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The reason I say keep Kerr is because there aren't any better alternatives. If Sarver is control freak over his friend, then he'll be a control freak over anyone.
Remember that it's pointless to get rid of Kerr if the new GM isn't any better.
I do fault Sarver. I hate Robert Sarver. However, Kerr hasn't shown the ability to construct a team, nor shown the backbone to stand up when Sarver is hurting the team... you say keep him, but the problem is Sarver is likely to continue being the Suns owner, so if he can't succeed under him now, then how will he in the future? Sarver is unlikely to become any less of an cheap ass and this team is only getting less and less talented as each year passes.
If I had my choice, absolutely I'd choose Sarver to depart of the two. However, Sarver the likeliest of the two to stick things out, and if Kerr han't figured out how to manage under Sarver early when he had a ton of fan support and a good team to build upon, then I'm afraid Kerr is unlikely to improve when fan support wanes and wins cease to exist.
The reason I say keep Kerr is because there aren't any better alternatives. If Sarver is control freak over his friend, then he'll be a control freak over anyone.
Remember that it's pointless to get rid of Kerr if the new GM isn't any better.
If the Suns are gonna get rid of Amare they better come up with something BIG. Amare is a one-of-a-kind talent that cant easily be replaced. He has all the tools--just not the motivation. D'Antoni is a soft coach. Terry Porter should be coaching the WNBA--he seriously is ing useless. Give the Suns a HC w/ some respect and they'll get the best out of Amare
I'm not sure about being cheap, I always thought the suns had one of the higher payrolls in the league?
It's a cheap bas indeed who can still be cheap while spending money.
Sarver sold off/traded every single draft pick the Suns owned or acquired except the Tucker selection of 2007 and the Lopez selection of 2008. And were not talking just one or two other picks. Try upwards of double-digit 1st-rounders.
This, plus trading inexpensive/veteran quality in James Jones, Kurt Thomas and Jim Jackson, low-balling Joe Johnson three times vs. market-value, letting quality role players like Tim Thomas, Steven Hunter and Eddie House leave for reasonable rates elsewhere - and now - finally, the rumors of Sarver being more concerned with expiring contracts than talent and picks in an Amare deal.
amare is gonna be traded but can hardly get a player in return who is as good as amare. trading him for several role players won't make a big difference to suns team which is already filled with plenty of good role players.
I would asked the rockets for a trade that will send suns yao for amare, if i were terry porter. Our rockets team sucks and most of the fans just blame tmac to our sucking performances, but they didn't notice that yao is also a .
The Suns don't have many role players, we just have a lot of scorers. It seems like our FO has always been about creating the best starting 5 in the league, rather than worrying about building a solid bench with guys that can shoot 3's, defend, rebound, do the intangibles, etc.
Like JMark mentioned, Sarver and Co. have made a habit of undervaluing these types of players. Why not keep Eddie House, who single-handedly won 5 or 6 games the season we had him? James Jones slumped from long range, but he was a really good defender. Kurt Thomas was the only reason we were in the '07-'08 season, yet we get rid of him and a few draft picks in the following offseason?
Ya, pre Kerr, thing that got my goat the most was Joe Johnson getting away. He would have left to start somewhere eventually but if they paid him well for a couple more years, that probably would have put the suns over the top.
Trading James Jone and Kurt Thomas along with three 1st-rounder, one of which was Rudy Fernandez happened under Kerr. Maybe he couldn't have done a damn thing about it, but when you just seemingly roll over and trade picks and players like that then you're no better, and probably guilty by association.
You're not making any sense, he works for Sarver. If Sarver tells him to do something job related, he needs to do it. It's that simple.
I'm making plenty of sense. Yeah, ultimately it could get him fired, but he was supposed to be a voice of reason and his first two trades on the job find him continuing the firesale. A real GM stands firm on things. Kerr has yet to be anything but a puppet for Sarver. Whether it's Sarver's ideas or not, Kerr is stll rolling over, rather than keeping the best interest of the team in mind. As the GM, he needs to insist on something when it's detrimental to the team.
I have yet to see him do anything to sway Sarver. Yeah, that's mostly Sarver, but if you're not part of the solution, then your part of the problem and to me, the problems must go.
Thank god the Spurs have a great coach who can shape players' characters.
Amare was pure beast back in the day but then kinda quit growing.
