Trade Idea

[DPG21920]

That's awesome, thanks for the contribution to the thread, I hope you use your clairvoyant powers more often, stop by anytime.

Rob, I will tell you from experience it is not worth quoting and defending yourself to everyone and everything that is said. It really is just pointless. Do not take things personally. Some people will talk trash and it is good to go back and forth if someone is really laying it on thick, but it always leads to no where.

Get in, throw a few punches, then get out.

[SenorSpur]

There's nothing to believe that Manu cannot recover and come back full strength next year. In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with thinking about the future of the franchise. However, I don't believe trading Manu is the answer. Even if they wanted to, he has no value right because he's injured.

No, trading Manu isn't the answer. The FO simply needs to do a MUCH better job of filling in the gaps around what's left of the Big Three. This cannot be done by way of signing old players, who are at the end of their careers or spending draft picks on guys Euros that will never see the inside of an NBA arena.

[Rob123]

Rob, I will tell you from experience it is not worth quoting and defending yourself to everyone and everything that is said. It really is just pointless. Do not take things personally. Some people will talk trash and it is good to go back and forth if someone is really laying it on thick, but it always leads to no where.

Get in, throw a few punches, then get out.

Haha, you're a good guy.

I just took 3 scoops of NO Xplode and am waiting to go to the gym, so I'm all fired up, I kind of like using logic against all these other posters, im just passing some time.

[Death In June]

These trade threads are re ed. These people either have selective memories or don't know how to recieve and interpret information. Manu will be back next year, just as good as he was in 2007. The guy had very little time to recover from his ankle injury in the lakers series and that set a chain reaction of injuries that led us here.

[DPG21920]

This is a good site to test out trades (at least from a salary cap standpoint): http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Then you have to also piece together why both teams would want to do it.

Everything you ever wanted to know about the salary cap, luxury tax and all things related to the Collective Bargaining Agreement can be found here:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

As to your scenario, when two teams are both over the salary cap (like the Spurs and Wizards), the value of the contracts traded must be within 125% plus $100K. So with Manu making 10.7M next year, the Wizards would have to send between 8.4 and 13.5M in contracts back to the Spurs. Caron Butler would work, but why would the Wizards trade Butler and a top 5 draft pick to get Manu?

Haha, you're a good guy.

I just took 3 scoops of NO Xplode and am waiting to go to the gym, so I'm all fired up, I kind of like using logic against all these other posters, im just passing some time.

Just read through the websites we gave you and it will help you learn. It really is complex stuff, but it is fun and it adds to the experience of being a basketball/Spurs fan.

[Rob123]

There's nothing to believe that Manu cannot recover and come back full strength next year. In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with thinking about the future of the franchise. However, I don't believe trading Manu is the answer. Even if they wanted to, he has no value right because he's injured.

No, trading Manu isn't the answer. The FO simply needs to do a MUCH better job of filling in the gaps around what's left of the Big Three. This cannot be done by way of signing old players, who are at the end of their careers or spending draft picks on guys Euros that will never see the inside of an NBA arena.

See I like this, a rational thought.

I didnt post this in reaction to his ankle injury. Manu is a great player, I love watching him play. But he's being called upon to be our whole wing. Without him we dont have any athleticism at the 2 or 3, unless George Hill gets some burn finally. I love Mason, but he's just a shooter.

It makes more sense to me to trade him and get two athletic young wings, or at least someone we can run into the ground, and still be fresh come play offs.

We cant expect a guy to be one of our only athletic scorers, not give him any rest, and then expect him to be 100% come playoffs at his age.

[Josepatches_]

If Manu is healthy next season..how many players can be better than him? (Bryant,Wade,LBJ or superstars like them) And how many of them could be trade for Manu? Nobody.

If Manu is healthy he's better than anyone we can get for him.And if he's not healthy teams are not going to trade for him.

So Manu has to stay here

[Rob123]

These trade threads are re ed. These people either have selective memories or don't know how to recieve and interpret information. Manu will be back next year, just as good as he was in 2007. The guy had very little time to recover from his ankle injury in the lakers series and that set a chain reaction of injuries that led us here.

See I'm a wizards fan as well, I remember saying the same thing when the then 26 year old Arenas went down in 07. He's gonna be back in 08 and tear up. Then he went down again in 08, and I was like well damn, he needs more rest, he'll back in 09 to tear up. Well here's to hoping that he can come back and do it in '10.

I remember last years play offs when the 30 year old Manu was ineffective against the lakers, and I thought to myself he'll be fine next year, and we'll tear up. Now it's this years playoffs and I'm saying this same thing. Deja Vu

[TheProfessor]

Everything you ever wanted to know about the salary cap, luxury tax and all things related to the Collective Bargaining Agreement can be found here:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

As to your scenario, when two teams are both over the salary cap (like the Spurs and Wizards), the value of the contracts traded must be within 125% plus $100K. So with Manu making 10.7M next year, the Wizards would have to send between 8.4 and 13.5M in contracts back to the Spurs. Caron Butler would work, but why would the Wizards trade Butler and a top 5 draft pick to get Manu?

