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Maybe so, but I’d view shooting 45% with two hands as a worse shooting signal.
Where did I isolated the stats? If it’s so easy to isolate stats to prove your point why don’t you pull some to prove your point? Where is the sochan is at 5th percentile in ball handling and passing stats? I can find plenty of stats stating he’s a way below average or poor 3 pt shooter. I can find plenty of stats saying that he is a strong rebounder. I can also find plenty of stats saying he’s a terrible perimeter scorer. But I cannot find any stats saying he is a particularly poor ball handler, passer or athlete.
Maybe so, but I’d view shooting 45% with two hands as a worse shooting signal.
That's kind of the point...
That's because you rely on stats too much thinking you'll learn something out of them that your eyes can't see.
Also might just be the fact that there isn't a "stat" for every action/behavior on the floor (hence the need to look globally of those and not try to find a "specific" one. At best you get a trend, not a definitive truth.
Also because most ppl tend to treat correlations as if they were causation.
Again you learn that at school, but most of you either forgot or just never learned it.
You're probably also influenced by the medias/journalists who use those stats as content provider. They're super entertaining bc it makes idiots speaks too comfortably, they're amazing clickabaits.
You don't have any memory of Sochan struggling frequently below the rim when he wasn't being spoon-fed easy buckets?
No memory of embarrassing rim blocks? No memory of his TOs anytime he tried to post? No memory of easy passes he misses bc either lack of awareness or confidence in his passing abilities?
No memory of the Spurs passing game being more fluid when he was absent?
There are no stats that can tell you that better than your eyes.
Finally, it's not bc I point out his limitations and my pessimism regarding his improvements that I'm not aware of his strengths, as I said multiple times it's all about balance and to me Sochan costs more than he brings.
I think that if he played in a team with different style of play and needs he could shine, but Spurs are building around Wemby with the idea of positionless basketball and everyone being able to pass and score.
Sochan just doesn't fit and not "just" bc of his shooting limitations.
I could be wrong on this last point but usually when you listen to someone and observe him behaving you can have a pretty good idea of his level of intelligence, in that regard Sochan seems like a (friendly) moron most of the time I hear or watch him.
No idea if it's a lack of maturity of just low IQ but it's another reason I just don't want him to stay bc he'd slow down the process and lower the average BBIQ of the team
So essentially your eye test > stats again.
Yes, sochan made mistakes, many of them. So did castle, many of them as well. He’ll, even wemby did a whole lot of “what the is that?” The last two years. Difference is that most people don’t decide that these mistakes are uncorrectable. Players learn and improve and to say that he can’t finish around the rim because of an few occasions, rather than looking up to see he’s actually way above median in finishing around the basket is just being lazy and dishonest.
The ironic thing is, relying on moments of mistakes that were accentuated by social media of sochans embarrassing moments is the very definition of being manipulated by the media. You say I’m influenced by the media because of stats? Find me an article saying sochan is an acceptable ball handler and passer using stats. Go ahead.
Did you even take the time to read?
"making mistakes" is very different from "constantly struggling in diverses tasks" as he's shown again and again.
We're talking 3 seasons!, not just a rookie one. It's enough to have a trend long enough to draw conclusions
What do social media have to do with the topic? smh I was just referring to the over (mis)use and interpretations of stats by media and fans in general.
Did you just hoped I got my knowledge via Twitter? Its sound desperate fishing...
If i''m the 1st person you've ever heard saying one can makes stats say anything, you're confirming my point. It's never too late to educate yourself
It's used every daily by media, lobbies, politicians etc to build any narratives that suit them. If you haven't noticed it, it means you're being manipulated
Point is don't come to me with isolated stats as an argument, I'll never take you seriously and you'll keep making me laugh by asking me to bring you stats smh
Drafting Carter Bryant just put the fire on Sochan’s behind. I mean the kid is working to improve himself, but things got more real. Time to hit those outside shots Jeremy.
