Official Hurricane Katrina Thread

[Kori Ellis]

The difference is that they knew the hurricane was coming. You can't predict an earthquake.

Apples and oranges.

Or are you going on the premise that people in SF know it will eventually come?

Well some people on this forum have said that they don't feel sorry for anyone in N.O. because they knew their city was under sealevel and they should have figured that this would eventually happen. So I guess the same could be said for people who live on a fault line with that logic.

[Kori Ellis]

One thing that I don't understand is that many of the politicians/leaders (including the head of Homeland Security) have said (paraphrasing) we never had any idea that the flooding was going to be this bad. So we are unprepared for the damage/rescue/etc.

But then on the other hand, they say everyone knew that they needed to GTFO -- we warned them to get out of the city because we knew that there was a chance the bowl would fill up and it would be catastrophic.

So which is it? This is not something that you can change your stance on to meet your agenda. If you knew it would be this bad, then the response/reaction has been subpar. If you didn't know, then why would you expect that the citizens would evacuate?

I know the answer is that they did know and they did warn people. And they even said the night the hurricane was hitting that only 80% of the areas 1.2M people had gotten out. So they can't really use the "we never knew it would be like this" excuse.

[Vashner]

It's like the Missile Interceptor system.. AKA part of the defunt Reagan star wars defense system. Democrats been trying to shut it down for years saying it's a waste. Bush restored funding.

What it does is shoot a rogue nuke missile down. Maybe it's 50% 50%...
Would you rather have the chance to give the order as a POTUS to try to shoot it down or just let a city be destroyed?

Just saying any city can be wiped out.. it only takes 30 minutes for an ICBM to get into low orbit and launch it's re-entry vehicle.

We need to help any city that's been wiped out. N.O. is a great city.

[Shelly]

I agree that it's not exactly the same but it's similar. Tomorrow it could strike and destroy the city, no?

Isn't it putting your life in mother nature's hand?

Agree

[Shelly]

One thing that I don't understand is that many of the politicians/leaders (including the head of Homeland Security) have said (paraphrasing) we never had any idea that the flooding was going to be this bad. So we are unprepared for the damage/rescue/etc.

But then on the other hand, they say everyone knew that they needed to GTFO -- we warned them to get out of the city because we knew that there was a chance the bowl would fill up and it would be catastrophic.

So which is it? This is not something that you can change your stance on to meet your agenda. If you knew it would be this bad, then the response/reaction has been subpar. If you didn't know, then why would you expect that the citizens would evacuate?

I know the answer is that they did know and they did warn people. And they even said the night the hurricane was hitting that only 80% of the areas 1.2M people had gotten out. So they can't really use the "we never knew it would be like this" excuse.

Yet, the media knew it. As in the LA Times article I posted this morning.

[Kori Ellis]

Also I think when they interview people in the shelters and they say that they "decide to stay" that doesn't necessarily mean that they actually could have gotten out. If you don't have a car, money, or a means, then you "decide to stay", you are deciding that because you don't have any other choice.

I think many more people could have gotten out if they would have started trying like the Wednesday beforehand. But when people didn't really start evacuating until Friday night, there was really a limit on how many people could have gotten out even if they tried. The freeways were packed. The flights were overbooked. And the ones without cars (100K) really didn't have a choice.

I don't really care why people "decided to stay" anymore. I just want everyone in this country, government and citizens alike, to help them.

Many people have died already and many many more are going to die of disease.

This is truly a tragic time.

[Kori Ellis]

Yet, the media knew it. As in the LA Times article I posted this morning.

So how could the Home Land Security Commissioner say that they didn't know it could be this bad?

That bothers me a lot. People in positions of authority need to be able to sack up to responsibility.

[Shelly]

Every time I see that picture of all those school buses parked, it makes me sick. They could have gotten them out.

[timvp]

Another thing is that this was the third time in the last two years that the people of NO had been told to GTFO. The last two times, the hurricanes missed. This time, honestly, the hurricane missed again. People were saying it was going to be a Cat 5 direct strike. It turned out to be a Cat 3 missing well to the East.

If it wasn't for the levees breaking and the snail pace of a reaction time, this hurricane would have maybe killed hundreds. Now you can expect thousands.

[Shelly]

So how could the Home Land Security Commissioner say that they didn't know it could be this bad?

That bothers me a lot. People in positions of authority need to be able to sack up to responsibility.

Exactly. It was there in black in white.

[SpursWoman]

What I don't get is why people are so obsessed with figuring out why people didn't leave. Whatever the reasons, the people are there and need rescuing. Every city and federal model of what would happen in a cat 5 hurricane predicted that 20-25% of the population wouldn't heed the warnings. That was a given going into this.

If we were told to evacuate San Antonio, guess what ... 20-25% of the population wouldn't. There's no use in figuring out why.

To me, it makes people feel better if they hear that the N.O. citizens had an opportunity to get out and didn't. To some, it makes the death toll easier to handle.

Sickening.



P.S.

