Magic meeting with Dwight today, out of options

[Killakobe81]

I disagree. We lost for a few different reasons:

1) Our biggest strengths were neutralized: our size. Why? Because we had no reliable shooters outside of Kobe and Sessions the bed. Nash solves both problems. Pack the paint at your own risk.

2) Kobe won't have to be our best passer and scorer. With Nash on board we only need the latter from him. This will make him fresh come playoff time.

3) Either D-12 or Bynum will give us "20/10" with great anchorage next year. Count on it like death and taxes.

4) PNR. There are so many options for Nash to go to at the end of quarters/games. Kobe and Pau's PNR - as a go to play - took us to 3 straight Finals. Add Nash to it? It's on.

There are more reasons, but these 4 are enough for now. Miami still hasn't solved their Frontcourt issues. D-12 or Bynum will have his way with Miami. LeBron and Wade will have to play both sides of the court for 40 mpg - for a change.

Simply put: I like our chances against Miami with either D-12 or Bynum. Info our team is healthy we "will have to be dealt with" as Kobe said.

Some solid points, and i hope you are right. But without Dwight we just dont have very many physical advantages other than height ...plus with all of the positives Nash brings on offense he does have some issues on defense.

[Killakobe81]

fify

I have too much respect for Bum, to even debate that subject. But he did choke away at least one game for sure ...

[Koolaid_Man]

I disagree. We lost for a few different reasons:

1) Our biggest strengths were neutralized: our size. Why? Because we had no reliable shooters outside of Kobe and Sessions the bed. Nash solves both problems. Pack the paint at your own risk.

2) Kobe won't have to be our best passer and scorer. With Nash on board we only need the latter from him. This will make him fresh come playoff time.

3) Either D-12 or Bynum will give us "20/10" with great anchorage next year. Count on it like death and taxes.

4) PNR. There are so many options for Nash to go to at the end of quarters/games. Kobe and Pau's PNR - as a go to play - took us to 3 straight Finals. Add Nash to it? It's on.

There are more reasons, but these 4 are enough for now. Miami still hasn't solved their Frontcourt issues. D-12 or Bynum will have his way with Miami. LeBron and Wade will have to play both sides of the court for 40 mpg - for a change.

Simply put: I like our chances against Miami with either D-12 or Bynum. Info our team is healthy we "will have to be dealt with" as Kobe said.

you forgot 2 things...

1.) We have a player that come off the bench and give us 20 on any given night..I say he'll avg about 12 ppg off the bench which is huge - (Jamison )

2.) We now have a whole summer / season/ camp to work with Jordan Hill...dude has turned out to be a flat out stud...much the way Faried is for Denver...I expect Hill to beast especially since he gave up like 12 + million to sign with us..Incredible!!!

[baseline bum]

I have too much respect for Bum, to even debate that subject. But he did choke away at least one game for sure ...

There's no debate here. He was complaining about 3 point shooting and Kobe shot 11.1% from the arc in the OKC series.

[Koolaid_Man]

This year's crop of teams did ok with the return value on sign and trades. If Orlando's not getting back any value they want anyway, they might as well roll the dice and see if they can get something back on a sign and trade.

The advantage to Dallas in a sign and trade would mainly be that it would give them the option of going over the cap the way New Jersey did. If they don't sign anyone for straight-up cap space, they have a lot more options.

Hey Idiot..S&T for who?

[Koolaid_Man]

Some solid points, and i hope you are right. But without Dwight we just dont have very many physical advantages other than height ...plus with all of the positives Nash brings on offense he does have some issues on defense.

news flash Westbrook doesn't play defense either...never has....he bodies smaller guards but that's it...you think the refs are gonna let him body Nash.... yeah right...what's more important is TEAM DEFENSE which is always understated...If we get Dwight watch Nash lead Westbrook to the paint with Dwight and Pau waiting....it looked easy for Westbrook this past season because Bynum doesn't play defense

watch the games dawg...I know what I'm talking about

[tesseractive]

Hey Idiot..S&T for who?

Well, if they do it the way the Nets did it, they resign a bunch of this year's short-timers and ship them off.

[LkrFan]

fify

Well played.

