Reply With Quote
Oberto was NOT a draft pick. He was a FA, and HE had the negotiating leverage. Apples and oranges. Second round picks take what they are offered or they off and play in Europe.
It wasn't just Oberto's contract that was the barometer...was Oberto as well.
2 years ago in the ULEB Cup playoffs Oberto pretty much dominated Javtokas. Oberto's team lost but it wasn't because Javtokas went off on Oberto or shut him down or anything...Oberto missed about 15 FT's.
And both Oberto and Javtokas looked to have more NBA ready games than Scola IMO...and Oberto matched up pretty well with NBA guys in International play.
Oberto was the barometer, more than just contractually...and based on his performance, I can see why the Spurs are just a tad nervous. True, S&J might perform better than Oberto at NBA level...then again, they might not. There's nothing based on Euroleague play to gurantee they will.
I honestly can't say I blame the Spurs for not wanting to give these unproven guys multi million dollar deals...and I don't see any NBA teams lining up to trade for their rights to give them those deals either.
These guys basically want more starting jack than the #1 pick in the draft. Not good business, and there's no gurantee either of these guys get us closer to a le than Rasho and Nazr.
For once...I kind of agree with the Spurs tightfistedness...Butler and Elson are more NBA proven than Jav or Scola.
Oberto was NOT a draft pick. He was a FA, and HE had the negotiating leverage. Apples and oranges. Second round picks take what they are offered or they off and play in Europe.
I'm just saying their agents probably referred to it during negotiations. Whether they were right to is a different question.
I don't know how much Oberto's play factored into Javtokas offers.and based on his performance, I can see why the Spurs are just a tad nervous.
For one thing Oberto was already known to be an undersized center while Javtokas has legit size. Oberto wasn't a shotblocker overseas coming in, he just continued that here. Javtokas is. Oberto was known more as a savvy player who made nice passes and was a 'crafty' type like you would expect from Argentina. He continued that here when he played.
They knew Oberto would be 30 years old coming in. Combined that with his lack of size and his lack of hops that were well do ented before his 1st NBA game I don't think his play was that big of a surprise here.
If they were the same kind of player, that I could believe as a factor. But as far as centers go they were pretty different.
Oberto was a better Euroleague Center than Javtokas...Period.
I agree that Javtokas has NBA athleticism...but that's still not justification to go give the guy a multimillion dollar deal right out of the shoot.
The 'instant gratification' folks are the ones who are aware of the fact Tim Duncan isn't getting any older and won't be around forever.
Some of you speak and defend the front office like we've still got ten more years of Tim, Tony, and Manu all in their prime.
He was a free agent and had more than one team bidding for him, so his market price was higher.so did they pay Oberto the LLE?
Oh snap, they paid him more. Ooops.
Oh snap, that's what happens when you're a FA. Oooops.
For someone with the user name of 'objective' you sure seem to have your panties in a bunch over Javtokas.
We've had four years of the Musketeers already, and have four more years of all of them under contract. Shaq and Kobe were together 8 years and got 3 rings. Our trio has two already, halfway through their run together. I like our chances, and frankly, if it's over in 2010, I like the front office not "Knicking" themselves with ty contracts if they have to rebuild. Your mileage may vary. There wasn't much out there, and frankly, any team with Tim and two other All Stars can win it any year.[/common sense]Some of you speak and defend the front office like we've still got ten more years of Tim, Tony, and Manu all in their prime.
And what was Javtokas costing? Nothing shows that he was asking for more than Elson's offer, if that.
Javtokas has all the tools to be a good defensive center in the NBA. The comparisons to Oberto's production are a bit far-fetched, since Oberto simply lacks the athleticism to be very productive in the league. Oberto's contract hurt Javtokas badly, not because Oberto didn't do anything, but because it was simply there as dead weight. Without it, they could take a chance on him. Not a bad chance, at that.
Snap, they BOTH had more than one team bidding for them. Simple facts are both had offers to consider that they were eligible to take.He was a free agent and had more than one team bidding for him,
CASE CLOSED
We are talking about more than one NBA team courting Oberto.
I'm not talking about some Euro team that most of the world could give two s about offering him money, especially when all the taxes over there take about 40% of his pay out of his wallet before he has a chance to spend it.
