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  1. #401
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    But isn't that cyclical? I understood that the winds were slowing and then strengthening again over the last 24 hours, then slowing again, etc.

    Like I said hopefully it makes landfall before it can strenghthen itself. This hurricane has faked out everyone since it was a tropical depression.

  2. #402
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Ok, first of all the portion of the storm with winds compareable to an F3 tornado is about 30 miles wide. Those winds are concentrated around the eye. Hurricane winds extend out about 100 miles in each direction give or a take a few miles. So it won't be a 300 mile wide tornado, but the iner portions will be much like an F3.

    Secondly, the slow down is temporary and means nothing in regards to the strength at landfall. A Catagory 4 coming ashore is going to decimate the region. It is reletivly better than a cat 5, but the difference in the real world is compareable to being run over by a Tahoe instead of a semi. The point being you're still going to be pretty ed up.

    This storm will be at least a catagory four at landfall, and odds are that NO will not be what we know it as tomorrow.

  3. #403
    Get It Sparked Up SPARKY's Avatar
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    Well, it's the wind speed going around the eye that matters. A slower moving eye isn't a good thing in and of itself. If that slower 'directional speed' feeds into the windspeed running around the eye then good.

  4. #404
    Can handle TheTruth Ginofan's Avatar
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    Like I said hopefully it makes landfall before it can strenghthen itself. This hurricane has faked out everyone since it was a tropical depression.
    I thought the eye was too large at this point to undergo another replacement cycle?

  5. #405
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    There is almost no hope for this storm to weaken below catagory four status. It has weakend for now, but these things are cyclical and it could regain that strength or even gain more than it had before prior to landfall. No one really knows untill it happens with these storms, but do not mistake the falling windspeeds as a sign it is weakening.

    The fact is that the storm is so large and the eye is so large it simply cannot hold pressure that low, but if the eye contracts even a bit the winds will ramp right up again.

  6. #406
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I thought the eye was too large at this point to undergo another replacement cycle?
    Not nessecarily.

  7. #407
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    SYDNEY (Reuters) - U.S. oil prices surged to a record above $70 a barrel on Monday as one of the country's biggest storms tore through the U.S. Gulf of Mexico, forcing oil producers and refiners to shut down operations.

    U.S. crude oil futures soared nearly $5 a barrel in opening trade to touch a fresh peak of $70.80 a barrel, surpassing last week's $68 high to the highest price since the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX) began trading contracts in 1983.

    It later traded up $3.42 a barrel, 5.2 percent, at $69.55.

    Oil product and natural gas prices also shot higher to records, with gasoline soaring 10 percent to $2.13 a gallon and heating oil rocketing past $2 a gallon for the first time. Natural gas prices were up 20 percent.

    Prices leapt as Hurricane Katrina, the eleventh named storm of what is expected to be an unusually severe season, threatened to do lasting damage to the vital U.S. oil and refining region, further straining an industry that has struggled to keep up with two years of strongly rising oil demand.

    More than 40 percent of all U.S. Gulf of Mexico crude oil production was reported closed down as a result of the hurricane, with the total expected to rise significantly as more operators report affected production to the U.S. government on Monday.

    Katrina revved up to a maximum Category 5 hurricane at the weekend, far stronger than last year's Hurricane Ivan, which tore up platforms and pipelines along a very similar path through the Gulf, disrupting oil production for months.

    The U.S. Gulf of Mexico normally pumps about 1.5 million barrels per day (bpd) of crude, a quarter of domestic output and equivalent to nearly 2 percent of global oil production.

    "This is certainly reminiscent of Ivan last year," said David Thurtell, commodity strategist at the Commonwealth Bank of Australia.

    "We can expect two months of lost production, and coming in the peak demand period this is the worst possible news. The only way we can avoid yet higher prices is if
    President Bush releases supply from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve."

    The administration has said in the past it would release oil from the 700-million-barrel SPR only during a serious supply disruption, but has never given further details.

