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I am almost starting to get sick of all the complaints...
It seems that Mississippi is being ignored not only by the media but also by the Feds.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nati...sippi-HK2.html
September 3, 2005
Mississippians' Suffering Overshadowed
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 9:49 p.m. ET
JACKSON, Miss. (AP) -- Mississippi hurricane survivors looked around Saturday and wondered just how long it would take to get food, clean water and shelter. And they were more than angry at the federal government and the national news media.
Richard Gibbs was disgusted by reports of looting in New Orleans and upset at the lack of attention hurricane victims in his state were getting.
''I say burn the bridges and let 'em all rot there,'' he said. ''We're suffering over here too, but we're not killing each other. We've got to help each other. We need gas and food and water and medical supplies.''
Gibbs and his wife, Holly, have been stuck at their flooded home in Gulfport just off the Biloxi River. Water comes up to the second floor, they are out of gasoline, and food supplies are running perilously low.
Until recently, they also had Holly's 75-year-old father, who has a pacemaker and severe diabetes, with them. Finally they got an ambulance to take him to the airport so he could be airlifted to Lafayette, La., for medical help.
In poverty-stricken north Gulfport, Grover Chapman was angry at the lack of aid.
''Something should've been on this corner three days ago,'' Chapman, 60, said Saturday as he whipped up dinner for his neighbors.
He used wood from his demolished produce stand to cook fish, rabbit, okra and butter beans he'd been keeping in his freezer. Although many houses here, about five miles inland, are still standing, they are severely damaged. Corrugated tin roofs lie scattered on the ground.
''I'm just doing what I can do,'' Chapman said. ''These people support me with my produce stand every day. Now it's time to pay them back.''
One neighbor, 78-year-old Georgia Smylie, knew little about what's happening elsewhere. She was too worried about her own situation.
''My medicine is running out. I need high blood pressure medicine, medicine for my heart,'' she said.
Larry Sabato, a University of Virginia political scientist, said he's been watching hours of Katrina coverage every day and most of the national media attention has focused on the devastation and looting in New Orleans.
''Mississippi needs more coverage,'' Sabato said. ''Until people see it on TV, they don't think it's real.''
Along the battered Mississippi Gulf Coast, crews started searching boats for corpses on Saturday. Several shrimpers are believed to have died as they tried to ride out the storm aboard their boats on the Intracoastal Waterway.
President Bush toured ravaged areas of the Mississippi coast on Friday with Gov. Haley Barbour and other state officials. They also flew over flooded New Orleans.
''I'm going to tell you, Mississippi got hit much harder than they did, but what happened in the aftermath -- it makes your stomach hurt to go miles and miles and miles and the houses are all under water up to the roof,'' Barbour said.
Keisha Moran has been living in a tent in a department store parking lot in Bay St. Louis with her boyfriend and three young children since the hurricane struck. She said National Guardsmen have brought her water but no other aid so far, and she was furious that it took Bush several days before he came to see the damage in Mississippi.
''It's how many days later? How many people are dead?'' Moran said.
Mississippi's death toll from Hurricane Katrina stood at 144 on Saturday, according to confirmed reports from coroners and the Mississippi Emergency Management Agency. Barbour had said Friday the total was 147, but he didn't provide a county-by-county breakdown.
In a strongly worded editorial, The Sun Herald of Biloxi-Gulfport pleaded for help and questioned why a massive National Guard presence wasn't already visible.
''We understand that New Orleans also was devastated by Hurricane Katrina, but surely this nation has the resources to rescue both that metropolitan (area) and ours,'' the newspaper editorialized, saying survival basics like ice, gasoline and medicine have been too slow to arrive.
''We are not calling on the nation and the state to make life more comfortable in South Mississippi, we are calling on the nation and the state to make life here possible,'' the paper wrote.
I am almost starting to get sick of all the complaints...
Ordinarily, there is a cultural disconnect between mainland Mississippi and the Gulf Coast, but I'm pretty confident Mississippi will take care of its own. For better, for worse, the state pride here rivals that of Texas.
Despite all our faults, we will bend over backwards to help one another. Once the dust settles, I think Mississippi will emerge with a brand new reputation.
Now, just give me some gas!
It's 90,000 square miles of damage...
It's the biggest manmade city to every be wiped out.. in human history.
It's NEVER happened before...
THIS IS not star trek...
I remember in 1993 Motorola was launching "IRIDIUM".. a LEO (low earth orbit) satellite phone thing.
Well my friend invested heavy and lost his ass in it.. over 10,000 he lost in stocks cause idiots at Wall Street thought there would never be a need for them.
Big stupid phones.. Well guess what that's about the only thing working..
