Yep you aint to bright. Mavs get an all-star point guard for Devin Harris and trash plus picks. Granted Devin is talented and has lots of potential but injury prone. Mavs needed to make a move...the current team was not going to win. If Stack does end up coming back its a great move.
I would advise Mav Fans, and Ghost Writer NOT to read the Hollinger article about the trade, just don't do it to yourselves, ignorance is bliss.Yep you aint to bright. Mavs get an all-star point guard for Devin Harris and trash plus picks. Granted Devin is talented and has lots of potential but injury prone. Mavs needed to make a move...the current team was not going to win. If Stack does end up coming back its a great move.
It's better to read something from someone that knows what he's talking about. Hollinger didn't even recognize the return of Stackhouse.
You ain't "too" bright yourself.Yep you aint to bright. Mavs get an all-star point guard for Devin Harris and trash plus picks. Granted Devin is talented and has lots of potential but injury prone. Mavs needed to make a move...the current team was not going to win. If Stack does end up coming back its a great move.
So Suns have trade Marion and Mavs will maybe trade Harris ....
Parker will have some fun during these playoffs.
Whos to say Cleveland doesn't try and sign him?
the hollinger article:
The Lakers must be falling over with laughter by now.
In the wake of their acquisition of Pau Gasol -- a trade that cost them nothing of value -- two of their biggest rivals for Western Conference supremacy responded by dealing key pieces of their core for Eastern Conference legends in their mid-30s. First, of course, came Phoenix's deal for Shaquille O'Neal last week, and now the Mavericks have jumped in with today's close-to-completion deal for Jason Kidd.
This isn't nearly as bad as the Shaq trade -- let me get that out of the way up front. But it has the same whiff of panic to it, coming as it did after the Mavs suffered consecutive whippings at the hands of second-tier Eastern teams, and following Mark Cuban's insistence that Dallas wouldn't unload half its team for Kidd.
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Jason Kidd
Kevin C. Cox/Getty Images
The Jason Kidd Era in Jersey appears to be ending.
But that's exactly what they're about to do. Dallas is about to send Devin Harris, Jerry Stackhouse, DeSagana Diop, Devean George, Maurice Ager, cash and two first-round picks to New Jersey for Kidd, Antoine Wright, Malik Allen and a second-rounder. (Technically it would be two trades, with Wright for a No. 2 as a side deal in order to meet league roster requirements).
Obviously, the two protagonists are Kidd and Harris. So let me ask you a provocative question that I brought up when the three-way version of this deal was kicked around: Would you trade Harris for Kidd, straight up?
Based on notoriety alone, most would offer a quick yes. But shine that light a little closer. Kidd's PER this season is 16.07, while Harris is way ahead at 18.66. This may shock some people who have only seen the reports of his triple-doubles, but Kidd is scoring at a much lower rate this season, shooting a hideous 36.7 percent from the field, and his turnover rate has skyrocketed. While he's far from the only culprit, his decline is one reason the Nets are 25th in offensive efficiency; the Mavs, in contrast, are second with Harris as quarterback.
Per 40 minutes, Harris averages nearly seven points more; that's huge. He also gets to the line more than twice as often and shoots a far better percentage from the field. His true shooting percentage of 59.2 dwarfs Kidd's 48.3. Think about that difference for a second -- for every nine shots they take (including free-throw sessions), Harris has a one-point advantage.
Finally, Harris is a huge plus at the defensive end, where he has the quickness to defend the Parkers, Pauls and Nashes of the West and was second in the league in offensive fouls drawn last season, according to 82games.com. By my methods, he was the best defensive point guard in the league in 2006-07. Unfortunately, the one guy he struggled against was Baron Davis, a fact that may be seared in the Mavs' memories given how last season ended.
Kidd's two big advantages are passing and rebounding, and they're gargantuan differences, make no mistake. But if you break it down, it seems his numbers in those two categories might decline in Dallas' system.
As far as assists go, the Mavs are one of the league's most isolation-heavy teams and annually have among the league's lowest rates of assisted baskets; the Nets are the opposite and are annually among the highest. It's possible Dallas changes some of that to take advantage of Kidd, of course, but somehow I imagine the high-post isos for Dirk Nowitzki and Josh Howard will remain the bread-and-butter of the offense.