[TIMMYtoZO]

@ OKC will get better. Harden isn't going to all of a sudden be an athletic player. He was exposed badly in the finals. If he doesn't flop his way to the ft line, he doesn't score. His D isn't anything special either. Ibaka is what he is. A shot blocker but poor man to man defender. Thunder still lack a scoring big.

OKC will probably win the west due to everyone being old but fall to Miami yet again.

[Killakobe81]

news flash Westbrook doesn't play defense either...never has....he bodies smaller guards but that's it...you think the refs are gonna let him body Nash.... yeah right...what's more important is TEAM DEFENSE which is always understated...If we get Dwight watch Nash lead Westbrook to the paint with Dwight and Pau waiting....it looked easy for Westbrook this past season because Bynum doesn't play defense

watch the games dawg...I know what I'm talking about

Bynum can play defense he is pretty good at it when he plays hard. Problem is his mobility is just decent. When he gets in pnr he is liek Shaq a mediocre defender. when engaged fully he protects the paint like a beast, but that happens far to inconsistently.

[LkrFan]

Some solid points, and i hope you are right. But without Dwight we just dont have very many physical advantages other than height ...plus with all of the positives Nash brings on offense he does have some issues on defense.

His defense worries me - no doubt. I hope MB can design a scheme to hide him. However, PGs can't take the night off defensively against us no more. His midrange game, his 3pt stroke, his ability to get the ball into a player's hands (bigs), and his crafty way of not only getting to the FT line - he makes 90+% of them. Usually PGs can go balls to the wall against the Lakers on offense and coast on defense because Fish and Sessions were no offensive threats.nash changes that.

Bynum couldn't deal with doubles/triples very well. He'll still get doubled - but it won't be off of Kobe nor Nash's man. And if they don't double I'm confident that Bynum (or D-12) can score on their man one on one at a high clip.

This year we have a full training camp and the full amount of preseason games. Last year we didn't have that. The Lakers were behind the 8-ball to begin with trying to purge their system of over a decade of the triangle and implementing a new system. People complain that MB ran his starters into the ground and that's true to an extent. With virtually no practices, 5 games in 7 nights, back-to-back-to-back games (and other BS during the 66 game sched) - he openly admitted he used games as practice. This year he won't have to do that (I hope).

[LkrFan]

you forgot 2 things...

1.) We have a player that come off the bench and give us 20 on any given night..I say he'll avg about 12 ppg off the bench which is huge - (Jamison )

2.) We now have a whole summer / season/ camp to work with Jordan Hill...dude has turned out to be a flat out stud...much the way Faried is for Denver...I expect Hill to beast especially since he gave up like 12 + million to sign with us..Incredible!!!

Agreed. We have the best frontcourt rotation in the game. Instead of McBob and Murphy coming off the bench - we got Jamison and Hill. The beauty of it all? We have a HOF pass first PG to get them the rock in their sweet spots. I can't wait.

[LkrFan]

There's no debate here. He was complaining about 3 point shooting and Kobe shot 11.1% from the arc in the OKC series.

Not just 3pt shooting - shooting in general. Riddle me this. Kobe shot 11.1% (on makable shots). Did you see the doubles or triple teams go away? that if you must.

[DPG21920]

How so? It's not like next year is a worthy tank year anyways. They're being offered complete crap, Howard has shown he's more about the money than where he plays, and Howard will surely agree to sign the extension somewhere else at the trade deadline when they might be able to peel a decent player or two out of whatever team wants him. What is the point of selling low when him walking for nothing isn't a whole lot worse? The only trade on the table that's reasonable is Bynum and picks, if and only if Bynum signs the extension immediately after. If he came around on signing their extension offer then Orlando should make the trade right away.

The offers won't get any better. It's a massive distraction. HOU's offer is also a solid one from a rebuild perspective with their ability to take multiple bad contracts, send young upside players and give first round picks.

Why would he agree to sign an extension just because it's the trade deadline and not now. If he's about the money, and teams really think that, they will make their offers knowing if they get him (even without a guarantee he will re-sign) he will re-sign due to money a la Dwill if what you say is true. Holding onto him only has one advantage: The possibility he could have a change of heart and stay - but that is so outrageous to think about that it's not enough of a reason to delay this.