Also we need to build more HAM radio's into places... you would be suprised how good that works in a pinch...
It was hot in the 50-70's.. HAM's where like UBER before the internet.. cause you could talk to people around the world.
/rant
http://https//registration.philly.co...2F12505019.htmMAYOR CRITICIZED EVEN BEFORE LEVY BREAK. National Hurricane Center Director had to call Nagin at home Saturday night to plead: "Get people out of New Orleans." "The criticisms of Nagin came from above as well. Numerous officials urged him to evacuate the city, but he worried about the legality of ordering people out when New Orleans has few safe hurricane shelters. Also, National Hurricane Center Director Max Mayfield in Miami called Nagin at home Saturday night and told him: Get people out of New Orleans.
''I could never sleep if I felt like I didn't do everything that I could to impress upon people the gravity of the situation,'' Mayfield said. ``New Orleans is never going to be the same.''
When a grim Nagin issued the mandatory evacuation order Sunday, he said: ``We are facing a storm that most of us have feared . . . God bless us.''
Qatar is offering 100 million, hope we take them up on that!
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/kat...aid/index.html
I'm prety sure that people are tired of complaining. We have certain expectations of our government, and one of those is to provide absolute aid during times of crisis. There is no excuse when we have the resources but have just mismanged the response.
There is NO ing excuse because we can respond better than we have. And that is the bottom ing line.
I'm getting tired of people's rationalization for a ty response.
Ok, this following article is it for me. I've had it up to ing here with this government, and this is the final ing straw. This completely shows how incompetant they are, and someone needs to clean some ing house. Heads need to roll. 9/11 was certainly avoidable, but this was a million times more avoidable.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/kat...off/index.html
You're still getting tired of people complaing, Vashner? Because I'm tired of federal officials who are ing stupid.Chertoff: Katrina scenario did not exist
However, experts for years had warned of threat to New Orleans
Saturday, September 3, 2005; Posted: 7:21 p.m. EDT (23:21 GMT)
vert.chertoff.ap.jpg
Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff talks with reporters Saturday during a news conference.
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Defending the U.S. government's response to Hurricane Katrina, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff argued Saturday that government planners did not predict such a disaster ever could occur.
But in fact, government officials, scientists and journalists have warned of such a scenario for years.
Chertoff, fielding questions from reporters, said government officials did not expect both a powerful hurricane and a breach of levees that would flood the city of New Orleans. (See the video on a local paper's prophetic warning -- 3:30 )
"That 'perfect storm' of a combination of catastrophes exceeded the foresight of the planners, and maybe anybody's foresight," Chertoff said.
He called the disaster "breathtaking in its surprise."
But engineers say the levees preventing this below-sea-level city from being turned into a swamp were built to withstand only Category 3 hurricanes. And officials have warned for years that a Category 4 could cause the levees to fail. (See video of why the levee's breech was devastating -- 1:53)
Katrina was a Category 4 hurricane when it struck the Gulf Coast on September 29.
Last week, Michael Brown, head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, told CNN his agency had recently planned for a Category 5 hurricane hitting New Orleans.
Speaking to "Larry King Live" on August 31, in the wake of Katrina, Brown said, "That Category 4 hurricane caused the same kind of damage that we anticipated. So we planned for it two years ago. Last year, we exercised it. And unfortunately this year, we're implementing it."
Brown suggested FEMA -- part of the Department of Homeland Security -- was carrying out a prepared plan, rather than having to suddenly create a new one.
Chertoff argued that authorities actually had assumed that "there would be overflow from the levee, maybe a small break in the levee. The collapse of a significant portion of the levee leading to the very fast flooding of the city was not envisioned."
He added: "There will be plenty of time to go back and say we should hypothesize evermore apocalyptic combinations of catastrophes. Be that as it may, I'm telling you this is what the planners had in front of them. They were confronted with a second wave that they did not have built into the plan, but using the tools they had, we have to move forward and adapt."
But New Orleans, state and federal officials have long painted a very different picture.
"We certainly understood the potential impact of a Category 4 or 5 hurricane" on New Orleans, Lt. General Carl Strock, chief of engineers for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, said Thursday, Cox News Service reported.
Reuters reported that in 2004, more than 40 state, local and volunteer organizations practiced a scenario in which a massive hurricane struck and levees were breached, allowing water to flood New Orleans. Under the simulation, called "Hurricane Pam," the officials "had to deal with an imaginary storm that destroyed more than half a million buildings in New Orleans and forced the evacuation of a million residents," the Reuters report said.