    In New Orleans, hundreds of thousands of residents were advised to leave as Katrina was expected to make landfall near the low-lying Gulf Coast city around sunrise on Monday.

    Apart from the impact on crude production, dealers fear the storm will tighten supplies of consumer fuels. Gasoline stockpiles are already at the low end of their seasonal norm.

    Seven southeast Louisiana refineries with a combined daily refining capacity of 1.449 million barrels of crude oil had shut down ahead of Katrina making landfall, an amount equal to 8.5 percent of total U.S. refining capacity.

    Two of those refineries near New Orleans -- the 190,000 bpd Chalmette Refining LLC and Murphy Oil Corp's 120,000 bpd Meraux plant -- appeared to be directly in the path of the storm.

    NO CUSHION

    Dealers are particularly concerned about damage as the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (
    OPEC) is already pumping at near its full capacity, leaving it little room to make up for any lasting outages.

    OPEC's president said at the weekend that soaring prices were of rising concern to the cartel, which controls half the world's oil exports, but that they should begin to eases as higher costs begin to curb demand.

    "OPEC will be exploring various options for the September meeting which will hopefully contribute to moderate prices," said OPEC President Sheikh Ahmad al-Fahd al-Sabah, also Kuwait's oil minister, in an English language statement in Kuwait City.

    He did not elaborate on the nature of these options. OPEC meets on Sept. 19 to chart output policy.

    Production elsewhere in the world was also under strain, with
    Iran's 90,000 barrel-per-day Nowruz oilfield, being developed by Royal Dutch/S , shut down owing to technical problems, a senior Iranian oil official was quoted as saying on Saturday.

    And in Ecuador, where output has only just returned to normal after being hobbled by a week-long protest, activists vowed on Sunday to resume protests within the next 48 hours if energy firms to not agree to increase local investment.

  8. #408
    Whoa. That's deep. spurschick's Avatar
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    I feel so horrible for those people. Those that are still there are at risk for their lives. Those that left will probably return to nothing. It makes you feel very helpless.

  9. #409
    It happens. Samr's Avatar
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    I'm getting ready to go to bed (so I can wake up earlier tomarrow and watch the landfall), and I cannot believe there is even a possibility of waking up and seeing what ammounts to a large lake where New Orleans used to be.

    The city was so historic, so cultured, and now it is in danger of becomming a articifical reef. In addition to the massive loss of life.

    It's erie to think about.

    It's sad.

  10. #410
    Ginobili Rules Manu20's Avatar
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    As of 10pm hurricane Katrina still has winds of 160mph with gusts to 195mph and moving NNW at 10mph.

  11. #411
    Dr. Pepper Johnny_Blaze_47's Avatar
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    I'm getting ready to go to bed (so I can wake up earlier tomarrow and watch the landfall), and I cannot believe there is even a possibility of waking up and seeing what ammounts to a large lake where New Orleans used to be.

    The city was so historic, so cultured, and now it is in danger of becomming a articifical reef. In addition to the massive loss of life.

    It's erie to think about.

    It's sad.
    I'm actually going to pull an all-nighter.

  12. #412
    Get It Sparked Up SPARKY's Avatar
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    http://www.nola.com/washingaway/thebigone_1.html


    THE BIG ONE


    A major hurricane could decimate the region, but flooding from even a moderate storm could kill thousands. It's just a matter of time.

    By Mark Schleifstein and John McQuaid
    Staff writers

    The line of splintered planks, trash and seaweed scattered along the slope of New Orleans' lakefront levees on Hayne Boulevard in late September 1998 marked more than just the wake of Hurricane Georges. It measured the slender margin separating the city from mass destruction.