Additionally, Kidd's passing skills are most lethal in transition, but the Mavs run infrequently. While some still imagine this as a Wild West Don Nelson outfit, Dallas has been one of the league's slowest-paced teams ever since Avery Johnson took over.
My thoughts: and this is where our ability to defend the transition was not helpful against the Mavs traditionally. Because they didn't rely on transition points to beat us.
Getting The Point
Kidd's trade at least allows the NBA to undo a grave injustice. Voted in as a starter in the East, Kidd would now presumably suit up with the West on Sunday.
To fill his vacated spot, the league could tab Toronto point guard Jose Calderon, whose ridiculous efficiency was somehow overlooked by Eastern Conference coaches when they chose the reserves. It would be a poetic justice, as it was Kidd's selection as a starter that effectively cost Calderon a much-deserved spot in the first place. -- Hollinger
On the rebounds, New Jersey's frontcourt rebounding was historically bad for the first two months of this season, as I mentioned in another piece earlier on -- leaving a ton of boards available for Kidd to grab. In fact, Kidd's rebound rate has declined quite a bit since Josh Boone took over for Jason Collins, as fewer caroms were left over for the guards. Similarly, he won't have as many boards available for him to snag in Dallas, where the Mavs are already seventh in the league in defensive rebound rate (nearly all of Kidd's boards are defensive).
OK, so he won't score as much as Harris and he might lose a bit on his rebounds and assists. One can still come up with some offsetting positives. For starters, Kidd is a leader in a locker room that appears in need of one. Dallas' testicular for ude has been questioned in the past two postseasons, so perhaps he can make a difference there. And it's possible he'll be more motivated in Big D than he was in New Jersey; at the very least, I suspect he'll suffer from fewer headaches.
In addition, Kidd is a good defender against bigger guards, which means Dallas might be able to play him and Jason Terry together for 40 minutes and dispense with the 30 scoreless minutes they're getting each night from the Eddie Jones-Trenton Hassell combo. (Although just in case they get nostalgic, Wright's addition makes it a trio of wing guys who can defend but can't score).
But before you get too excited, look into the future. Kidd is 10 years older and costs five times as much; even after Harris' extension kicks in he'll be triple the cost. Which player do you think you'd rather have in 2008-09? What about in 2009-10, presuming the Mavs extend Kidd, when he'll be 36 and Harris 26?
I know, I know -- this move was made primarily with this season in mind. So let's say after all that you still like Kidd better than Harris. Do you like him so much better that you're willing to include Stackhouse and Diop and two first-round draft choices?
Diop was Dallas' starting center and best low-post defender (Side note: guess that Shaq trade had them real worried, huh?), while Stackhouse was one of their most important bench players. In fact, the irony of this trade is that a big reason for Dallas' recent struggles is that Harris and Stackhouse have been injured.
The Mavs are 4-4 since Harris went out; Stackhouse has played only once in that time, for just 11 minutes. It's an ugly 4-4 too. Of the wins, two were against Memphis and one was Milwaukee; the losses included one-sided setbacks against Detroit, New Jersey and Philadelphia.
That takes us to an aspect of this trade nobody is paying any attention to: Harris' huge impact on the Mavs' success over the past two seasons. In 2006-07, when Dallas won 67 games, guess who had the biggest on-court/off-court point differential? Hint: It wasn't the MVP. According to 82games.com, Dallas was a whopping +14.2 points per 48 minutes with Harris on the court. Moreover, the Harris-Nowitzki combo was the single most effective player combination in the league.
This year, the Harris-Terry-Howard-Nowitzki-Dampier unit has played 164 minutes together and outscored opponents by 43 points (that's a whopping 12.6 points per 48 minutes). The four most common Harris-Terry arrangements all have massively positive point differentials, adding up to an advantage of +20.7 points per 48 minutes(!). So much for the idea that you can't play two small guards together.
No, we're not done yet -- there's one final point to consider. The Nets will likely buy out Stackhouse, but there's no guarantee Dallas will be able to re-sign him; in fact, by rule they aren't allowed to for 30 days.
In the meantime, is it that hard to imagine bench-starved Cleveland diving in with the $4.1 million remaining on its midlevel exception, or the Pistons ($3.86 million) bringing him back to Motown to replace the struggling Jarvis Hayes? For that matter, what about the Spurs ($4.4 million) or Suns (full midlevel) breaking out the wampum just to spite their Western rivals? Keep in mind, too, that these salaries would be prorated for the rest of this year, lowering the luxury tax hit those teams would take.
