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To be fair to Manny, I think there's a difference between saying all of gvt. f'ed up (which is fairly obvious) and the repeated attacks on Bush by some individuals (including minusplus).
Some breaking news...
Some telephone line workers got shot at today. They called in ATF, 82nd Airborne, US Marshalls, etc., followed this guy back to the Projects, busted in and caught the guy. Had multiple guns in his place.
I'm all for the firing squad on this one.
To be fair to Manny, I think there's a difference between saying all of gvt. f'ed up (which is fairly obvious) and the repeated attacks on Bush by some individuals (including minusplus).
new orleans will always be a dangerous place.
"I think it is pretty safe to say that all levels of government failed their cons uants. Horrible."Today 10:57 AM
smell it? that's right,it's you buddy.
I think one of George Bush's biggest problems is his tendancy to delegate and/or to have too much faith and loyalty in people at other levels of authority. In this case, he didn't delegate, he just foolishly expected the state and local authorities to be able to do their job. He tends to sit back and expect everything to fall in place. He has way too much confidence in the system and in others. He should have been all over everybody's ass right away.
Not all levels.. first responders have been really trying a lot .. on all levels. When you say "the government" it's not just 1 person(s).
oops. got a little political there. sorry
SAKES... presidents are supposed to delagate.. take your to the NBAdan forum...
Bush is not Clinton. get the over it...
He's the President of the US. Not some micro-managing middle management guy at a fortunte 500 company. Sheesh.he just foolishly expected the state and local authorities to be able to do their job.
Look jerk, you will notice that in my follow-up post I acknowledged that I had gotten a little political and actually apologized (something practically unheard of in this forum).There's no need to be such an overreactive and rude asshole.
BTW...who said anything about Clinton?? What is wrong with you? Why not just bring Eisenhower into the discussion?
In a major catastrophe like this, which is after all only the biggest natural disaster in American history, I don't think it's asking too much for the President to step up the bird-dogging.
I didn't take put a political spin on things, you did.
This thread has become pretty much become unbearable
continue.
I am just waiting for November to get here.
I concur.
Okay, how many of you who feel this way have ever led an organization of any size? I'm just curious. I ran three different organizations at A&M, and if I didn't do any delegation I probably wouldn't have made it through any of that. Not because I couldn't handle it, but because people develop an expertise on matters that as a leader and the face of an organization, you can't dive into as deep.I think one of George Bush's biggest problems is his tendancy to delegate and/or to have too much faith and loyalty in people at other levels of authority. In this case, he didn't delegate, he just foolishly expected the state and local authorities to be able to do their job. He tends to sit back and expect everything to fall in place. He has way too much confidence in the system and in others. He should have been all over everybody's ass right away.
And nothing that myself or anyone else posting here has done could even begin to approach the level of leadership required to lead a nation and the entire free world, and it goes without saying that he has to deal with the largest bureacracy in the world as well.
The people that you bag on Bush for trusting have probably forgotten more about dealing with natural disasters than he could ever know, and somehow you fault him for that.
I will agree that they did drop the ball, but thinking Bush is somehow negligent when the people he's trusted in matters like this have handled every disaster before in a suitable manner is sorely misguided, IMO.
Take Michael Brown, dude obviously f'ed this up, I think we can all agree on that. Last year he dealt with 4 hurricanes in Florida and the Gulf Coast, and also dealt with that wicked tornado outbreak in the Midwest I think it was either last year or the year before.
Given that (particularly dealing with FOUR hurricances last year), I don't think you can fault Bush for trusting the same guy leading the same organization to do the same job
Last edited by Aggie Hoopsfan; 09-07-2005 at 02:14 PM.
I concur.
Special Report
Get Off His Back (Updated)
By Ben Stein
Published 9/2/2005 11:59:59 PM
***UPDATED: Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005, 2:13 p.m.***
A few truths, for those who have ears and eyes and care to know the truth:
1.) The hurricane that hit New Orleans and Mississippi and Alabama was an astonishing tragedy. The suffering and loss of life and peace of mind of the residents of those areas is acutely horrifying.
2.) George Bush did not cause the hurricane. Hurricanes have been happening for eons. George Bush did not create them or unleash this one.
3.) George Bush did not make this one worse than others. There have been far worse hurricanes than this before George Bush was born.
4.) There is no overwhelming evidence that global warming exists as a man-made phenomenon. There is no clear-cut evidence that global warming even exists. There is no clear evidence that if it does exist it makes hurricanes more powerful or makes them aim at cities with large numbers of poor people. If global warming is a real phenomenon, which it may well be, it started long before George Bush was inaugurated, and would not have been affected at all by the Kyoto treaty, considering that Kyoto does not cover the world's worst polluters -- China, India, and Brazil. In a word, George Bush had zero to do with causing this hurricane. To speculate otherwise is belief in sorcery.
