Spurs' future draft picks

[Mr. Body]

To force a team into a contract that is offered as a honored formality is a bad faith move that would not only put that player on shaky footing with that team, but could put any future contracts in a bad light.

[Bruno]

To force a team into a contract that is offered as a honored formality

It's not a formality.

Do you realize that if Spurs don't like Mahinmi or think that he sin't worth a first round pick contract, they can renounce to his nba rights ?
You had to choose : either you like a player and offer him a contract or you don't like a player and you let him free to sign with another team. You can't have both.

And before using the bad faith tag, think at that : if Mahinmi has tomorrow a carreer ending injury, he won't earn his nba contract money. By staying in europe for two years, he has taken the risk to lose a lot of money.

[Mr. Body]

It's not a formality.

Do you realize that if Spurs don't like Mahinmi or think that he sin't worth a first round pick contract, they can renounce to his nba rights ?
You had to choose : either you like a player and offer him a contract or you don't like a player and you let him free to sign with another team. You can't have both.

And before using the bad faith tag, think at that : if Mahinmi has tomorrow a carreer ending injury, he won't earn his nba contract money. By staying in europe for two years, he has taken the risk to lose a lot of money.

I don't think you're following the discussion. We're talking about these contract formalities Mahinmi apparently is receiving every summer so the Spurs retain his rights. If he turned around and signed one of those contracts, when they explicitly do not want him quite yet, that would be characterized as a bad faith contractual move on his part. This has nothing to do with the Spurs thinking or not thinking he is worth a first round pick or renouncing his rights. Future injuries on his part is inconsequential to what we're talking about, which is specifically these contract formalities happening last and this summer and how it would be regarded if Mahinmi suddenly signed and made those formalities official.

[Bruno]

I don't think you're following the discussion. We're talking about these contract formalities Mahinmi apparently is receiving every summer so the Spurs retain his rights. If he turned around and signed one of those contracts, when they explicitly do not want him quite yet, that would be characterized as a bad faith contractual move on his part. This has nothing to do with the Spurs thinking or not thinking he is worth a first round pick or renouncing his rights.

RIF : I've said first round pick contract.

You call that contract formalities but it's not a formality.
If you want to retain draft rights to a player, you must be ready to give a contract to this player. Is it that hard to understand ?

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#44
Bulls weren't ready to give Knight a contract and they have renounced to him.
Making a tender offer isn't something automatic, it's a choice.

The bad faith move would be that Mahinmi say to Spurs that he will stay in europe and then sign the tender contract.
If Mahinmi say before Spurs make the tender offer that he will sign it, it's not at all a bad faith. It's up to Spurs to decide if they will do it or not.

[Mr. Body]

With Mahinmi's relationship with the Spurs, if they put a formal contract in front of him this summer and he signs it, that is bad faith. This really isn't that hard.

[ducks]

I'm with Kori here: Scola will be traded and to a team that wants him over right away. He'll be seen in an NBA uniform next season, but not as a Spur.

Question is what they get for him.

brewer

[Bruno]

With Mahinmi's relationship with the Spurs, if they put a formal contract in front of him this summer and he signs it, that is bad faith. This really isn't that hard.

I will be slow because you have a lot of diffiulties to understand.

Step by step :

- Mahinmi says that he wants to play in nba next year.
- Spurs have to decide if they are ready to give him a first round pick contract :
- If they aren't ready, they will renounce to him. Mahinmi will becom a free agent and try to sign with another team
- If they are ready, they will sign him.

Spurs' can't make a tender offer, knowing Mahinmi wants to play in nba, and hoping that he won't sign it. It makes no sense at all.

Tender offer is a formal contract as long as the player agrees to stay overseas. As soon as the player wants to play in nba, it's no more a formality because it prevents the player to sign with another team.

[ArgSpursFan]

if this kid mahimni wants to play in the NBA next year,he needs to start showing what he is made of in Europe ,but right now!
For what Ive seen from him this year,He wont be able to play even in the Dleague.Sorry Ian.

[Mr. Body]

Bruno, I haven't seen anywhere that Mahinmi insists on playing in the NBA next year. He has done nothing to force the Spurs' hand one way or another, whether to bring him over or else renounce his rights. He is in no absolutely no position to do so, and if he has made any sounds otherwise, he's an idiot. That said, if he decides to trick the Spurs into signing him this summer as you claim he should/will, well, that's just about unprecedented. It's bad business all around, will show him in a bad light, as well as his agent. In fact, his agent stands to be hurt the most from that kind of bush league play.

[Darkwaters]

if this kid mahimni wants to play in the NBA next year,he needs to start showing what he is made of in Europe ,but right now!
For what Ive seen from him this year,He wont be able to play even in the Dleague.Sorry Ian.

Do you really think his euro team is going to give him serious minutes considering his status with the Spurs. They aren't going to waste a whole lot of energy developing a guy that will likely be gone in 12-24 months when they have other more long-term prospects.