In the final analysis, then, it seems Dallas gave up quite a bit to make what is, even with the most rose-colored glasses, a marginal upgrade at the point. It's possible it could work, but my issue with this deal is that the risk and reward seem out of line. Much like Phoenix with the Shaq deal, I can't help but wonder if the Mavs are fixated on what Kidd was 18 months ago rather than what he'll be over the next 18 months.
Let me repeat that I'm not nearly not as down on this trade as I am on Phoenix's. But on balance, I think it puts Dallas farther from a le rather than closer. And as a result, I suspect Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak may be having a quiet chuckle when he checks his Blackberry today.
Last edited by DespЏrado; 02-13-2008 at 07:00 PM.
You're a ing idiot.
AI is going to have a field day
Harris was quicker and better on D.
Great deal for the Nets
this is always the war cry of the fan base who's team was criticized.
go ahead and comfort yourself with the return of Stack, but the article still mostly rings true.
I like the thought and support this move 1000%. It makes sense for all the reasons you've indicated. If Pop and the Spurs FO were nervous about the Gasol-to-the-Fakers trade, then Diop would be a good antidote to counter the "size" acquisitions made by the Fakers and Suns. He would solidfy the frontline by doing some of the dirty work against those bigger teams - work that Tim has to do now.
Over the past week, isn't it funny how PHX and the Fakers got bigger and the Mavs, who were big, got smaller?
I've given up hope of the Spurs getting a swingman before the trade deadline. However, acquiring Diop would be good move now and for down the road.
which western team is next to make a move?
Nuggets for Mike Miller or Artest
This trade is all kinds of win for the Spurs. I am so much more confident about the repeats without Harris and Diop in Dallas. Dallas lost their roleplayers that made them so effective against us.
I don't even see how Terry and Kidd can coexist. Terry somehow worked with Harris but I don't see that working out so well with Kidd for some reason.
The Lakers are now the most dangerous team in the West next to the Spurs, How quickly the west's outloook changed.
Wow! Giving up on Harris at this point - what a mistake.
I suppose Cuban thinks Dampier and Bass can slow down Timmy...
I cannot believe all that Dallas had to give up. I understand they'll get Stackhouse back once he sits out 30 days but what else are they going to use for depth? Not to mention having to throw in cash and 2 1st round picks.
Harris and Diop always kill Spurs.
Congratulations on the 2007-2008 Championship, Spurs fans.
See you next season.
So he's getting his assists each game by throwing it to Dirk for spot up jumpers instead of Jefferson on the alley oop. Same thing Harris was doing.
Big ing deal.
It's always sad when a team literally dismantles itself from inside out. Harris may have inconsistent but he was the best spurs killer in the league the last few years.
Maybe having an expiring Kidd contract will help you down the line but I doubt it.
Couldn't agree more. If Kidd starts posting up Parker and Tony struggles, sic Bowen on Kidd's ass. Parker slides over to cover Terry, and Ginobili covers Howard. But Parker can cover Kidd. , he did well against Billups in '05. Parker is 6'2", Billups 6'3", and Kidd 6'4".
Pop won't ever need to go small against the Mavs because Manu and Parker will score 55 points a game against Kidd and Terry. Duncan will also do well not having to play against Diop.
Whoever said it earlier was right; the Mavs got raped in this trade.
what i don't understand is that it seems kidd wants OUT of NJ.. but he wouldn't sign with us and alstar bigman timmy
I mean what does it say about san antonio if a player wants out of a city had a chance to sign with you and then doesn't , but re ups for the team he wants gone from.
Kidd wants out now, he didn't want out back in 2003. Get with the program junior.
Revisionist history. You hated Kidd, and talked all kinds of bad things about his shooting and defense (in favor of getting Payton).
I cannot believe Dallas broke up a young and promising core like that. The Marion trade is at least defensible when you cite his contract and whining, but Harris is a pretty good defensive player and a far superior slasher, on top of being an unquestionably better shooter. I've only seen 3 or 4 of Kidd's games this season, but in that sample he has looked old. Maybe it's just a motivation thing though.
Yeah he did... his crazy didn't want out in 2003.
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