Charania: Spurs Have Exploratory Interest In Murray

[SpurSpike]

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That would be hilarious for the Hawks to take Johnson rather than insisting upon Vassell.

Spurs should say no to both, we aren't the desperate ones here Atlanta is. Take advantage of that and offer them a decent package of salary filler and picks, take it or leave it no big deal imo. You only have to beat other teams offers and the only other team that seems to be a threat that can offer decent players and picks are the Pelicans and they have been quiet so far.

[Dejounte]

the goal should be to put together a team capable of winning and getting to the playoffs, while the new draft picks develop in a limited role coming off the bench. Much better recipe than to have a bunch of rookies start just to lose 20 games in a row. I'd also rather keep Keldon, looking at how bad the talent level on our team is, but we will have to give up something if it happens.

Don’t Say This To The “Everyone Over 27 Doesn’t Fit Our Timeline” People. People Think Trotting Out Rookies Year After Year Will Amount To Something As If Letting Them Make Mistake After Mistake Is Healthy For Their Development And That They Will Magically Learn To Be A Winning Team After A Few Years. “Trust The Process” They Say. Bull . Those Teams Only Started To Become Good When Those Teams Added Vets For Their Young Core To Play And Compete For Minutes With. That’s How You Destroy Lottery Talent.

[Dejounte]

You Would Think That In A “Developmental Year” Like This That All The Minutes Our Year 2 And 3 Players Is Good Experience For Their Growth But I’d Argue That It’s Been The Exact Opposite: It Has Stagnated Or Damaged Their Growth Because There Aren’t Any Vets On The Court With Them To Teach Them The Error Of Their Ways And Show Them How To Play The Right Way Instead Of Just Telling Them Like The Coaches Do.

[Kevin]

Keldon for Murray keeps the Spurs books pretty clean so they could still add another star down the road. It all comes down to draft pick compensation.

If I was the Hawks I would want KJ plus the 2025 and 2027 picks.

If I was the Spurs I'd be willing to do KJ plus the 2027 pick and one other pick. Just not sure what that other pick would be be.

[KDKSpurs24]

You Would Think That In A “Developmental Year” Like This That All The Minutes Our Year 2 And 3 Players Is Good Experience For Their Growth But I’d Argue That It’s Been The Exact Opposite: It Has Stagnated Or Damaged Their Growth Because There Aren’t Any Vets On The Court With Them To Teach Them The Error Of Their Ways And Show Them How To Play The Right Way Instead Of Just Telling Them Like The Coaches Do.

Exactly. People might laugh but we need to start taking the same approach Houston did in free agency. Adding some vets (Dejounte would be like put Vanvleet) and add an “enforcer”. It’s done pretty well for them so far except we should be much better because year 2 Wemby is gonna be so much better than Sengun is right now. Definitely a playoff team and it’ll be so much better for development. People who are talking about “fitting a timeline” have no clue because the players may be all young and have a lot of time to develop but they will never develop the right habits if they don’t have vets teaching them out to win!

[Davidicus]

This DJM trader rumor, if true, is fascinating to me as it signals what Spurs FO have concluded after 35 games:

1. Again if the interest is real, it shows that Spurs FO is ready to accelerate Wemby's timeline. Remember early Nov Manu said it will take at least 3 years to play for a championship: "Once people understand the potential, then you can add other pieces from free agency." Pop early Nov mentioned in regards to Wemby's development "I don't want to follow a roadmap because there is none." Preseason Spurs FO quotes were all about lets see what we have and then we'll adjust (mostly in regards to Wemby's development, but also sprinkles of Spurs roster, which are intertwined). Mere interest in bringing back DJM is a tell of their opinion on Wemby today vs game 1.

2. And then if the trade does in fact happen, it will be fascinating to see what they give up. The more they give up, the bigger their confidence in Wemby (although getting a steal in the trade doesnt indicate the opposite).