If he was constantly making these mistakes it will show up on the stats. If he’s constantly fumbling the ball his TO would sky rocket, if he constantly miss easy passes his passing metrics will be awful, but they arent even with low usage. So I’d like you to square that circle other than “because I said so”. You have constantly talked in circles by proofing whatever you assert to be right by using your assertions as proof. The funniest part is then saying I’m biased by cherry picking stats then fail to cherry pick your stats to prove the opposite. Then now you are saying straight out stats are wrong and thinking that they are right is a media fallacy. The way you prove you’re right on that? Because what you saw shows otherwise.Did you even take the time to read?
"making mistakes" is very different from "constantly struggling in diverses tasks" as he's shown again and again.
We're talking 3 seasons!, not just a rookie one. It's enough to have a trend long enough to draw conclusions
What do social media have to do with the topic? smh I was just referring to the over (mis)use and interpretations of stats by media and fans in general.
Did you just hoped I got my knowledge via Twitter? Its sound desperate fishing...
If i''m the 1st person you've ever heard saying one can makes stats say anything, you're confirming my point. It's never too late to educate yourself
It's used every daily by media, lobbies, politicians etc to build any narratives that suit them. If you haven't noticed it, it means you're being manipulated
Point is don't come to me with isolated stats as an argument, I'll never take you seriously and you'll keep making me laugh by asking me to bring you stats smh
Social media constantly featured sochan as the reason the spurs underperformed by showing clips of his mistakes. again, you are acting like other people don’t have social media and you are the only person who watch actual games. Come to think of it, you are talking like someone who only watch instagram highlights and form your opinions accordingly.
Doesn’t his continued overall Net negative rating point to some of these things about him being true? Just a wee bit.
He not the sole reason the Spurs underperform. He is a contributor to it though. Arguing otherwise seems kind of pointless at this time. Unless your Jermey’s burner account - then by all means have at it.
I don’t know why some of you get so emotional about the guy. Semi decent role player - if the Spurs are lucky. You’d think he’s prime Kawhi or something.
No it wouldn't
Decision-making isn't easy to quantify, you might find a few stats that cover part of those decisions but it's impossible to find any that are "exhaustive".
As for social media, I find a lot more emo defenders attacking any criticism than haters. Not even close
Another one of your confusion between correlation and causation btw, it's not social media creating fake AI videos influencing fans, just Sochan having regularly embarrassing moments. The power of the pictures doing the rest.
Even on ST, his defenders admitted that when he was absent, suddenly Spurs's offense was more fluid. It's not just me
Sochan ended up on the bench not just bc of his lack of shooting, Mitch and his staff aren't blind. For all his defensive abilities, his misses countless rotations and show a low BBIQ on both ends.
Anyway, you have your pov I have mine, I've detailed it enough now let's hope Carter Bryant put an end to this joke, it's time to build a proper Spurs team, with high IQ and passing
Tbh the idea crossed my mind
But no, that's just who she is, imo a bit contrarian and a lot emotionally attached to players drafted.
She had the same at ude regarding Tre Jones last season with the same type of brain contortion trying to explain how valuable Tre is and that he was a keeper smh
Exactly
He's shooting his 3 point shots with two hands.
Where is the emotion. It’s almost comical everytime someone disagree with something people somehow call them emotional, as if nobody has ever heard of gaslighting. We are all big boys here; no need to act like a teenager.
Glad you brought up net rating. Sochan was -1, wemby was +1, perhaps you’d like to explain to me why a semi decent role player is only 2 pts worse than our franchise player, whereas Harrison Barnes is somehow +10.
Of course it can be quantified. It would be called offensive rating, and his horrible outside shooting already addressed it. His lack of shooting crowds the spacing and the offence bogs down. You can go on and on about how sochan is somehow the rare player who’s plays absolutely mismatches with every stat you throw at him. I can see a few stats here and there being off, things happen, but when multiple stats tell the same story, perhaps the stats aren’t wrong in the first place.