    The debris, largely the remains of about 70 camps smashed by the waves of a storm surge more than 7 feet above sea level, showed that Georges, a Category 2 storm that only grazed New Orleans, had pushed waves to within a foot of the top of the levees. A stronger storm on a slightly different course -- such as the path Georges was on just 16 hours before landfall -- could have realized emergency officials' worst-case scenario: hundreds of billions of gallons of lake water pouring over the levees into an area averaging 5 feet below sea level with no natural means of drainage.

    That would turn the city and the east bank of Jefferson Parish into a lake as much as 30 feet deep, fouled with chemicals and waste from ruined septic systems, businesses and homes. Such a flood could trap hundreds of thousands of people in buildings and in vehicles. At the same time, high winds and tornadoes would tear at everything left standing. Between 25,000 and 100,000 people would die, said John Clizbe, national vice president for disaster services with the American Red Cross.

    "A catastrophic hurricane represents 10 or 15 atomic bombs in terms of the energy it releases," said Joseph Suhayda, a Louisiana State University engineer who is studying ways to limit hurricane damage in the New Orleans area. "Think about it. New York lost two big buildings. Multiply that by 10 or 20 or 30 in the area impacted and the people lost, and we know what could happen."

    Hundreds of thousands would be left homeless, and it would take months to dry out the area and begin to make it livable. But there wouldn't be much for residents to come home to. The local economy would be in ruins.

    The scene has been played out for years in computer models and emergency-operations simulations. Officials at the local, state and national level are convinced the risk is genuine and are devising plans for alleviating the aftermath of a disaster that could leave the city uninhabitable for six months or more. The Army Corps of Engineers has begun a study to see whether the levees should be raised to counter the threat. But officials say that right now, nothing can stop "the big one."

    Like coastal Bangladesh, where typhoons killed 100,000 and 300,000 villagers, respectively, in two horrific storms in 1970 and 1991, the New Orleans area lies in a low, flat coastal area. Unlike Bangladesh, New Orleans has hurricane levees that create a bowl with the bottom dipping lower than the bottom of Lake Pontchartrain. Though providing protection from weaker storms, the levees also would trap any water that gets inside -- by breach, overtopping or torrential downpour -- in a catastrophic storm.

    "Filling the bowl" is the worst potential scenario for a natural disaster in the United States, emergency officials say. The Red Cross' projected death toll dwarfs estimates of 14,000 dead from a major earthquake along the New Madrid, Mo., fault, and 4,500 dead from a similar catastrophic earthquake hitting San Francisco, the next two deadliest disasters on the agency's list.

    The projected death and destruction eclipse almost any other natural disaster that people paid to think about catastrophes can dream up. And the risks are significant, especially over the long term. In a given year, for example, the corps says the risk of the lakefront levees being topped is less than 1 in 300. But over the life of a 30-year mortgage, statistically that risk approaches 9 percent.

    In the past year, Federal Emergency Management Agency officials have begun working with state and local agencies to devise plans on what to do if a Category 5 hurricane strikes New Orleans.

    Shortly after he took office, FEMA Director Joe Allbaugh ordered aides to examine the nation's potential major catastrophes, including the New Orleans scenario.

    "Catastrophic disasters are best defined in that they totally outstrip local and state resources, which is why the federal government needs to play a role," Allbaugh said. "There are a half-dozen or so contingencies around the nation that cause me great concern, and one of them is right there in your back yard."

    In concert with state and local officials, FEMA is studying evacuation procedures, postdisaster rescue strategies, temporary housing and technical issues such as how to pump out water trapped inside the levees, said Michael Lowder, chief of policy and planning in FEMA's Readiness, Response and Recovery directorate. A preliminary report should be completed in the next few months.

    Louisiana emergency management officials say they lobbied the agency for years to study how to respond to New Orleans' vulnerability, finally getting attention last year.

    With computer modeling of hurricanes and storm surges, disaster experts have developed a detailed picture of how a storm could push Lake Pontchartrain over the levees and into the city.

