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Nice game by the rockets today.. nice fade for the lakers..today' game is proof that LA is to young to win the west..
the west is WIDE OPEN
Exactly.
With a healthy Yao given how Rafer and Scola have stepped up, Houston would have emerged as probably the favorite if they were fully healthy. They are playing great defensively and as a team offensively.
As it stands now, it's completely wide open.
LA has injury issues. So does Houston and New Orleans (David West keeps getting his ankle hurt). SA has the track record but is struggling for some reason. Utah is playing great, great ball, but they are struggling badly on the road and likely to not have HCA in a single round. Ouch. Dallas can't seem to beat a good team after Kidd. GS just doesnt have the typical makeup of a deep playoff run team.
Mocking any team as if they have no chance to do anything in the West is just stupid. If you make the playoffs in the West this yr, you have about as good a chance of getting out as the #1 seed. There's a reason there are 8 teams within 4 games of each other. Absolutely no dominant team this year. No SA of 2005 or 1999, no LA of 2000-2002.
Nice game by the rockets today.. nice fade for the lakers..today' game is proof that LA is to young to win the west..
the west is WIDE OPEN
Well whats that say about your team perimeter defense? Think your team could learn to go over the pick and have a defender roll with Rafer just once maybe. And lets see, did it take Rafer hitting 8 three's for the rox to win the other 21 games in a row dumbass?
Funny, considering that if you had to pick 3 teams who are playing the best ball right now in the West it's: New Orleans, Houston, and Utah.
Excluding Utah from this discussion is short-sighted. They are playing just as well as Houston the last 3 months. Just been overshadowed by the streak.
New Orleans just crushed the Mavs, Lakers, and Spurs in the last 2 weeks and aren't capable?!
The Mavs are probably the team right now LEAST likely if you had to pick one of getting out of the WC. Not strong defensively, weak inside presence, 0-5 against winning teams post-Kidd, and lots of playoff demons to exercise from the disastrous endings to the 2006 and 2007 postseasons.
I do think the Suns are a nice sleeper pick. Really picking it up lately.
Ive tried and tried but you just don't listen.
Boozer is not big enough to be a center. If Boozer was a seven footer, he would also be a center. No doubt about it. He just doesn't have the height so he plays power forward.
I gave you a list....a checklist the generally defines what a center is. One of these things was being around seven teen tall. Boozer isn't pushing seven feet. Boozer also doesn't shoot the hookshot and isnt' completely dependant on his height for his game. You know why? Because he can't be....he's not tall enough. Boozer actually plays very similar to Kevin McHale.
Duncan meets ALL the criteria to a tee.
Duncan has the height, he just wants to be called a power forward. He says he likes it because he doesn't want to "limit" his game to things a center does, but Duncan doesn't do anything outside what the stereotypical center does so why does he care?
He does these things well, but he doesn't have the speed, shooting ability or ball control of a KG, Amare or Dirk. He's a seven footer who plays with his back to the basket, shoots the vast majority of his shots from within three feet, and most of the time won't shoot outside ten feet given all the space in the world. If it looks like a center, plays like a center, and is LISTED as a center:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/player...e?playerId=215
Then it probably IS a center.
How bizzare that ESPN lists him as a center yet ranks him as the best power forward of all time?
btw - only a complete moron wouldn't realize that the data you just pulled up is incorrect. Tim Duncan and Boozer have already shot 1000 attempts each this season. Over 60% of those attempts will be within three feet. Hotzones doesn't get updated as often as it should, thus you have to go back to last season to get any relevant data.
Why don't you just give up?
And once again, you are a moron. Unless you wan't to forget about Jordan and the Bulls. Im sure you aren't going to argue the merits of Bill Cartright. Horace grant was a nice player, but not an "interior precence" by any stretch. And Dennis Rodman was a superior rebounder, with zero offensive game. Kind of evened it out a bit. Not only that, I believe Magic Johnson might have words with you also, when Kareem went down for their finals. And are we going to call Sheed the outside threat, an "inside presence" for the Pistons run?