This trade is not in a vacuum though. It's not like the Spurs are actively shopping for borderline All-Star point guards before the trade deadline. DJM knows the system, a lot of the players, Pop, is still young, has a great contract, and is a very good point guard (we need one of those). The culture stuff I'm not worried about, because if Spurs FO is comfortable with it, then I am, because I personally believe 1. they know much more about the situation than we do, and 2. they wouldn't do anything to jeopardize Wemby's comfort level. If DJM comes at the right price, it's a low-risk situation that can help build this team up.

To echo other posters, rebuild doesn't mean we use every single draft pick we own, keep the good ones, and be super compe ive by 2027. It means something like this - trading for DJM, continuing to develop the young bucks, add a piece or two each year, and be contending by 2025/6 (see Manu's quote).

I am a "Yes" to trading for DJM, because any doubts I have (which I do) would be steadied by the fact that Spurs FO chose to make the transaction. And very telling.

[rascal]

Murray would be a bird in the hand, a solid vet they might be able to get for pennies on the dollar. Topic and Collier have looked less than impressive, Castle can't shoot, pretty much leaves Dillingham as the best looking bet at PG but he's no sure thing either. Both Scoot Henderson and Amen Thompson would probably go first in this year's draft and they have both looked awful as rookies. It's a real crapshoot in the draft and if they can get their PG situation settled with Murray it allows them to take some swings on fowards with their draft picks. No one other than rascal is saying mortgage the future for Murray. This ain't the Spurs front office that drafted Kawhi, Manu, and Tony, this is the front office that just pissed away three firsts on Sochan, Branham, and Wesley, so stupidity is thinking they shouldn't make moves for good young players on bargain contracts because let's just stockpile picks forever.

I want the Spurs to keep their picks and the Atlanta picks so I don't want Murray. You aren't getting Murray unless you trade with some of those picks.

[exstatic]

Keldon for Murray keeps the Spurs books pretty clean so they could still add another star down the road. It all comes down to draft pick compensation.

If I was the Hawks I would want KJ plus the 2025 and 2027 picks.

If I was the Spurs I'd be willing to do KJ plus the 2027 pick and one other pick. Just not sure what that other pick would be be.

I’m starting to come around on the 27 pick. It’s a sneaky good move in that it’s too late to improve them enough to wreck the25 pick or the 26 swap, and it might be enough, with the Charlotte pick and the Chicago pick, plus filler, to satisfy their FO and placate their fanbase. They would get back 2 of the 3 FRPs that they sent us, plus a not terrible Chicago pick. Send them contracts to match, and none of our young players.

[Dejounte]

Exactly. People might laugh but we need to start taking the same approach Houston did in free agency. Adding some vets (Dejounte would be like put Vanvleet) and add an “enforcer”. It’s done pretty well for them so far except we should be much better because year 2 Wemby is gonna be so much better than Sengun is right now. Definitely a playoff team and it’ll be so much better for development. People who are talking about “fitting a timeline” have no clue because the players may be all young and have a lot of time to develop but they will never develop the right habits if they don’t have vets teaching them out to win!

100%. We’d All Be Laughing At The Rockets Right Now If They Were Having A Year Like Ours And Claim That They Are Headed Nowhere But Them Showing Positive Improvement As A Team (As A Result Of Having More Vets) Actually Makes Most Of Their Young Guys Look Good And There Isn’t Any Doubt Now Whether A Guy Like Sengun Is A Good Player Or Not Because They Are Having Success As A Team. Kudos To The Rockets For That. I Just Threw Up In My Mouth For Saying That.

[k830713]

https://fanspo.com/nba/trades/uSEWY93lko_lb9

[exstatic]

https://fanspo.com/nba/trades/uSEWY93lko_lb9

that. Give them back their 27 and the Charlotte pick, throw in the CHI pick, and ship out Cedi and Devonte for salary relief. Your trade gives up our best two picks, and by giving them assets that early, they improve quickly and it likely devalues the 27 pick.