    "The worst case is a hurricane moving in from due south of the city," said Suhayda, who has developed a computer simulation of the flooding from such a storm. On that track, winds on the outer edges of a huge storm system would be pushing water in Breton Sound and west of the Chandeleur Islands into the St. Bernard marshes and then Lake Pontchartrain for two days before landfall.

    "Water is literally pumped into Lake Pontchartrain," Suhayda said. "It will try to flow through any gaps, and that means the Inner Harbor Navigation Canal (which is connected to Breton Sound by the Mississippi River-Gulf Outlet) and the Chef Menteur and the Rigolets passes.

    "So now the lake is 5 to 8 feet higher than normal, and we're talking about a lake that's only 15 or 20 feet deep, so you're adding a third to a half as much water to the lake," Suhayda said. As the eye of the hurricane moves north, next to New Orleans but just to the east, the winds over the lake switch around to come from the north.

    "As the eye impacts the Mississippi coastline, the winds are now blowing south across the lake, maybe at 50, 80, 100 mph, and all that water starts to move south," he said. "It's moving like a big army advancing toward the lake's hurricane-protection system. And then the winds themselves are generating waves, 5 to 10 feet high, on top of all that water. They'll be breaking and crashing along the sea wall."

    Soon waves will start breaking over the levee.

    "All of a sudden you'll start seeing flowing water. It'll look like a weir, water just pouring over the top," Suhayda said. The water will flood the lakefront, filling up low-lying areas first, and continue its march south toward the river. There would be no stopping or slowing it; pumping systems would be overwhelmed and submerged in a matter of hours.

    "Another scenario is that some part of the levee would fail," Suhayda said. "It's not something that's expected. But erosion occurs, and as levees broke, the break will get wider and wider. The water will flow through the city and stop only when it reaches the next higher thing. The most continuous barrier is the south levee, along the river. That's 25 feet high, so you'll see the water pile up on the river levee."

    As the floodwaters invade and submerge neighborhoods, the wind will be blowing at speeds of at least 155 mph, accompanied by shorter gusts of as much as 200 mph, meteorologists say, enough to overturn cars, uproot trees and toss people around like dollhouse toys.

    The wind will blow out windows and explode many homes, even those built to the existing 110-mph building-code standards. People seeking refuge from the floodwaters in high-rise buildings won't be very safe, recent research indicates, because wind speed in a hurricane gets greater with height. If the winds are 155 mph at ground level, scientists say, they may be 50 mph stronger 100 feet above street level.

    Buildings also will have to withstand pummeling by debris picked up by water surging from the lakefront toward downtown, with larger pieces acting like battering rams.

    Ninety percent of the structures in the city are likely to be destroyed by the combination of water and wind accompanying a Category 5 storm, said Robert Eichorn, former director of the New Orleans Office of Emergency Preparedness. The LSU Hurricane Center surveyed numerous large public buildings in Jefferson Parish in hopes of identifying those that might withstand such catastrophic winds. They found none.

    Amid this maelstrom, the estimated 200,000 or more people left behind in an evacuation will be struggling to survive. Some will be housed at the Superdome, the designated shelter in New Orleans for people too sick or infirm to leave the city. Others will end up in last-minute emergency refuges that will offer minimal safety. But many will simply be on their own, in homes or looking for high ground.

    Thousands will drown while trapped in homes or cars by rising water. Others will be washed away or crushed by debris. Survivors will end up trapped on roofs, in buildings or on high ground surrounded by water, with no means of escape and little food or fresh water, perhaps for several days.

    "If you look at the World Trade Center collapsing, it'll be like that, but add water," Eichorn said. "There will be debris flying around, and you're going to be in the water with snakes, rodents, nutria and fish from the lake. It's not going to be nice."

    Mobilized by FEMA, search and rescue teams from across the nation will converge on the city. Volunteer teams of doctors, nurses and emergency medical technicians that were pre-positioned in Monroe or Shreveport before the storm will move to the area, said Henry Delgado, regional emergency coordinator for the U.S. Public Health Service.