And
Finally, you don’t know how social media short clips can cherry pick? Players have hundreds of plays every game, it o my takes a few to go viral for people to form a strong opinion. Only AI can do it? I’m not sure why this has to be explained, for someone who talks so condescendingly to everyone on the forum and act as someone who is so authoritative, this is just purely shocking.
And yet Tre averaged 11.5 and 5 with Chicago.Tbh the idea crossed my mind
But no, that's just who she is, imo a bit contrarian and a lot emotionally attached to players drafted.
She had the same at ude regarding Tre Jones last season with the same type of brain contortion trying to explain how valuable Tre is and that he was a keeper smh
Test Sochan for one more year or half a year
If no development, trade him
Wemby had some of the worse young player moments I've ever seen in a spur uniform and people act like the other kids are supposed to play perfect with less developmental time.
Sochan is a great prospect to have. It's always the people who ignore actual stats and facts that don't like him.
What I didn’t like was when he started hesitating to shoot. He would rim run and pushed just to stop at the key to pass. It was frustrating when he started hesitating like Ben Simmons. But now he’s working on his shots and even ball handling in traffic. I’m rooting for him because he’s a defensive big who could be perfect beside Wemby once his shots start falling.
This team needs good shooting at the 4. Sochan's ceiling is being a average shooter and even that is a long shot. He's not a starter and should never be tbh.
Agreed on all fronts. He is hurting himself by not shooting at all. Of course, if he's shooting 30% wide open, I wonder what he'd shoot covered. His release is also slow due to the hitch, so by the time he winds up that shot, anyone can go challenge the shot if they wanted to.
I am not entirely sure that is the case. Not everyone has to be a shooter on a winning team. Cason Wallace isn't a particularly accurate shooter, neither is Caruso, Hartenstein doesn't shoot at all. On the Pacers, Mathurin isn't dead-eye, Nembhard is actually a bad shooter, Ben Sheppard, even McConnell is bad, but the key is the willingness to shoot. The Spurs are further back, as other than Wemby, Barnes and Champaigne, nobody else is even an average shooter, so I understand why everybody is talking about shooting, but that shooting doesn't necessarily has to come from Sochan. Castle could improve, Harper could surprise, and if Fox gets his shooting from two years ago back, then this all of a sudden is a decent shooting team. Of course that's a lot of ifs, but it's not impossible.
You shouldn’t be shooting your jump shot with two hands either. The one handed FTs are training to take his left hand off the ball earlier, albeit a LOT earlier.
There's a surprising amount of that in here -- the visual interface is hardly the only "oldschool" thing about SpurstalkAnd yet Tre averaged 11.5 and 5 with Chicago.
I'll spell out the point more directly: if a guy is still using a gimmick to shoot free throws at a 70% clip, he's not the guy I'm going to bet on to become a good (or even serviceable) 3pt shooter
Will be very happy to be wrong
Didn't realize Sochan was ing Mya Mills tbh. I owe you an apology Jeremy, I wasn't familiar with your game…
The dude is scared to shoot wide open 3s in games. The scouting report for him is to let him shoot and not even run out to him at the 3 point line and he’s still scared to shoot. You can’t be scared to shoot and be a good starting player on this team. What people here don’t understand is that Sochan has constantly failed tests in his entire Spurs career. People may not think of this way but everything Pop did in his development was a test of sorts and Sochan failed them all.
Pop loved everything he saw at ude wise from Sochan. He tried desperately to find some sort of niche for Sochan so that he can be a starter. He moved him from SF to PF to PG back to PF and then small ball Center. But Sochan just isn’t that guy. It’s frustrating. It’s sad bc you can keep going down the rabbit hole of he is going to improve his shot. This is the season he’s going to butterfly and be a consistent shooter. But his mind is broken when it comes to shooting the ball. If you’re a shooter you forget the misses. But Sochan is scared. Like it’s a real life fear of him to shoot a 3 ball. It’s why he only attempted one per game despite being open for triple that number.
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