With this same logic and a trickle-down effect, then Porter is safe as well... he works for Kerr, can be fired by Kerr, and Kerr wants Shaq to be the focal point. Right now he is and the Suns aren't winning. So is Porter safe simply because he's doing Kerr's bidding?
I will not ask if I just stumbled into yet another reason for Kerr to be fired.
, you could probably even apply this trickle-down logic to take the blame off Nash and Amare for their inability on the offensive end all of a sudden. They play for the coach, who wants to make Shaq the focal point, which takes them out of their games. Are they now excused for their inconsistent offensive play because obeying the coach minimizes their effectiveness?
It's a reach, but you can extend this to Amare's apathy on defense as D'Antoni failed to develop and emphasize this. If Amare would make a silly foul, he'd get admonished on the sideline and pulled. This cultivated his inability and lack of desire. Amare couldn't play as agressive for fear of fouls and their consequences. Is Amare justified because his boss told him to nevermind defense to the point that it's poisoned his mentality owards the game?
Ultimately the player is responsible for his failings, as is the coach, as is the GM. Yes, Sarver is the prime culprit here, but nobody with fault should escape blame.
I'm actually surprised that someone as gung-ho about player accountabilty and know-how excusing Kerr's mistakes because of his boss and lack of experience.
I'd cringe if Pop ever got a hold of him and was able to keep duncan...
Good look finding a GM who cares more about the team than keeping his job.
I'm not excusing Kerr's mistakes.....I'm saying he's done nothing to prove that he's a bad GM with complete control of decision making and that anyone would be a horrible GM if they knew they would be fired by going against Sarver's wishes.
To some extent Porter's faults do rest on Kerr, and a large amount of Amare's problems are cause of Porter/D'antoni. IMO it shows that Amare isn't a franchise player because he is so dependent on good coaching. Maybe Kerr isn't a good GM because he is so dependent on good ownership, however good luck finding a GM who can succeed under Sarver.
That we can agree on. I've never said I want to see Kerr gone. I've only said I could care less if he goes. I do think he could succeed, but just not here. He obviously isn't given the ability to prove himself and while that sucks, many of the decisions he has been allowed to make haven't worked out very well. That's what I'm saying.
Obviously I'd love to get rid of Sarver more than any single en y within the Suns organization. I despise him and what he's done to a franchise I've bled for for more than 20 years.
However, it is my opinion that nobody on this current is worth keeping around at the moment. Those who are productive should be shopped, because most won't be with the team within two years. Those who aren't should then be given PT enough to see if they are worth anything. If not, as you suspect, then ship them out or cut them.
This team needs to completely start over. A truly smart Gm could work with this and bring about a future for this franchise. If Kerr can pull that rabbit out of a hat, then I'll enthusiastically apologize for saying he was inable/unwilling to do what it took. If he fails to bring in actual talent or high-potential picks, and merely ends up bringing in expiring contracts to save his master some moola, then I say he should be gone. If all he's going to be is the puppet and fall boy for the detrimental whims of Sarver, then this team is no better for having him.
trading amare for expiring contracts
why not just for marion back with his expiring contract
I'd trade Amare/Barnes/Dragic to Miami for Beasley/Marion or Amare/Barnes for Marion and the Heat's 1st this year (unprotected) and a future 1st.
They get a head start on the likely Wade/Amare 2010 duo. Phoenix gets its expiring contract and two 1st-rounders or Beasley
Last rumor has Amare to the Lakers for Morrison, Mihm and a protected second round pick...
Ok then this this whole argument we just had was pointless because that's my opinion
I just don't want Kerr and/or Porter to get fired and then everyone thinks that every problem is fixed.
Shoulda kept JJ, shoulda kept Fernandez, shoulda drafted Rondo, shoulda hoped Atlanta fell to 4th. etc.
Last rumor has Amare to the Lakers for Morrison, Mihm and a protected second round pick...
Not pointless... we just took the scenic route to discover we share roughly the same opinion.Ok then this this whole argument we just had was pointless because that's my opinion
As long as Sarver owns the Suns, he will always be numero uno on my "people to kill" list. And unlike in Billy Madison, it's going to take more than a phone call apology and an invitation for a cup of coffee for me to forgive him.I just don't want Kerr and/or Porter to get fired and then everyone thinks that every problem is fixed.
Even if the Suns were to win a le under his watch, I'd still begrudge him for all the les he cheapskated away during this stretch. They were never far off. One, maybe two key players each year at a specific position like backup PG and backup PF or C. He had every opportunity to draft them and failed.
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