    But just getting into the city will be a problem for rescuers. Approaches by road may be washed out.

    "Whether or not the Airline Highway bridge across the Bonnet Carre Spillway survives, we don't know," said Jay Combe, a coastal hydraulic engineer with the corps. "The I-10 bridge (west of Kenner) is designed to withstand a surge from a Category 3 storm, but it may be that water gets under the spans, and we don't know if it will survive." Other bridges over waterways and canals throughout the city may also be washed away or made unsafe, he said. In a place where cars may be useless, small boats and helicopters will be used to move survivors to central pickup areas, where they can be moved out of the city. Teams of disaster mortuary volunteers, meanwhile, will start collecting bodies. Other teams will bring in temporary equipment and goods, including sanitation facilities, water, ice and generators. Food, water and medical supplies will be airdropped to some areas and delivered to others.

    Stranded survivors will have a dangerous wait even after the storm passes. Emergency officials worry that energized electrical wires could pose a threat of electrocution and that the floodwater could become contaminated with sewage and with toxic chemicals from industrial plants and backyard sheds. Gasoline, diesel fuel and oil leaking from underground storage tanks at service stations may also become a problem, corps officials say.

    A variety of creatures -- rats, mice and nutria, poisonous snakes and alligators, fire ants, mosquitoes and abandoned cats and dogs -- will be searching for the same dry accommodations that people are using.

    Contaminated food or water used for bathing, drinking and cooking could cause illnesses including salmonella, botulism, typhoid and hepa is. Outbreaks of mosquito-borne dengue fever and encephalitis are likely, said Dr. James Diaz, director of the department of public health and preventive medicine at LSU School of Medicine in New Orleans.

    "History will repeat itself," Diaz said. "My office overlooks one of the St. Louis cemeteries, where there are many graves of victims of yellow fever. Standing water in the subtropics is the breeding ground for mosquitoes."

  13. #413
    Can handle TheTruth Ginofan's Avatar
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    Wtnt42 Knhc 290249
    Tcdat2
    Hurricane Katrina Discussion Number 25
    Nws Tpc/national Hurricane Center Miami Fl
    11 Pm Edt Sun Aug 28 2005

    There Are Conflicting Signals Regarding The Intensity Of Katrina.
    The Noaa Aircraft Near 00z Reported A Peak Flight Level Wind Of 155
    Kt...which Would Normally Correspond To 140 Kt At The Surface. The
    Pressure Remains Extremely Low...904 Mb At Last Report. On The
    Other Hand...the Stepped-frequency Microwave Radiometer...or
    Sfmr...suggested Winds Were In The 120-130 Kt Range...and Limited
    Dropsonde Data Also Suggested Something A Little Below 140 Kt.
    There Are Enough Questions About The Performance Of The Sfmr At
    These Speeds For Me To Stick With The Standard 90 Percent
    Adjustment For Now.

    There Have Been Some Modest Changes In The Structure Of Katrina Over
    The Last Several Hours. Recent Microwave Passes Show That An Outer
    Eyewall Is In The Formative Stages...and The Latest Ir Images Show
    A Less Well-defined Eyewall With More Evidence Of Outer Banding.
    The Noaa Hurricane Hunters Also Reported An Erosion Of The Eyewall
    In The Southwest Quadrant. These Observations Suggest That There
    Could Be Some Weakening Of Katrina Prior To Landfall. All This Is
    Relative...however...and Katrina Is Still Expected To Be Of At
    Least Category Four Intensity When It Reaches The Coast. An Eyewall
    Replacement At This Point Is Not All Good News...as They Are
    Generally Accompanied By A Broadening Of The Wind Field...so That
    Even As Katrina Weakens There Could Be An Increase In The Area That
    Experiences Major Hurricane Force Winds.