[T Park]

if this kid mahimni wants to play in the NBA next year,he needs to start showing what he is made of in Europe ,but right now!
For what Ive seen from him this year,He wont be able to play even in the Dleague.Sorry Ian.

The team wouldn't hardly play him, so id say that assumption is unfounded.

[mountainballer]

As I mentioned above, any team wanting to trade for Scola would in all likelihood be put in heavy contact with his agent, so they'd know his demands.

yes, but I was just asking, if there are some restricitions for something like that. because in fact the other team would negotiate the contract with Scola and there are restrictions for such actions. so my question was, if the Spurs can give permission, that another team negotiates with Scola.

I mentioned in the Herrmann thread, that Spurs fans should be happy about the recent great play of Herrmann, because this also somehow raises the value of Scola's rights, considering that Scola is the far more talented player.
if the Bobcats are interested, because they fell in love with the Argentinian school of basketball, it would be the perfect situation.
(yes, they have 3 PFs under contract, but Harrington isn't part of the rotation any more and likely will get traded or waived, May looks more and more like one of thoses injury prone players, who misses half of every season with several injuries, Okafor might have to play more center, if Brezec leaves, etc.). so Bobcats might be interested. and since the Ely trade we know, that Spurs know Bickerstaff's number.

there would be several possible scenarios:
Bobcats trade the Raptors pick to Spurs for Scola's rights.
(the perfect deal for the Spurs, I guess they wouldn't hesitate to do this)
the pick for Scola + Spur's 2nd rounders. (also a good deal)
Bobcats trade the pick for Scola's rights + Buck's 2nd rounder.
(so virtually we trade up from no.33 to no.22, still a nice output of Scola's rights)
the pick for Scola + Spurs 1st rounder (trade up of 6-7 spots).
this is IMO something the Bobcats wouldn't hesitate to do. they will get a top player out of this draft anyhow, the 2nd pick will be used for a complementary player, they will also be able to find with the Spurs 1st rounder. Scola would be like an additional 1st rounder.
question: would the Spurs do this, to win 6 or 7 spots?
(considering, that it would usually take another late 1st rounder to move up that much, Scola's rights would be rated like a late 1st.) this wouldn't be a great deal, but at least Spurs get something out of his rights.

[AFBlue]

Do you really think his euro team is going to give him serious minutes considering his status with the Spurs. They aren't going to waste a whole lot of energy developing a guy that will likely be gone in 12-24 months when they have other more long-term prospects.

Actually that's the case with Pau....they've got this Vaty kid that they're looking to develop. Wherever he goes, it would obviously be best for his development if he gets on-court time or specific attention. IMO, the best place for him to be is NBADL, but that would mean he takes up a roster spot.

Side Note:

I wish the NBA would amend their roster rule concerning NBDL players and make it more like the MLB and it's minor league system. A team should be able to carry 18-20 players on their total roster, but only be allowed 15 at the NBA-level. If the team wants to bring up an individual (because of injury, etc.), they'll have to send someone down. For example, assume Mahinmi is in the NBDL and Elson goes down with a season-ending injury...the Spurs could bring up Mahinmi for depth and send down White.

This would build up the NBDL base and promote stability within both systems, making it more like a true minor-league system.

[mountainballer]

Actually that's the case with Pau....they've got this Vaty kid that they're looking to develop.

sorry to counter this, but I have now several times read this "Pau wants to develope Vathy and that's why Ian doesn't get playing time" myth.
this is just not the case.
Ian's struggle doesn't have anything to do with Vathy.

Pau signed Ian, because their coach Gordon Herbert, who has a close connection to the Spurs (summer league) convinced Ian to sign with them and Spurs also adviced Ian to do so.
Ian himself had preferences to sign with LeMans, but was persuaded to chose Pau.
Pau signed him, because they thought they sign a rising star, who helps them to achive their two targets: to win the French league le and to reach the Euroleague top 16.
they knew at that moment, that Ian will go to NBA and they already had Vathy on their roster, who plays for their youth programm.
Vathy is still playing for Pau's youth (espoirs) team this season.

the whole story is completly different:
Ian was projected to be the starting PF for Pau this season and he was part of the starting line-up for the first 8 weeks. Ian was completly overchallenged in this role, so Pau hired Michael Wright, a former Knicks pick, who never made it to the NBA and was a journey man in Europe and recently played in South Korea.
Ian's role and minutes just went to him, Ian ended as the back-up, playing reduced minutes, which he sometimes further reduced by himself by fouling out almost within a few seconds.
(and no Pau didn't suddenly decide to now "develope" Wright. he has a one year contract and as usual he will likely leave the team this summer)
not a single of Ian's minutes went to Vathy, as now is mentioned in an almost conspirency theory against Ian.
Ian just didn't play good enough to keep his spot or to win it back again.
end of story.
people here can like it or not, but an unpleasant fact doesn't turn into a story we would better like to hear by cooking up a legend.

i already got a lot of bashing on this board, just because I told the my impression and not always list up even inapplicable reasons why Ian couldn't ever have done better this year.
I can't help, this is what I saw. and it wasn't a future NBA player. I wish I could tell another story and I wish that a miracle happens, that proves me wrong.