Basically I just want to say you are a tool, with little to no actual basketball knowledge. Will I say the Rox, as constructed, are better than the Lakers....NO. Mostly because Im a not some who doesn't understand that there are a lot of very good teams in the West right now.
I will tell you this though. Bynum isn't the key to the Lakers, and makes little to no difference in any of their championship desires, nor does Ariza. Turiaff (sp) gave you everything that Bynum would of tonight against the Rox. A handful of points, a few blocks and good rebounding.
You wan't to crap on the Rox run as "luck". Well those same players were out for the rest of the league, who else is getting 22 game winning streaks. Did the Rox not Beat the Cavs twice, the Hornets twice, the Mavs, the Lakers, a pretty good Denver team, and Golden State in that stretch? You wan't to do the winning percentage math on those teams you johnson?
Sorry, the Lakeshow better hope that they keep homecourt over teams like the Spurs, Mavs, Suns, and yes G.S. Because I would seriously doubt they would have a chance against those teams in a 7 games series from the road.
TRUTH is, no one knows who's getting out of the West, it's wide open and any homer would have to conceive that point. But to the people acting like they know EXACTLY who has the best chances, who's not making it etc etc should give me a heads up about the Lotto numbers, thanks.
I love it, you call me a tool and then proceed to make the dumbest statement I've ever heard.
Bynum's stats this year
----------------------
13.1 ppg
10 rpg
2.1 bpg
1.7 apg
64% FG
He is our defensive anchor, nobody on the team is capable of anchoring the paint the way he can. He alters shots and completely changes the dynamics of our team on defense. Players think twice about penetrating and throwing up weak against him. It allows our perimeter players to play tighter defense because they know who is waiting behind them. It's no coincidence the Lakers were playing much better defense when Bynum was playing. To say that Turiaf, who is really a PF, playing the C spot is as good as Bynum is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
As far as Ariza goes, he is one of our best perimeter defenders. We can stick him on T-Mac the entire game and let Kobe save his energy and guard Battier. When he is not playing we are stuck with two matadors, Vlade and Luke Walton. Big difference in defense when Ariza is not there.
So the two guys you think are non-factors for the Lakers are in fact the BIGGEST factors on defense, which as you know is what wins rings. So please STFU and do some research before you post nonsense.
Ok stupid....lets dance.
What did Turiaf give you tonight?????
13 Points
8 rebound
2 Assists
and 3 Blocks.
2 less rebounds, and one more block and a slightly better assist number. I don't know....hmmmmm............seems you just went and proved me right when I said that Turiaf gave you exactly what you would of got from Bynum tonight. Thanks for the lesson in stupid. LOL.
Secondly, you better thank your lucky starts that Kobe was guarding TMac and Tmac played like a guy who logged two near 50 minute games recently. Because Ariza would of got smoked out by Tmac.
And thanks for acknowledging that "defense" wins les. Seems to me only two teams in the West play real, hardcore Defense. The Spurs and Rox. Your lakers are nowhere near, not even a sniff of doo doo in your grammamma's undies close to playing real Team Defense....with our without your non D playing star Gasol, and Bynum. Nuff said.
OH and uh....BTW
OWNED!!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280316010
Last edited by Dreamshake; 03-16-2008 at 08:56 PM.
Are you really this dumb Dreamshake? Are you really trying to prove that Ronny Turiaf is in any way equal to Andrew Bynum at the C position? Please answer these questions first before I completely and utterly own you.
The Mavs are a good defensive team. Not a great defensive team, but they can get stops. How you slight their defense and then tout Phoenix as a sleeper pick I don't know. As for "weak inside presence," they have four guys who can post up. They don't have a dominant back to the basket scorer, but they can get points in the paint, especially now that Kidd is here. Keep on touting that 0-5 record, it will change pretty soon. I don't put any stock in losing to the Rockets without Dirk, losing to the Hornets in Kidd's first game, and the other three were on the road and went to the wire. They could've easily gone the other way, and that was with Josh Howard beyond awful because of that back injury. Now he's back to form, and if we had that Josh in those games, we would've won them. I don't know how you can point to losing to the Spurs and Lakers on the road on their final possession, and going to the wire in Utah in their fourth game in five nights as evidence that they can't hang with the elite teams, especially since they're one themselves.