The alpha dogs always want to be in the NBA, and right now it looks like that's not a high motivation for Jav, which is all the more disappointing considering what the Spurs franchise did for him medically after he got in his dumbass motorcycle accident.
Agg-- stop putting motivations in the head of Javtokas. By all appearances he wanted to play for the Spurs this year.
And Memphis was bidding for Oberto last year, too.
so you admit that both Oberto and Javtokas had million+ offers from various teams that would increase their value by teams bidding against each other?We are talking about more than one NBA team courting Oberto.
I'm not talking about some Euro team that most of the world could give two s about offering him money, especially when all the taxes over there take about 40% of his pay out of his wallet before he has a chance to spend it.
btw, it's largely accepted that there's odd tax issues overseas, eg when a team signs a player for x amount it also pays the taxes on that amount. So when a team announces a guy at 1 million it's really 1.7 or whatever but they report the takehome.
That's why some people think the PAO offer isn't really 2 million US but closer to 3 million.
There's a thread on a euro forum talking about team's salary budgets and PAO is a team that is discussed with an actual budget of 17 million euros including taxes and bonuses
that is an arguement which objectively makes sense and is reasonable. He wouldn't be playing if not for the Spurs. Maybe the Spurs expected a thank-you discount and that's why they offered him less than he and his agent expected, as opposed to the market value.all the more disappointing considering what the Spurs franchise did for him medically after he got in his dumbass motorcycle accident.
I think this is highly likely.
Of course they offerred him the LLE and expected him to take it. Ultimately if he's as good as everyone thinks he is he's in for an enormous pay raise in two seasons.
The money he got in Greece is as much as he's ever going to get over there.
At the same time, Rudoy likely thought he was in a better bargaining position since the Spurs currently had no center.
If Javtokas wants to come to the NBA, he needs to take the LLE and STFU. If I'm the Spurs, that's my first and last offer. I can even understand Scola asking for more because of his huge buyout, but Javtokas has no excuse to not take the LLE.
There should be no negotiations. Especially considering that the LLE is more than most first round picks make.
The market doesn't bear that out anymore. If the Spurs keep offering guys the LLE, they'll never get overseas talent. Macijauskas, Anthony Parker, Garbajosa, and Oberto have blown that out of the water.
But what if the Spurs didn't offer him that?
The only other thing they could have offerred at that time is the minimum -- and even I don't think they are that cheap.
None of those guys had their rights held by an NBA team when they signed. There is a HUGE difference. It'd be dumb business to start a bidding war with Euro teams. If the player wants to come to the NBA, they come. If not, let them rot in Europe.
If Javtokas thought he was going to succeed in the NBA, he'd take whatever he could get because he'd know that after the two seasons, he'd be able to cash in. Any center who can walk and chew gum gets paid 10 times more than what he could get in Europe. That Javtokas wanted his millions up front lets me know what he thinks of his own ability.
It's like earlier this summer when he said that he didn't know if he wanted to come to the Spurs because he didn't see how he'd get minutes. That's not the type of player I want on this team.
It's like with Scola- people claimed he wanted the whole MLE and that it was outrageous and then it came out that all he wanted was the $3M/year that Elson is getting. I have found no indication that Javtokas was offered and turned down the LLE. When you find it, let me know.
You're a brilliant guy when it comes to sour grapes.
Rationalizations aside about Javtokas, and Javtokas aside, the Spurs are recognizing that the market is getting expensive and simply don't want to play. They lowballed Javtokas, perhaps out of the same spirit of bitterness you evince, and will probably pay for it a little because they weren't willing to give him another $500K-$1M a year.
In the future, they'll face the same problems with attracting talent. Most likely they'll let the Torontos of the world outbid them in open markets, and watch their late 2nd rounders return home, bewildered that they aren't being offered market value. The Spurs are chintzy. This is why they drafted Mahinmi in the first round, to lock him into a very low rate. In the future, we should expect to pull more long-term internationals with late firsts.
All this is moot, since we're not even sure they showed him the LLE.
Since the LLE is what they offerred Manu (whom I believe had a buyout), I have no reason to believe the Spurs offered Javtokas $395,000 instead. If you find that, let me knw.
Manu got the LLE because that is ALL the Spurs had that summer.
This is why they drafted Mahinmi in the first round, to lock him into a very low rate.
You wanted them to trade up for a guy no one even heard of?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