5.) George Bush had nothing to do with the hurricane contingency plans for New Orleans. Those are drawn up by New Orleans and Louisiana. In any event, the plans were perfectly good: mandatory evacuation. It is in no way at all George Bush's fault that about 20 percent of New Orleans neglected to follow the plan. It is not his fault that many persons in New Orleans were too confused to realize how dangerous the hurricane would be. They were certainly warned. It's not George Bush's fault that there were sick people and old people and people without cars in New Orleans. His job description does not include making sure every adult in America has a car, is in good health, has good sense, and is mobile.
6.) George Bush did not cause gangsters to shoot at rescue helicopters taking people from rooftops, did not make gang bangers rape young girls in the Superdome, did not make looters steal hundreds of weapons, in short make New Orleans into a living .
7.) George Bush is the least racist President in mind and soul there has ever been and this is shown in his appointments over and over. To say otherwise is scandalously untrue.
8.) George Bush is rushing every bit of help he can to New Orleans and Mississippi and Alabama as soon as he can. He is not a magician. It takes time to organize huge convoys of food and now they are starting to arrive. That they get in at all considering the lawlessness of the city is a miracle of bravery and organization.
9.) There is not the slightest evidence at all that the war in Iraq has diminished the response of the government to the emergency. To say otherwise is pure slander.
10.) If the energy the news media puts into blaming Bush for an Act of God worsened by stupendous incompetence by the New Orleans city authorities and the malevolence of the criminals of the city were directed to helping the morale of the nation, we would all be a lot better off.
11.) New Orleans is a great city with many great people. It will recover and be greater than ever. Sticking pins into an effigy of George Bush that does not resemble him in the slightest will not speed the process by one day.
12.) The entire episode is a dramatic lesson in the breathtaking callousness of government officials at the ground level. Imagine if Hillary Clinton had gotten her way and they were in charge of your health care.
God bless all of those dear people who are suffering so much, and God bless those helping them, starting with George Bush.
****
UPDATE: Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005, 2:13 p.m.:
More Mysteries of Katrina:
Why is it that the snipers who shot at emergency rescuers trying to save people in hospitals and shelters are never mentioned except in passing, and Mr. Bush, who is turning over heaven and earth to rescue the victims of the storm, is endlessly vilified?
What church does Rev. Al Sharpton belong to that believes in passing blame and singling out people by race for opprobrium and hate?
What special abilities does the media have for deciding how much blame goes to the federal government as opposed to the city government of New Orleans for the aftereffects of Katrina?
If able-bodied people refuse to obey a mandatory evacuation order for a city, have they not assumed the risk that ill effects will happen to them?
When the city government simply ignores its own sick and hospitalized and elderly people in its evacuation order, is Mr. Bush to blame for that?
Is there any problem in the world that is not Mr. Bush's fault, or have we reverted to a belief in a sort of witchcraft where we credit a mortal man with the ability to create terrifying storms and every other kind of ill wind?
Where did the idea come from that salvation comes from hatred and criticism and mockery instead of love and co-operation?
Ben Stein is a writer, actor, economist, and lawyer living in Beverly Hills and Malibu. He also writes "Ben Stein's Diary" in every issue of The American Spectator. Please click here to subscribe.
All that was missing from Mrs. Cunninghams diet that day was a taste of Juan Lopez' chalupa.
Ben Stein needs to check his facts on global warming. While there isn't concrete proof that it is man made by any means, there is very solid evidence this planet is warming at rate much higher than normal.
Venturing a little off-topic, but is the planet warming up not normal? I don't have the graphic on my computer, but I have seen a graph of ice boring logs that show that the planet has warmed and cooled in cycles for eons.
*Edit: I found this boring log from the Vostok ice core*
Over the last 400,000 years the Earth's climate has been unstable, with very significant temperature changes, going from a warm climate to an ice age in as rapidly as a few decades. These rapid changes suggest that climate may be quite sensitive to internal or external climate forcings and feedbacks. As can be seen from the blue curve, temperatures have been less variable during the last 10 000 years. Based on the incomplete evidence available, it is unlikely that global mean temperatures have varied by more than 1°C in a century during this period. The information presented on this graph indicates a strong correlation between carbon dioxide content in the atmosphere and temperature. A possible scenario: anthropogenic emissions of GHGs could bring the climate to a state where it reverts to the highly unstable climate of the pre-ice age period. Rather than a linear evolution, the climate follows a non-linear path with sudden and dramatic surprises when GHG levels reach an as-yet unknown trigger point.
Last edited by 1369; 09-07-2005 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Found the graphic
Well, maybe I'm reading your graphic wrong, but it sounds as thought that would be an argument FOR man made global warming?
Some of you seem to think I am blaming Bush. I'm not. But I am saying (and I'm hardly the only one) that he should have gotten more directly involved sooner than he did. Obviously the hurricane was not his fault, and I've said plenty of times that the local and state authorities shoulder most of the blame for this.
(and please don't anyone respond by explaining state vs. federal responsiblities. I already know that and have argued that side in many threads.)
The way I read it is that over the last 400,000 years the planet has cycled between warm and cold climates. While I admit that we probably aren't helping the matter with what we discharge into the atmosphere, our contribution pales in comparison to the natural forces at work.
Drive through Norco, CA, Kettlemen City, CA and right over the NM border on I-10 and you'll know why there's Global Warming.
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