Houston doesn't have anyone with huge upside and their picks won't be good after getting Howard. Also, DeVos is a billionaire. We're not talking about Peter Holt who's worth $80 million and therefore has to be really careful with costs.



He's bluffing. He had his opportunity to go where he wanted and decided not to take it, because he can't get the full extension in a sign and trade. He will eventually agree to sign an extension with another team. Why are you expecting him to not all of a sudden be about the money when he has already shown he is?



When he agrees to go to more teams they have a much bigger pot of talent to choose from in exchange. It's not like Houston has a Kidd-Gichrist or even a Rivers to offer in exchange like New Jersey did with Favors. Jeremy Lamb is a dime a dozen volume scorer and led UConn to a ridiculously disappointing season last year. Royce White has tons of red flags. Terrence Jones is a talented player with good size, but just isn't enough for Howard. Marcus Morris sucks. I'll give you that Motiejunas is an interesting prospect.

I agree with baseline bum. There's no reason for Orlando to take a bad deal now. Bad deals will continue to be available from now until the season starts at the end of October. They'll be available on Dec 15th when most of this summer's free agents will be available to be traded. They'll be available on Jan 15th when the remaining summer signings will be available to be traded. And they'll be available at the February trade deadline. Howard's an extremely valuable asset. There's every reason to play out the scenario for as long as it takes to get an acceptable deal.

Except if the deals aren't good now, there is not a whole lot of hope about them improving. Not to mention you have this massive cloud hanging over your franchise with no direction to start the season and massive distractions.

Not really - you eliminate the distraction, the horrific drama and team morale and you get direction.

They are getting a bad offer (if you think what is offered now is bad) because there is no reason for teams to up their offer the longer ORL waits IMO.

I'm sure the morale was better than if he would have stayed and created the circus that Dwight has.

So you think the pressure of hitting FA will get so great on DH by the approaching trade deadline that he will agree to sign an extension and teams will up their offers? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Just thinking logically - if teams truly believed what you are saying, wouldn't they make their best offer to just get Dwigth now knowing he's all about the money and will sign an extension to keep that money regardless of where he plays? If a team is wanting confirmation that Dwight will re-sign, it's because the GM's legitimately think he will walk in FA if traded there.

I get what BB and Mel are saying - I just disagree about the benefits of waiting for the reasons I posted. Either way, not looking good so we just have to see how ORL pulls out of this.

What will happen IMO, is ORL will end up looking very incompetent (which they already do with the pulling in and out of deals) because they will take a deal that has already been discussed and have caused a lot more damage by waiting (from a PR perspective, morale, ....).

It appears to me that ORL management is inept.

If it were true that teams know Dwight is only about the money and he will re-sign where ever he is traded - teams would make their best offers. A team watching ORL use the money tactic to wait Howard out and force him to say "I will re-sign" to gain leverage will know they can't trust Dwight at his word because of all this.

Interesting look back at this - played out pretty much like I thought it would with regards to timeline, but they got a horrendous deal by waiting it out it appears namely due to the bolded parts.

[baseline bum]

Interesting look back at this - played out pretty much like I thought it would with regards to timeline, but they got a horrendous deal by waiting it out it appears namely due to the bolded parts.

What are you talking about? They didn't wait it out.

[ElNono]

I do believe that with all teams except Lakers or Knicks... I think Knicks are out of the picture. Dwight is Lakers bound, I have zero doubt about it at this point. The only way he doesn't end up there is that his back is damaged goods, IMO.

[DPG21920]

What are you talking about? They didn't wait it out.

You said they should wait it out. I said they would make a move much quicker than you were saying.

[Killakobe81]

They waited longer than the deals offered weeks ago and this deal seems worse, compared to what was rumored if you ask me.

I love Afflalo and word is Harkless has great upside but mediocre trade if you ask me.

But hey Im happy, just nervous until it is "official". plus we need to see Dwight's back and him re-sign for it to be a "steal".

[DPG21920]

What are you talking about? They didn't wait it out.

I think you are confused . You realize you were the one arguing they should wait it out and likely would where I said they would not wait (because the offers wouldn't get better) and end up looking like idiots because they are inept.

[Killakobe81]

IIRC correctly me and DPG (and others) argued the deals would get worse ... is this not worse?

Trade that made most sense was 3 way with LAL and HOU or CLE