[Mr. Body]

there would be several possible scenarios:
Bobcats trade the Raptors pick to Spurs for Scola's rights.
(the perfect deal for the Spurs, I guess they wouldn't hesitate to do this)
the pick for Scola + Spur's 2nd rounders. (also a good deal)
Bobcats trade the pick for Scola's rights + Buck's 2nd rounder.
(so virtually we trade up from no.33 to no.22, still a nice output of Scola's rights)
the pick for Scola + Spurs 1st rounder (trade up of 6-7 spots).

I'm not sure Scola was worth a first rounder straight up in a bad year - hard to tell. Obviously that would be best. If the Spurs could move up the Milwaukee pick into the first round using Scola, that would be aces, but I honestly don't know what Scola is worth. Looking at it, Scola for the #22 does seem reasonable. The Spurs could try to turn around and trade the 22 and 28 up into the teens, but that may be tough. Teams don't have a lot of roster spaces lying around.

[mardigan]

Marcus Williams from Arizona has declared for the draft today

[Mr. Body]

Marcus Williams from Arizona has declared for the draft today

Word was Lute was pushing him out the door. Mid to late first round. Good for the Spurs, but the SFs the Spurs need aren't falling that far, anyway.

[mountainballer]

Marcus Williams from Arizona has declared for the draft today

good news.
the question is, would the Spurs consdider him, if he falls to the 28th spot?
skills and size are there (nbadraft writes about a 7-1 wingspan) and he is an above average rebounder.
on the downside he isn't an outstanding athlete, not a good defender and his at ude is also a question mark.
so rather no. best case is, he is picked around 20 and pushes another SF down the board to our hands. (Byars, McGuire)

[AFBlue]

good news.
the question is, would the Spurs consdider him, if he falls to the 28th spot?
skills and size are there (nbadraft writes about a 7-1 wingspan) and he is an above average rebounder.
on the downside he isn't an outstanding athlete, not a good defender and his at ude is also a question mark.
so rather no. best case is, he is picked around 20 and pushes another SF down the board to our hands. (Byars, McGuire)

According to Chad Ford's analysis, Williams is a great defender. I take this to mean that he has the ability (wingspan, etc.) to be a great defender, but maybe he doesn't always have the motivation (questionable work ethic).

Again, I think the Spurs have a 2/3 prospect in White, and if they can get youth at another position, it might be best not to use draft picks on players with similar skill sets.

[Mr. Body]

Williams is an average defender to above average. That that Arizona team sucked so much this year with a good amount of talent smirches him up a bit, considering he was their top talent. I don't think he's a Spurs player, but the true value is that he pushes someone else down a spot.

[AFBlue]

Williams is an average defender to above average. That that Arizona team sucked so much this year with a good amount of talent smirches him up a bit, considering he was their top talent. I don't think he's a Spurs player, but the true value is that he pushes someone else down a spot.

Actually, Chase Budinger is the one on that team who would likely go the highest if he declared....did he say difinitively what he's doing? Any news on Chase?

[Mr. Body]

Actually, Chase Budinger is the one on that team who would likely go the highest if he declared....did he say difinitively what he's doing? Any news on Chase?

I meant that Williams was the 'leader' of the team, or should have been, not necessarily having the most potential. But he was passive, Shakur crapped out, and it was left to Radenovic to valiantly struggle on.

[ArgSpursFan]

The team wouldn't hardly play him, so id say that assumption is unfounded.

If he is not good enough right now to get minutes in a mediocre team in Europe.Do you really think He´ll show Pop He deseves to play in the NBA?

[Bruno]

i already got a lot of bashing on this board, just because I told the my impression

You have been bashed because you speak about a subject you obviously don't know.

You speak about a team and you don't know the names of the player. It's Vaty, not Vathy. Will I be credible if I speak about Spurs and Brice Bowan ?

You speak about a team and you don't know at what post players are. Mahinmi and Wright are C with pau, not PF. Will I be credible if I called Horry a SF ?

You speak about a team and you don't know what happened with this team. Mahinmi never sign to be a starter with Pau, he signed as backup C behind Hiram Fuller. After they failed to sign Fuller and after Mahinmi good summer league, they decided to give the starting spot to Mahinmi but he failed and then they signed Wright. Will I be credible if I say that Spurs have signed Vaughn as starting PG ?

[AFBlue]

Any chance Tiago Splitter drops to the end of the first round because of buyout concerns and scouts souring on him? He's smart, has good post skills, plays good defense, and he would allow the Spurs the opportunity to trade Scola's rights and get something in return...what do you think?