    There Has Been No Significant Change To The Track Forecast. The
    Initial Motion Is 335/9. Katrina Is Expected To Gradually Turn
    Northward Into A Break In The Subtropical Ridge Associated With A
    Large Mid-la ude Cyclone Near The Great Lakes. Model Guidance
    Remains Tightly Clustered...with The Nogaps Shifting Just A Bit
    East Of Its Previous Track. While There Is Great Significance For
    The City Of New Orleans In The Details Of The Track...track
    Anomolies Of 30-50 Miles Are Still Possible Even 12-18 Hours Out.

    Forecaster Franklin


    Forecast Positions And Max Winds

    Initial 29/0300z 27.6n 89.4w 140 Kt
    12hr Vt 29/1200z 29.2n 89.7w 135 Kt
    24hr Vt 30/0000z 31.8n 89.5w 85 Kt...inland
    36hr Vt 30/1200z 34.8n 88.1w 45 Kt...inland
    48hr Vt 31/0000z 37.7n 85.9w 30 Kt...inland
    72hr Vt 01/0000z 43.5n 78.5w 25 Kt...inland
    96hr Vt 02/0000z 50.0n 70.0w 25 Kt...extratropical
    120hr Vt 03/0000z...absorbed

  14. #414
    Generation ñ The sone's Avatar
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    this will not end well...

  15. #415
    Sleeping With The Original Axis of Evil hussker's Avatar
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    Hey THE SONE...Did you get your ENIGMA CD YET?

  16. #416
    Sleeping With The Original Axis of Evil hussker's Avatar
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    Sorry, I digress...Katrina and the Waves will be Walkin on Bourbon Street...no Sunshine there...

  17. #417
    Sleeping With The Original Axis of Evil hussker's Avatar
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    Cat's Is the best Karaoke place in the French Qtr. I will miss it! R.I.P. Cat's

  18. #418
    Dr. Pepper Johnny_Blaze_47's Avatar
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    PHOTOGRAPH BY MICHAEL AINSWORTH/DALLAS MORNING NEWS (August 28) NEW ORLEANS, LA -- Jackie Esquirol from New Jersey enjoys the rain and a Daiquiri on Bourbon Street in New Orleans as Hurricane Katrina approached on Sunday, August, 28, 2005. There was a 7 p.m. curfew, but some restaurant and bars remained open.

    -----

    I might as well just get it out of the way.

    I'd hit it like hurricane-force winds.

  19. #419
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    Why is that moron photographer still on buorbon street

  20. #420
    Can handle TheTruth Ginofan's Avatar
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    PHOTOGRAPH BY MICHAEL AINSWORTH/DALLAS MORNING NEWS (August 28) NEW ORLEANS, LA -- Jackie Esquirol from New Jersey enjoys the rain and a Daiquiri on Bourbon Street in New Orleans as Hurricane Katrina approached on Sunday, August, 28, 2005. There was a 7 p.m. curfew, but some restaurant and bars remained open.

    -----

    I might as well just get it out of the way.

    I'd hit it like hurricane-force winds.
    Stupid is the only word that comes to mind when I look at that picture.

  21. #421
    Dr. Pepper Johnny_Blaze_47's Avatar
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    Why is that moron photographer still on buorbon street
    Why are photogs in Iraq?

  22. #422
    Believe.
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    look at that bimbo ignoring the curfew. I hope the hurricane flattens her ass.

  23. #423
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    Why are photogs in Iraq?
    There's a difference between a warzone and a bigass wrecking ball from God

  24. #424
    Dr. Pepper Johnny_Blaze_47's Avatar
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    There's a difference between a warzone and a bigass wrecking ball from God
    If you can't figure out why journalists do what they do and why they do it, I'm not going to tell you.

  25. #425
    Whoa. That's deep. spurschick's Avatar
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    Local news is saying that Houston hotels are completely booked and a lot of people from NO have come here or are on their way. They said that hotels are receiving tons of calls from people checking on vacancies. I sure hope the hotels are offering decent, if not low, rates for these folks. I'm sure the gas alone has cost them more than enough.

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