[scott]

Dejounte is nailing it in regards to the Timeline discussion. The notion that we do nothing but make all these draft picks and have the team organically turn into something is non-sensical. Continually adding 19 and 20-year old kids to a roster full of other players who have never had any experience winning or vet leadership is a recipe for disaster and will lead to a perma-tank situation where we are always one or two years away from being one or two years away. It's easy to envision how something like that happens:

2023: "We just need to see what we have around Wemby and see him develop"
2024: "We just need to see what we have around Topic and see him develop"
2025: "We just need to see what we have around Flagg and see him develop"
2026: "We just need to see what we have around Boozer and see him develop"
2027: "We just need to see what we have around Kevin Tran and see him develop"

And so on, and so on.

As someone rightly pointed out, if Wemby has a long career with the Spurs, which we all hope he does, he'll likely go through three different main lineup evolutions around him, like Duncan did. I'd even argue that Duncan went through four lineup evolutions, it's just that the last one didn't ring and was Duncan's last season.

1. Duncan, DRob, Sean Elliott era
2. Duncan, Parker, Manu Big 3 era
3. Beautiful game era (while this still had the big 3, they were all in different stages of their career, and the team wasn't as reliant on those 3)
4. Neph, LMA era (Duncan's last season - franchise record 67 wins

Yeah, DJM doesn't fit the Wemby timeline in terms of being around for his entire career, but DJM could easily perform at a high level and be part of the first half of Wemby's career.

DJM also brings a minor connection back to the Spurs playoff years, he was a rookie in the Zaza year where we should have ringed if not for that dirty MFer. He was part of 3 Spurs play-off teams (though injured for one of them), 2 Spurs Play-In Teams, and 1 Hawks Play-Off team. We need some postseason experience on our roster. Right now, Zollins, Cedi, Doug and Devonte are our ONLY players with playoff experience, and I have them listed in the order of the most playoff games played (20, 19, 15, 6 to be exact). DJM has 21 playoff games under his belt. For that reason I also like the idea of insisting that Patty be part of the deal (95 playoff games, 1 ring). Even if Patty is just a direct replacement for Devonte, that is a huge addition to this young team.

[rascal]

Dejounte is nailing it in regards to the Timeline discussion. The notion that we do nothing but make all these draft picks and have the team organically turn into something is non-sensical. Continually adding 19 and 20-year old kids to a roster full of other players who have never had any experience winning or vet leadership is a recipe for disaster and will lead to a perma-tank situation where we are always one or two years away from being one or two years away. It's easy to envision how something like that happens:

2023: "We just need to see what we have around Wemby and see him develop"
2024: "We just need to see what we have around Topic and see him develop"
2025: "We just need to see what we have around Flagg and see him develop"
2026: "We just need to see what we have around Boozer and see him develop"
2027: "We just need to see what we have around Kevin Tran and see him develop"

And so on, and so on.

As someone rightly pointed out, if Wemby has a long career with the Spurs, which we all hope he does, he'll likely go through three different main lineup evolutions around him, like Duncan did. I'd even argue that Duncan went through four lineup evolutions, it's just that the last one didn't ring and was Duncan's last season.

1. Duncan, DRob, Sean Elliott era
2. Duncan, Parker, Manu Big 3 era
3. Beautiful game era (while this still had the big 3, they were all in different stages of their career, and the team wasn't as reliant on those 3)
4. Neph, LMA era (Duncan's last season - franchise record 67 wins

Yeah, DJM doesn't fit the Wemby timeline in terms of being around for his entire career, but DJM could easily perform at a high level and be part of the first half of Wemby's career.

