Nazr vs Malik

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Malik hasn't been a good defender since 2003, when taller players realized they could just shoot over him.



I'm with picnroll on this though, I want to see Nazr get some quality PT alongside Duncan. Duncan will help him pick things up even faster on defense, and on offense I think Nazr will go ape crashing the offensive glass on the weakside away from Tim.

AHF,

I guess I didn't come across clearly. I didn't say nor do I think that Malik was a good defender. I said he was better than Nazr is right now. He was too small, but he didn't get caught out of position like Nazr is. That's understandable since Nazr just got here. Nazr's improving however, and I agree that more PT with Tim will be really helpful. I was a little puzzled when Pop started Horry next to Tim against Utah. Any insight into why he started his two power forwards?

[T Park]

The same tired myths are stilled being put forward like Malik got beaten out by Willis/Massenburg."

He was for a while this year beaten out by Massenburg.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

It's a hate issue because
1. It's irrelevant to the team at this point.
2. The same tired myths are stilled being put forward like "Malik couldn't defend because of his height" and "Malik got beaten out by Willis/Massenburg." Granted, you weren't the one saying these things, but I wasn't addressing you alone.

BC,

I don't think its a hate thing. I just see some fans wondering how the trade is working out. Pincnroll bumped the thread because he wanted to know if people were thinking differenly now that Nazr wasn't stinking it up (just two weeks ago, some including me were thinking that it was possible he wouldn't make the playoff roster).

And by the way, and I mean no disrespect by saying this, but it seems to me that everything we say is irrelevant to the team. Do you really think Pop, RC or any of the players care what a bunch of bloggers think? We're just fans talking about our team, right?

[picnroll]

Nazr said in an interview that this is the first time he's played in a defensive system, practiced defensive schemes. Pretty amazing but given comments that the Knicks made about how much Malik was adding to them defense understanding and intensty-wise it's not unbelieveable. Malik afterall was fourth in terms of consistent positional defense of the Spurs primary bigs with Rasho one, Duncan two and Horry three.

Nazr has the raw tools to be a very good defender and if he has the smarts with Pop his growth in this area could be exponential.

[BronxCowboy]

And by the way, and I mean no disrespect by saying this, but it seems to me that everything we say is irrelevant to the team. Do you really think Pop, RC or any of the players care what a bunch of bloggers think? We're just fans talking about our team, right?

Point taken. It just irks me that Malik is gone, yet the negativity/misinformation about him isn't.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What misinformation? You mean this...

The same tired myths are still being put forward like "Malik couldn't defend because of his height" and "Malik got beaten out by Willis/Massenburg."

The only constant in Malik's defense over the past two seasons was more of the long/tall people in the league just shooting over him easily, or snatching a rebound from over his head.

Earlier this year Massenberg and Horry were being trotted out on the court as the backups before Malik.

You're right, Malik was obviously playing better, and Pop just felt like having his head up his ass and playing the worst big men he had on the bench first.

[T Park]

You're right, Malik was obviously playing better, and Pop just felt like having his head up his ass and playing the worst big men he had on the bench first.

switch Malik with Barry, and big men with Devin Brown, or Beno Udrih,

and pretty much got YOUR arguements for the first part of the season.

[BronxCowboy]

Malik was beaten out by Horry, yes, but not Massenburg. Except for a 3 or 4 game stretch Malik was being used more than Massenburg. Who cares who got in the game first? Subs utions are based on matchups. Even during said stretch in which Massenburg was getting more minutes, Malik wasn't on the bench because Tony had been playing better. Malik was on the bench because he got on Pop's bad side. Massenburg had a total of what, 1 good game this year? But hey, if you guys want to call that "beating Malik out" then go ahead.

[BronxCowboy]

[QUOTE=Aggie Hoopsfan]The only constant in Malik's defense over the past two seasons was more of the long/tall people in the league just shooting over him easily, or snatching a rebound from over his head.[QUOTE]

Oops, I guess I was wrong. This wasn't a "hate on Malik" thread after all. My bad.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

I'm going to ask this again since it was on the tail end of my post on the previous page. I think the idea that Nazr needs more PT next to Tim is valid. Why did Pop start Horry with Duncan in the Utah game?

[picnroll]

Why did Pop start Horry with Duncan in the Utah game?

My guess Pop values Horry's outside shooting to free up TD in the post, one thing Nazr can't bring and one limitation of playing Nazr and TD together.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Great question bigbend, who knows. I have the same one.

Malik was on the bench because he got on Pop's bad side.