And as for the pop psychology, you have no idea what those guys are thinking. The idea that they're too fractured to do anything is belied by the fact that they're continuing to play hard and haven't packed anything in. They lost to Miami and Golden State because they couldn't stop Wade and Baron, and they couldn't run an effective half-court offense late in games. I'm not sure Kidd helps with the former but he damn sure helps with the latter.
Hate. It's what's for dinner.22-0 es!!!!!!
I strongly disagree that the Mavs are a good defensive team.
They are certainly no where on the level of a DET, SA, HOU, BOS, or even a NO.
Tim Duncan scores points against the Mavs as if he's playing a video game on his couch.
As you noted, they've been killed by Baron and Wade the last 2 yrs. The problem is to go through the west you have to stop or at least contain terrific guards, be that a NOH with Chris Paul, a HOU with TMac, a SAS with Manu/Parker, a Utah with Deron Williams.
Teams like Houston have Battier to throw at elite wings, SA: Bruce Bowen, LAL: Kobe Bryant.
The Mavs have never had this because they've been so focused on getting scorer after scorer after scorer. They have a team that's very poorly constructed. The Sum of the whole has never been more than the sum of the individual parts because they've never gone after role players to complement a couple stars. It's always been guys with very similar, redundant skill sets.
I really dont think you'll find any objective NBA fan who considers the Mavericks a good defensive team. I understand they are improved and are not awful as they were in the Don Nelson days, but they are just not going to scare any elite team with their D.
If you look at the history of the NBA, almost every championship team had a dominant big or was outstanding defensively. The Mavs are simply neither. Yes, Stack and Howard can post up. That just doesnt impact the game like a Duncan or a Gasol can in the post.
I applaud your devotion to the Mavs and I do agree that any team CAN win in the West. I just see the Mavs as the team least likely to. Maybe you are right and they'll catch fire. We shall see.
BTW, the Dirk out for the Houston game take is pretty weak given that:
1) The game was at home
2) It was a blowout (18 points or so I think)
3) Yao Ming was out for Houston.
You are right that the other games were close and down to the wire. I don't expect anyone to blow the Mavs off the floor but I dont see them having a run like 2006. Their schedule heats up IIRC. We'll see how they are in a few weeks.
Ball don't lie. They rank 10th out of 30 teams in defensive efficiency. That isn't great, but it certainly doesn't make them a bad defensive team.
He does that to everybody. He put up 32 and 15 in the playoffs two years ago and his team still lost to Dallas.Tim Duncan scores points against the Mavs as if he's playing a video game on his couch.
.The Mavs have never had this because they've been so focused on getting scorer after scorer after scorer
Right, which is why they used Nash's salary slot to sign Dampier. He's obscenely overpaid, but he has made Dallas a better defensive team.
Right, which is why they win 60+ games almost every year and have a Finals appearance with their current nucleus.They have a team that's very poorly constructed.
So guys like Dampier, Devean George, Antoine Wright, Tyronn Lue, these are star players with skillsets similar to Dirk, Josh and Jet?The Sum of the whole has never been more than the sum of the individual parts because they've never gone after role players to complement a couple stars. It's always been guys with very similar, redundant skill sets.
Dallas will come out of the West before Golden State, Houston, Denver and Phoenix does. Again, you slam the Mavs for being a bad defensive team, which they aren't, and Phoenix of all teams is your sleeper pick to win the West? Either defense is important or it isn't.I applaud your devotion to the Mavs and I do agree that any team CAN win in the West. I just see the Mavs as the team least likely to
Bobbyjoe you are flat out wrong when you say DAL is such a poor defensive team. They may not be at SAS level, but they are by no means a poor defensive team. Certainly no worse than PHX or NOH. Their problem IMHO has always been their offense has been too ISO oriented. Kidd seems to be a step in the right direction in that regard.