DJM also brings a minor connection back to the Spurs playoff years, he was a rookie in the Zaza year where we should have ringed if not for that dirty MFer. He was part of 3 Spurs play-off teams (though injured for one of them), 2 Spurs Play-In Teams, and 1 Hawks Play-Off team. We need some postseason experience on our roster. Right now, Zollins, Cedi, Doug and Devonte are our ONLY players with playoff experience, and I have them listed in the order of the most playoff games played (20, 19, 15, 6 to be exact). DJM has 21 playoff games under his belt. For that reason I also like the idea of insisting that Patty be part of the deal (95 playoff games, 1 ring). Even if Patty is just a direct replacement for Devonte, that is a huge addition to this young team.

Not if you make good draft picks. Spurs could be getting two lottery picks this year and two next year.

The core that the Spurs won their championships with were their own draft picks with some veteran additions to that core.

[Spurminator]

Not if you make good draft picks. Spurs could be getting two lottery picks this year and two next year.

The core that the Spurs won their championships with were their own draft picks with some veteran additions to that core.

That would still be the case. What this team is missing is those "veteran additions." What recent history gives you any confidence that this FO can build a Championship team through the draft?

[NASpurs]

2027: "We just need to see what we have around Kevin Tran and see him develop"

Kevin Tran is already developed. We're on HIS timeline, even with Wemby on the team.

[LeBowen]

Not if you make good draft picks. Spurs could be getting two lottery picks this year and two next year.

The core that the Spurs won their championships with were their own draft picks with some veteran additions to that core.

Noone is saying that Spurs should trade away all the assets to become a treadmill team, but people are putting way too much value on lottery picks, imo.
Giannis and Jokic won the right way. Homegrown teams with some additions.
Jamal Murray at #7 was the highest pick Bucks/Nuggets made.
On the other hand you have the Sixers and all their lottery failures. Same goes for Suns.
Then again you have Dallas and Luka being too good, too soon and them not having enough assets to improve the roster or messing it up.
Won't even mention franchises that can't do anything right like the Hornets or Pistons.

Spurs will have a top5 pick this year with Wemby already guaranteed to be a parennial MVP candidate.
13 total first rounders, some of them really valuable.

At some point tanking and hoarding assets becomes detrimental, one more season of this and we're entering Hornets territory.
Look at the recent drafts and count how many top10 picks actually lived up to the expectations.

It's way harder to properly evaluate talent because all the most hyped prospects are one and done, nowhere near being a finished product.
Unless you're guaranteed to strike gold like we did with Wemby, tanking is not worth it anymore.
Look at the rest of draft class. Sure, some of them will turn out to be great, but wasn't Scoot supposed to be the next Westbrook and Thompson was the next Grant Hill? What happened?

[baseline bum]

Interesting that Keldon is the one rumored to be part of a potential deal. When Keldon was viewed as a core piece of the starting 5, I thought he made the most sense to move in a trade, but I’ve actually really liked him in his bench role.

While sending Keldon out and getting DJM in does solve the PG problem, it creates a big depth problem, but as Dejounte notes it will be easier to fill that role (or the SF role in general) than it will be to fill the PG role. It is questionable that any of the PGs in this draft will ever be as good as DJM, but there are lots of SF prospects in the draft who may be as good as Keldon.

Keldon for DJM is also helpful for future cap flexibility. Even tho Keldon is on an affordable deal, those start to add up.

Seeing Topic have 4 points in his first Euroleague game and Collier having a terrible season has soured me so much on this draft that I wasn't too high on to begin with. The only PG prospect I see that I really like is Dillingham, but I could see him creeping up the board to where the Spurs maybe wouldn't get him without a top 3 pick. I see Risascher and think maybe he can be a solid role player in the mold of Batum or maybe Tayshaun Prince but ouch having to spend a top 3 pick to get him. Holland and Buzelis having disappointing years while playing in a soft league on GLeague Ignite too? Damn. Sarr looks like a nice project but not one of such talent that you can say screw the fit, take him anyways. Such a terrible year to be this bad.