In 2002 the New Orleans Times-Picayune ran a five-part series exploring the vulnerability of the city. The newspaper, and other news media as well, specifically addressed the possibility of massive floods drowning residents, destroying homes and releasing toxic chemicals throughout the city. (Read: "Times-Picayune" Special Report: Washing awayexternal link)
Scientists long have discussed this possibility as a sort of doomsday scenario.
On Sunday, a day before Hurricane Katrina made landfall, Ivor van Heerden, director of the Louisiana State University Public Health Research Center in Baton Rouge, said, "This is what we've been saying has been going to happen for years."
"Unfortunately, it's coming true," he said, adding that New Orleans "is definitely going to flood."
Also on Sunday, Placquemines Parish Sheriff Jeff Hingle referred back to Hurricane Betsy -- a Category 2 hurricane that struck in 1965 -- and said, "After Betsy these levees were designed for a Category 3."
He added, "These levees will not hold the water back."
But Chertoff seemed unaware of all the warnings.
"This is really one which I think was breathtaking in its surprise," Chertoff said. "There has been, over the last few years, some specific planning for the possibility of a significant hurricane in New Orleans with a lot of rainfall, with water rising in the levees and water overflowing the levees," he told reporters Saturday.
That alone would be "a very catastrophic scenario," Chertoff said. "And although the planning was not complete, a lot of work had been done. But there were two problems here. First of all, it's as if someone took that plan and dropped an atomic bomb simply to make it more difficult. We didn't merely have the overflow, we actually had the break in the wall. And I will tell you that, really, that perfect storm of combination of catastrophes exceeded the foresight of the planners, and maybe anybody's foresight."
Chertoff also argued that authorities did not have much notice that the storm would be so powerful and could make a direct hit on New Orleans.
"It wasn't until comparatively late, shortly before -- a day, maybe a day and a half, before landfall -- that it became clear that this was going to be a Category 4 or 5 hurricane headed for the New Orleans area."
As far back as Friday, August 26, the National Hurricane Center was predicting the storm could be a Category 4 hurricane at landfall, with New Orleans directly in its path. Still, storms do change paths, so the possibility existed that it might not hit the city.
But the National Weather Service prediction proved almost perfect.
Katrina made landfall on Monday, August 29.
Tens of thousands of people in New Orleans who did not or could not heed the mandatory evacuation orders issued the day before the storm made landfall were left in dire straits.
"I think we have discovered over the last few days that with all the tremendous effort using the existing resources and the traditional frameworks of the National Guard, the unusual set of challenges of conducting a massive evacuation in the context of a still dangerous flood requires us to basically break the traditional model and create a new model -- one for what you might call kind of an ultracatastrophe," Chertoff said.
He vowed that the United States "is going to move heaven and earth" to rescue those in need.
Damn. That's beyond pitiful. They fvck up and then play the ignorance card?
You got to be kidding me. People have known what would happen for DECADES. Everyone knew that if a Cat 4 or 5 hit, the city would flood.
Everyone involved shouldn't be able to sleep at night.
Whoever appointed this Chertoff character should be ashamed of themselves. Either Chertoff is the dumbest person alive or someone is trying to hide something.
"Either Chertoff is the dumbest person alive or someone is trying to hide something."
all of the above. A political operative appointed by shrub, a loyal puppet who will get a Medal of Freedom for his handling of Katrina.
The Regug insanity continues, not only unabated, but increasing.
shrub is now placing the entire blame on city, parish, state levels. The attempt to take control from the LA is part of the tactics to smear the locals with FULL RESPONSIBILTY for the FEDERAL UP. Karl Rove at work.
8/28/2005 - President Bush appealed for a madatory evacuation.
Later on 8/28/05 - a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.
Bush = appealed
Nagin = ordered
Get it? Do we get it? Or do we pass the buck? Are we accountable? Or are we not?
I know Nagin doesn't understand what mandatory means...as evidenced by this picture:
Furthermore:
Citizens who can not make it out of town are asked to go to the New Orleans Superdome(edit: notice no mention of the Convention Center) and bring enough food and water to last for 5 days.
Now I've been to New Orleans, and I've never had a car when I have been there..and I've been past the Suprdome many times...and it's not hard to get to the Superdome from any area of New Orleans...even if you are poor and don't have a car.
5 days
See? 5 days? 5 days...think about it now...what did the people going to the Superdome not bring with them?
Why do you think they said 5days, before the hurricane even hit?
Tell you what...the day I conclude that it's a better idea to try and get my 80 year old wheel chair bound grandma out of a city, off the top of a roof by a helicopter rescue, after the hurricane hits, instead of just getting the out of town or at least to the high ground for a couple of hours before it hits...just go ahead and ing shoot me.
