sophisticated enough to understand that with 40 million blacks living in all variety of situations all over the country, one man in Chicago and another in New York are hardly going to speak for any significant number of people. If I want to know what the issues are in the Third Ward, I'll go talk to a pastor down in the Third Ward. And I guarantee you he's not going to be looking to point fingers.
Last edited by Extra Stout; 06-27-2007 at 12:37 PM.
Why Is Everybody Yelling!!
What is the direct connection between Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson and black mob violence? Sharpton and Jackson are race baiters. No . But all they are promoting is an at ude of victimization, not an at ude of violence.
And looking up to public figures who promote the at ude of victimization is not an exclusively black thing.
They're black.
Anyways, this may come as a shock to Yonivore but most African-Americans want the same thing out of life that most members of every other race in the US want: safety, security, health and success for themselves and their family, etc... They work hard, strive to improve their lives, pay their taxes, go to church, volunteer, etc.
At least that's what I've seen. And since we are taking minor observations and using them to characterize an entire race, just as relevant as Yonivore's auto fueling encounter or something that happened 15 years ago.
Before I forget, let's ban firearms ownership for Korean-Americans. Clearly they can't be trusted.
so, the four (perhaps 5 if you count the ATX beating) examples you provided are enough to establish a "consistent" and "relatively frequent" pattern of "race-based mob violence" that can be attributed to the entire race?
I don't see how you can make that leap. Just because 3 of the incidents you cited took place at or near a festival to celebrate Juneteenth doesn't mean that racial bigotry was a factor. We don't know anything about the attacks in Milwaukee and Syracuse except that they were carried out by young people. Surprise, but young people do stupid crap all the time. What we know about the attack in ATX is that a young girl had just been hit by a car before the driver and passenger were attacked. Not to make excuses, but traumatic events like seeing a child being hit by a car might just make some people angry enough to attack someone they think was negligent or at fault.
Granted, the Reginald Denny attack seems to have been clearly motivated by the race of the victim.
Last edited by Oh, Gee!!; 06-27-2007 at 01:49 PM.
This is going to shock Yoni... Of course then he will ramble on that in actuality the GOP is a far better party for African Americans..just not the one's who lynch people after attending a Juneteenth celebration..these people are obviously democrats
Well Dumper, how bout we have a white history month.
A Heterosexual pride day. A white TV Network. How bout
we get all upset being called cracka's, rednecks, racists,
phobic. Except for one thing, we don't have
any of the above. Why, well in the first place there aren't
many you can honestly say are that way. And most of the folks
you put in this category are just plain old Americans who
claim that just being plain old Americans. Like me. I
could care less what race you claim to be. I often
come to close to asking many so called "African Americans"
Oh, and what tribe are you from? Or Mexican Americans,
and what part of Mexico are you from. And Italian
Americans and what part of Italy are you from. I am a
Texan, born, raised and live in Texas. And for your
small mind I am an American. And I do take offense that
you want to try and plant some stupid tag on me that
degrades that fact.
You want to be something other than just a plain old
American then go there and live under their cir stances
and conditions. But damn well don't expect or others
to want to live in other than our American ways. Okay.
You, like I have said in the past, such a twerp. I really
don't know why I let people like you get me upset, but
you sure do.
I have to wonder if some of you on this forum know what
made this country what it is/was. It damn sure wasn't a
bunch of s or whatever country/race hyphenated
named people. It was people who came here, God
fearing, hardworking, not looking for a handout.
People have an innate need to celebrate their heritage, their ancestors. Just because it is celebrated does not mean that people are disloyal or dismissive of the US.
I have to disagree with you ray. I am going to go out on a limb and assume that one or two gay people have immigrated here....
^^And so your point being? I am not putting down gays, they
want to do their thing in the bedroom, fine. Just don't ask me
to support their sexual lifestyle. How bout I ask you to support
mine. You don't know what it is, great, you don't need to know,
just like I don't need to know theirs.
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