And how did he get on the bad side? It wasn't because he bought him some bad wine. It's because he was not hustling on the court, wasn't working within the flow of the offense, etc.

In short, play bad basketball, and you don't play. The same people who bagged on Barry earlier this year give Malik all the excuses in the world because he did something good two years ago.

[ChumpDumper]

Why did Pop start Horry with Duncan in the Utah game?

I think Pop is trying to simulate, as much as he can, the regular subs ution pattern for new guys like Nazr and GRob.

[ducks]

nazr has been tearing it up late in the season

[CaptainLate]

Malik was a better defender, Nazr's defense has a ways to go. In the end if Nazr can adjust, his size will change more shots.

Nazr v. Malik on offense is a wash to me at this point. They both do things I wish they wouldn't do, and they both play with energy and heart. Malik was a better free throw shooter.

I look forward to seeing an updated +/- chart when Nazr has played more.

Overall though, Kori is right. At least we're not overpaying a guy who Pop won't play. Team chemisty appears to be righting itself as well.

And, too, RHorry becomes a regular. He doesn't have to wonder "Is Pop going with Malik tonight and me next game?"

[CaptainLate]

BC,

I don't think its a hate thing. I just see some fans wondering how the trade is working out. Pincnroll bumped the thread because he wanted to know if people were thinking differenly now that Nazr wasn't stinking it up (just two weeks ago, some including me were thinking that it was possible he wouldn't make the playoff roster).

And by the way, and I mean no disrespect by saying this, but it seems to me that everything we say is irrelevant to the team. Do you really think Pop, RC or any of the players care what a bunch of bloggers think? We're just fans talking about our team, right?

It's all opinions...and you know what they say about opinions being like AH -- everyone has one.

"It's all good!"

[TDMVPDPOY]

ive just seen a few games of him, Nazr looks very slim built and good speed, can he actually play the 3 spot?? he could be bowens successor that we been lookin for.

[Dre_7]

No. Not athletic enough to play the 3. Hes a center!

[Spurgal]

Can you guess Malik Is thinking In this picture? I know I can...

[Louae]

Horry beats a lot of guys out for minutes...regardless of what his stats are....and Willis and Massenburg never beat Malik out.

As long as Nazr keeps having the type of impact he has been having in the past few games, on a fairly consistent basis, I will be satisfied that the trade didn't hurt our le chances as badly as I originally thought...

Glenn Robinson helps offset the trade too.

I am not gonna really argue about which one would have helped us more because it's a lost cause and there is a concentrated effort on the part of Malik haters to totally ignore what he has done for us in post seasons of the past...specifically in our last le run. And yes I know he didn't have that type of post season last year, but that's because Pop wouldn't let him off the bench. He didn't fail us in the post season, he wasn't given the opportunity.

Truer words were never spoken.

[Louae]

I disagree with parts of both of these. Nazr still sucks as a defender for the most part. He's getting better and blocking some shots, but he doesn't get in the right position defensively. He is improving though and hopefully that continues.

Secondly, Nazr is an awesome offensive rebounder; he gets great position. But I'd venture to bet that if you tallied up the times that Nazr gets blocked, I think he's on a Malik-esque pace.

All in all, I think the trade was good because Nazr is going to get his fair shake of playing time. I didn't want the Spurs to keep paying for a player that they weren't going to use. So I think the trade was good. But the jury is still out on Nazr's ability to contribute with both Duncan and Rasho healthy.

Now here's a valid argument. Can't really disagree with that. Now this is something that many of the Rose haters fail to accomplish with regularity. Nope, it's just much easier to say. Rose sucks, Nazr rocks. Whott is crazy.

[Louae]

Can you guess Malik Is thinking In this picture? I know I can...

I'm owning your ass in this game. Couldn't disagree with him either. In that game, he was owning him.

[Louae]

You're right, Malik was obviously playing better, and Pop just felt like having his head up his ass and playing the worst big men he had on the bench first.

When POP was trotting out the likes of Massenburg and Marks ahead of Rose. Yes, those thoughts were going through my head.

[exstatic]

2. The same tired myths are still being put forward like "Malik couldn't defend because of his height" and "Malik got beaten out by Willis/Massenburg."

If you have eyes that function, you'd know that neither of those was a "myth". Big guards were starting to post his ass up and shoot over him this year. He was also racking up DNP/CDs, both last year, and this year. If you're not playing, and you're not injured, you got beat out of your spot.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Malik couldn't defend because of his height

That's a myth right up there with Jordan getting 6 rings.

He was getting posted by guards.