Everyone said it was going to be the worst to ever hit...The Govenor of Mississipi said that if you don't leave...then you better prepare for the worst.
The City and State officials for LA and NO estimated 80% of the city was evacuated...
Now I am not a math genius...but 200,000 is a lot more than 80% of 495,000.
And those 60% of the Cops that gave up might have been able to help too.
What you have here is a situation of total failure by the city and state governments of Lousiana...Well no...not total failure...
Everyone...City, State and Local..said the get the out of there. This is the big one.
You have a huge numbers of people that didn't take these warnings seriously...and all expected that if things went bad, their government would save them...not an entirely bad idea...but when you have 200,000 that elect to wait for someone to save them...it s a rescue attempt up.
So basically...the way I see it...the only part of this entire snafu that isn't a totally ed up failure...is the Federal Governments rescue mission. Yet they are the only ones I see getting any blame.
I understand having sympathy for these people...but blaming the Federal government isn't sympathizing with them...it's excusing the reponsibilities people have for protecting their own lives, it's excusing the responsibilities of the City and State governments.
And those levy's have been there for 100 years...I know Homeland Security should have done a better job when they installed them 100 years ago...but even if they had started on that project a year ago...it wouldn't have been finished now and a load of partially underconstruction levys might have made it even worse.
But yes...because they didn't prepare for a strom that had never hit the USA immdieately last year...they are the most ignorant government ever...
...I am getting out of here and going to a country with a government that totally wipes the ass of it's people and doesn't rely on the US to rescue them for lesser tragedies, where the water flows outward and doesn't stay in the city...can someone tell me what country that is?
Last edited by whottt; 09-04-2005 at 05:40 AM.
The people who where at the Convention Center were the people who survived the hurricane in their homes. They were flooded, got out and went to the Superdome. They were all told to go to the Convention Center to await food and water.Citizens who can not make it out of town are asked to go to the New Orleans Superdome(edit: notice no mention of the Convention Center) and bring enough food and water to last for 5 days.
5 days
I know...the government should have gone and gotten the food out of the fridge for them.
Jelly, what's wrong with asking for a little help in the wake of a dissaster of such magnitude.
We have to ask for helicopters because of all the dubmasses who didn't leave their houses and now need to be rescued 1 by 1,....5 men and 1 helicopter to rescue 1 or 2 people at a time is really inefficien and sucks up the resources of even the mightiest of nations...imagine if the entire country did that...we'd need 1.5 billion rescue workers and 300 million helicopters.
whottt, you are beginning to sound like TRO. And that's ing scary.
Sorry Smeagol but some of these people were stupid...
Many of these people in Mississippi can't use the poor card...these guys are middle class whites who tried to ride it out...
And many of the people in New Orleans were doing the same thing....
I sympathize with them...but I am not going to put this all on the government...no matter how convenient the excuse. This thing goes on everyone, the governments and the people...but mostly it goes on the hurricane. There is no one cause of this disaster and it's ing stupid to act like there is.
I would say ignorant, uneducted . . . most of these guys probvably had nowhere to go.
If you are middle class and you tried to ride it out, then you cannot be excused. I don't think those people were the majority, though.
It's not all on the Government. But, , the rescue effort has been poorly organized and the government, at all three levels, Federal, State and City, carries partially the blame.
I've been watching the news all morning and they have been showing person after person who still, with no electricity, starving and no clean water...standing knee-deep in FILTH with young children that STILL ARE REFUSING TO LEAVE THEIR HOMES.
They've done surveys so far at the refugee centers and 3/4 of the people that had to be rescued were there because they didn't think it would be that bad, so they ignored the warnings.
I'm not sure how they picked their sample, but at least it's nice to know that so many are giving these people the benefit of the doubt that they couldn't get out, for whatever reason....when that just doesn't seem like that's the case.
And I know that there were people that couldn't because of age or illness or money...but I don't think these were the majority.
Last edited by SpursWoman; 09-04-2005 at 08:53 AM.
a lot of people stayed with the thought, "this is all i have, i want to protect it." i have seen that response many times.
They showed a national guardsman carry someone out kicking & screaming because they didn't want to get out.
An update on the "found" v. "looted" captioning and racism in the media accusations:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24539
Snopes is a beautiful thing.
Why didn't the photographer just ask?An update on the "found" v. "looted" captioning and racism in the media accusations:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24539
Snopes is a beautiful thing.
If I "find" your car in a parking lot, it's good to know you'll understand.
And if you are starving and the only thing that will sustain you is eating out the dashboard and drinking the transmission fluid, then I'd be happy to let you have it.
And I'll still be stealing.
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