They wouldn't trade a top 5 pick. But, it's not impossible that the Wizards absolutely suck again next year. With Arenas' ungodly contract on the books, they may want to dump either Butler or Jamison to free up some cap space for 2010 or to begin rebuilding. Manu's expiring contract suddenly looks pretty good at the trade deadline.

If Manu is healthy during the first half of the season, then it's not an issue. But if he's injured again, and the Spurs intend on making a serious run, it wouldn't surprise me to see a trade like that.

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs are just too old. Manu is the only athletic Wing we've got, and he's not getting any younger, he cant be THE solution for our wing situation.

We still have Tim Duncan and Tony Parker, if we could get a young athletic guy with a lot of talent next to them I think we'd be in good position.

On these points, we're saying the same thing. I strongly believe a young, athletic wing could make a HUGE difference on this squad. Of course, I've thought and said this publically for about 4 years.

The Spurs don't necessarily have to move up to the top five of the NBA draft to get such a guy. He could come via free agency.

Yet instead of actually addressing this issue for the current and long term, Pop keeps closing his eyes and giving his heart and minutes to Finley, every year.

[Mel_13]

They wouldn't trade a top 5 pick. But, it's not impossible that the Wizards absolutely suck again next year. With Arenas' ungodly contract on the books, they may want to dump either Butler or Jamison to free up some cap space for 2010 or to begin rebuilding. Manu's expiring contract suddenly looks pretty good at the trade deadline.

If Manu is healthy during the first half of the season, then it's not an issue. But if he's injured again, and the Spurs intend on making a serious run, it wouldn't surprise me to see a trade like that.

As much as I want to see Manu retire as a Spur, I agree that there are reasonable scenarios this summer and at next year's trade deadline that could have Manu traded. For me, it would really suck if we have seen Manu's last game as a Spur. Let's hope for a different outcome.

[Rob123]

On these points, we're saying the same thing. I strongly believe a young, athletic wing could make a HUGE difference on this squad. Of course, I've thought and said this publically for about 4 years. Yet instead of actually addressing this issue for the current and long term, Pop keeps closing his eyes and giving his heart and minutes to Finley, every year.

Exactly, with tony parker, and tim duncan all that's needed is one or two young athletic players who can play the entire season, and still be fresh in the post season.

Im sorry but Manu is the most expendable of the key players on our team.

[SenorSpur]

Exactly, with tony parker, and tim duncan all that's needed is one or two young athletic players who can play the entire season, and still be fresh in the post season.

Im sorry but Manu is the most expendable of the key players on our team.

Again, he's got no trade value. They can get such a guy without trading Manu.

[Rob123]

Again, he's got no trade value. They can get such a guy without trading Manu.

But with such a fiscal minded team, we'd be going very cheap if we keep Manus contract on the books. We dont need kobe, but we're gonna need something better than Mason as our starter. Mason was a great value, but we had to go cheap.

[rascal]

Exactly, with tony parker, and tim duncan all that's needed is one or two young athletic players who can play the entire season, and still be fresh in the post season.

Im sorry but Manu is the most expendable of the key players on our team.

Agree. Good points. But will manu even play for another team or just leave the nba if threatened to be traded. So that would make him untradeable and an anchor to Duncan's last years if he doesn't regain past form.

[ambchang]

Yes! Let's trade our players when their trade value is at their absolute lowest! I am sure Manu can net a couple of second round picks and cash right now!

[SenorSpur]

But with such a fiscal minded team, we'd be going very cheap if we keep Manus contract on the books. We dont need kobe, but we're gonna need something better than Mason as our starter. Mason was a great value, but we had to go cheap.

Couldn't agree more. However there is no one out there at 10mil that I'd rather have to fulfill the 2/3 spot. There are cheaper, more affordable options. Many of which have been discussed hither and yon on this board.

My issue with the Spurs FO is that they did exactly what I feared they would do. They carelessly played "russian roulette", year-after-year with this position. Just because they were winning, they thought it was ok to wait until Bowen got old, Manu became injury-prone, and Finley became old and an obvious liability. They've done nothing to proactively plan for this occurrence and now they have no choice. The solution will be more difficult.

[Mel_13]

However there is no one out there at 10mil that I'd rather have to fulfill the 2/3 spot. There are cheaper, more affordable options.

Unfortunately, the numbers (players under contract and a decreasing lux tax line) suggest that the only talent the Spurs will be able to add next year will be Hairston, Gist and other minimum salary talent. I don't see how they can use the MLE to upgrade the rotation without a trade that sheds at least 5M in salary.

[wildbill2u]

"The Wizards have openly said if they dont win the lottery they're going to trade their pick away"

That's probably because this draft is so thin they don't want to take a chance on a high draftee player who won't perform like a high draftee.

[SenorSpur]

"The Wizards have openly said if they dont win the lottery they're going to trade their pick away"

That's probably because this draft is so thin they don't want to take a chance on a high draftee player who won't perform like a high draftee.

They would've done better to let Gilbert Arenas walk instead of giving him an max contract.

[Bukefal]

yesterday he was god, today they want him to be traded