When the day comes and The Big One hits San Francisco and kills thousands and thousands, are these people going to come with there "well they should have gotten out" stance? Doubtful ... even though everyone knows that when the major earthquake hits, thousands if not hundreds of thousands will die.

What is the difference?

Maybe because if more of the able-bodied people had left on their own we would have had more resources and time to get to the people that had legitimate problems leaving other than denial or stubborness? A lot fewer casualties perhaps? Maybe a disbelief that some would put themselves and their families at risk when theoretically they didn't have to? Or maybe it's just the equivalent of when a *normal* tragedy occurs you ask "why didn't I leave 5 minutes earlier?" "or why didn't I listen to so&so?" or "I knew I shouldn't have bought Firestone tires...". You know at this point it's moot but it's still mind-boggling trying to take in the enormity of the situation, even though *we* weren't directly involved in it. Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

But in any case, it's water under the bridge ... and you're right ... they were still there and they all need(ed) help getting out.

Now I just sit and try to grasp that there's people who even now don't want to leave. You know the reasons...don't want to leave everything they own...scared...don't understand the severity...or just plain bull-headedness. But it escapes me anyway.

But yeah, it makes me feel better to justify the deaths of thousands on Darwin at work.

[timvp]

But yeah, it makes me feel better to justify the deaths of thousands on Darwin at work.

Sarcasm, I assume.







P.S.

What are your feelings if San Francisco falls into the Pacific tomorrow?

[Shelly]

Sarcasm, I assume.







P.S.

What are your feelings if San Francisco falls into the Pacific tomorrow?

You know there are major fault lines in NYC don't you? God forbid those ever become active.

A lot of the damage was in the Marina district, which is built on fill.

Same thing will happen to Newport Beach, CA. All built on land fill and there's a big fault line that runs through there also.

[timvp]

You know there are major fault lines in NYC don't you? God forbid those ever become active.

A lot of the damage was in the Marina district, which is built on fill.

Same thing will happen to Newport Beach, CA. All built on land fill and there's a big fault line that runs through there also.

True, but FEMA's two biggest worries over the years have been:

1) 8.0 hits San Francisco.
2) Cat 4+ hits New Orleans.

[Shelly]

True, but FEMA's two biggest worries over the years have been:

1) 8.0 hits San Francisco.
2) Cat 4+ hits New Orleans.

Honestly, I don't think the big one will be on the San Andreas. It's probably gonna be some fault line they don't even know about. I'm not positive (and Kori may know), but I don't think they even knew about the fault line in the Northridge quake.

Anyway, if there's any positive to come out of this disasters, is that they will be better prepared next time.


Hopefully.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not positive (and Kori may know), but I don't think they even knew about the fault line in the Northridge quake.

That's correct, they didn't know until it happened.

[timvp]

The inevitability of a damaging earthquake still confronts everybody in the Bay Area, and we still risk substantial damage. A new study, released in 2003 by the United States Geological Survey, says that there is a 62 percent chance of a M>=6.7 earthquake during the next 30 years and that the quake could strike at any time, including today. In other words, scientists think that a magnitude 6.7 or larger earthquake is nearly twice as likely to happen as not to happen. This is a substantial increase, since in 1988, scientists thought the chance for such an earthquake was 50 percent (just as likely to occur as not to occur) within 30 years.

Those dumbass, crazy, irresponsible people living in the Bay Area deserve to die.

[/sarcasm]

[SpursWoman]

Sarcasm, I assume.







P.S.

What are your feelings if San Francisco falls into the Pacific tomorrow?

Very much so sarcasm....my heart's too soft to be that damn cold.



And if San Francisco fell into the Pacific tomorrow?

I'd alternate between cursing all of the people who parished for deciding to live in such a dangerous place in the first place and get myself to any media outlet I could and go on wild rants on how it's all a conspiracy of the Bush Administration because of his hatred of gay people.




And I didn't even see your post right above mine before I wrote that.

[Kori Ellis]

I could and go on wild rants on how it's all a conspiracy of the Bush Administration because of his hatred for gay people.

You know that someone on this forum would say that it was a man-made earthquake created just for that purpose.

[Shelly]

Hey! My kids are native San Franciscoians. I resent that gay remark.

[timvp]

You know that someone on this forum would say that it was a man-made earthquake created just for that purpose.

Yeah, we were talking about it at the GTG. NO kills blacks. SF kills gays.

Win-win.

[timvp]

Hey! My kids are native San Franciscoians. I resent that gay remark.

As long as they don't excel at video games, you'll know they are straight.

[Shelly]

[SpursWoman]

You know that someone on this forum would say that it was a man-made earthquake created just for that purpose.

Oh, I know...there's at least one in every crowd.


I think a few of us are experiencing the stages of grief...denial, anger, bargaining....at least I hope so...because if not there are some seriously twisted people around here.

[Spurminator]

Yeah, we were talking about it at the GTG. NO kills blacks. SF kills gays.

Win-win.

And they're all Democrats...

Hmmm. Karl Rove, anyone?