[baseline bum]

That would be hilarious for the Hawks to take Johnson rather than insisting upon Vassell.

No way Spurs are giving Vassell up for Murray. That's at best a side-grade for the team. Hawks are the ones desperate to make a move since them staying the course just gives the Spurs some nice lottery picks.

[scott]

that. Give them back their 27 and the Charlotte pick, throw in the CHI pick, and ship out Cedi and Devonte for salary relief. Your trade gives up our best two picks, and by giving them assets that early, they improve quickly and it likely devalues the 27 pick.

Even if you just swapped the '25 ATL for '27 (I'd rather send them ours than theirs), I think this isn't too bad. But I agree, the '25 ATL pick should be off-limits. Of course would rather give them the CHI pick than the TOR pick, but I'm becoming okay with the TOR pick. In this deal we are keeping Keldon, which I like.

'27 FRP (unprotected) + CHI pick is what I've felt is the right value the whole time.

[scott]

Not if you make good draft picks. Spurs could be getting two lottery picks this year and two next year.

The core that the Spurs won their championships with were their own draft picks with some veteran additions to that core.

Even if you make good draft picks, they are all kids. Even if it were Scoot or a Thompson in this draft and the Spurs picked them, we'd still have to wait for them to develop. The Spurs won their championships by adding their own picks to already good teams (which is how those picks were so low to begin with). At no point did the Spurs have to rely on some kid who didn't know how to play basketball to develop for the team to be good, and that is the point. This Spurs team will be much better by building a competent team and then adding draft picks to them (potentially two this year, at least one next year).

The idea that we can do nothing other than draft and hope it works out is wishful thinking.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Even if you just swapped the '25 ATL for '27 (I'd rather send them ours than theirs), I think this isn't too bad. But I agree, the '25 ATL pick should be off-limits. Of course would rather give them the CHI pick than the TOR pick, but I'm becoming okay with the TOR pick. In this deal we are keeping Keldon, which I like.

'27 FRP (unprotected) + CHI pick is what I've felt is the right value the whole time.

Why would you be giving an unprotected pick for a mediocre player, who’s proven he’s not a difference maker? Who are you bidding against? Because it seems you’re bidding with the original DJ trade in mind and this is just wrong.

[spurraider21]

another aspect at play here is the hawks owner is a cheap who probably wants to get under the tax, hence salary dumping collins for scraps

as it stands, their roster next year (before worrying about free agents or cap holds) has 163mil in salary whereas the luxury tax line is close to 172 mil. if they wanted to hang onto say, saddiq bey, that would probably put them over the tax line, on a middling roster.

could make the spurs package of expiring + picks the most attractive offer to them, as opposed to lakers offers built around hachimura/russell, both of whom are under contract beyond this year.

they also could be looking to unload deandre hunter, who has yet to begin his 4 year extension. im not saying we should get in on that, but could be something they try to do as part of a murray trade. offload extra salary whether it be hunter or capela

[scott]

No way Spurs are giving Vassell up for Murray. That's at best a side-grade for the team. Hawks are the ones desperate to make a move since them staying the course just gives the Spurs some nice lottery picks.

If the Hawks really wanted Vassell, it would have to be DJM for Devin straight up or Devin + CHI or CHA pick at most.

I think Keldon + TOR pick or a '27 unprotected (or maybe even Top 4 Protected) is probably fair value.

[spurraider21]

vassell should not be part of this discussion

[mo7888]

Even if you just swapped the '25 ATL for '27 (I'd rather send them ours than theirs), I think this isn't too bad. But I agree, the '25 ATL pick should be off-limits. Of course would rather give them the CHI pick than the TOR pick, but I'm becoming okay with the TOR pick. In this deal we are keeping Keldon, which I like.

'27 FRP (unprotected) + CHI pick is what I've felt is the right value the whole time.

If you swapped 27 for 25, you should only give them the lesser pick, virtually making it a swap in our favor.