You don't win 67 games in the regular season or get to the NBA Finals with POOR defense. The Mavs playoff woes has largely been due to outcoaching IMHO, Avery simply got worked by Nelson last season.
Besides 2006, the Mavs have been a very dissapointing team in the playoffs. They've been the classic great regular season team which underwhelms in Spring.
On Dampier, Devean George, Wright, Lue, etc: Dampier is simply not a good or impactful basketball player. He's not a shotblocker, not a great rebounder, a 0 offensively, and basically a stiff. You know very well that Lue (has he even played yet?) and Wright are not even rotational players on Dallas so they just aren't a factor in how the team is built. George is a good role player, I will give you that and I do really like Brandon Bass' game.
However, dont let the rankings fool you. The Mavs may be 10th defensively but they do not have a strong perimeter defender or a strong post defender. And after Dampier, who is always in foul trouble or cant be kept on the court for heavy minutes (35-40) because he's so bad offensively, big frontcourts like SAS, LAL, probably even HOU (with Scola and Landry if he comes back) will pound Dallas inside.
Look at every big matchup Dallas had in the 5 game stretch with Kidd. They were embarassed defensively. That was the common thread. Like it or not, the Kidd trade made them weaker defensively. Harris could stay with quicker PG's, didnt get beat off the dribble as much or often as Kidd.
While Phoenix also has issues defensively, the reason I have them as a sleeper is they are really coming on lately. And they arent doing it only against the sisters of the poor like Dallas has been. Phoenix has had 2 very impressive wins against GS and SA.
Also, they DO Have a very good perimeter defender in Raja Bell who can affect the Kobe's, Manu's, TMac's, etc. They also have Shaq, who unlike Dampier, can still be intimidating defensively. Ultimately, the reason I pick the Suns over Dallas is Steve Nash: The guy has the heart of a champion and he will not go down without a fight. Kidd is a great PG too, but Nash is closer to the top of his game than Kidd is IMO. I also have a hard time ever betting against Shaq in the playoffs. The guy steps it up come May and June, always has.
Let them have their fun. They certainly deserve it, their teams have sucked for over a decade.
I'd expect this from Mavs and suns fans that haven't won anything. But Rockets fans should know better.
They should be ashamed of being in the midst of the second longest win streak in NBA history?
I'm not talking about 2006. In 2006 Diop was effective in guarding Duncan and later Shaq. He didnt play a ton of minutes but was still important as a rotational player.
Kidd improves the Mavericks offensively, no doubt. But it takes time to completely change from an ISO offense to one with better ball movement. I dont think a couple of months is enough. Kidd also makes them worse defensively because he can be beat off the dribble easier than Kidd. Who would you rather have containing a PG like Parker, Paul, or Deron Williams? Harris or Kidd?
I dont put a lot of stock always in stats. I know the Mavs rank slightly above avg in D, but what teams do you see having bigger trouble getting key stops in the playoffs? I grant you GS. Throw in Phoenix if you'd like. But after that, they are probably the weakest of the field. Not having a strong post defender and wing defender are problems in the playoffs in the 2008 West when you are going to be facing teams with Superstar/Allstar options across the board.
How would DAL possibly match up if they had to face a Duncan, Boozer or Gasol in the playoffs? I just dont see it...They'd have to win in shootouts night in and night out and that is tough come May and June, even with Kidd and Dirk.
I dont have the game scores, but I remember the Mavs really struggling on D when they faced that 5 game stretch of LAL, NOH, SAS, HOU after the Kidd trade. It seemed like they were giving up 100 plus each night.
Who said anything about being ashamed??
But they should know that 22 game winning streak doesn't equal NBA Championship.
who said 22 game winning streak = championship?Who said anything about being ashamed??
But they should know that 22 game winning streak doesn't equal NBA Championship.
sour grapes
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