Harvey: Turkoglu Just Five Years Late For Spurs

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I knew as time went by, everyone would grow more and more disgusted with the spurs letting Jackson go. It made no ing sense. And regardless of his agent's tactics and money thirstiness, the contract he was offered was jack ass anyways. We should have paid the man. He was the clutchest bomber of the post season for us and we just let him walk.

stupid.

Hedo I actually wanted gone. His value got overinflated with his year here.

What's that about Hedo being Dwight's height now? I remember he started out as 6'8", then mysteriously grew to 6'10" right before joining the spurs....so he's 7'0" now?

Also, can you imagine Pop letting Hedo run the point like he does the Magic?

[Spurs1234]

totally agree with everyone pissed they let jackson go...if anything, it was like the celtics letting posey go this offseason, it was a huge hit...then factor in, jackson could have been signed for a 3 year 18 million dollar deal, posey got the mid level, posey is over 30, jax was starting his prime, and jax was a more well rounded player...why they didnt want to sign him is beyond belief...i think up to 2002, the spurs made the best FO moves ever for a team, getting a little luck with TD and drafting overseas, something no one did...but after 2002-2003, they made a bunch of bad decisions....granted by 2002, we had the pieces to win 3 more championships, so its not spilled milk, i am grateful they won what they did, but still, the FO if they could do it over again, would have signed JAX in a heartbeat. while i agree they should have drafted howard, hindsight in drafts is 20/20, so i cant hate on that move, but to not sign your best clutch player, who is athletic, can play multiple positions, proved he could start on your championship roster, and is young enough, that he wont cost you max dollars, is just a bad move. With jax, they probably win vs. the lakers in 2004...and def. in 2006 vs. the mavs. I agree, in 2005, the spurs woundnt have won without manu's heroics, but who is to say he wouldnt develop even with jax there...plus with jax there, maybe manu doesnt have to score 25 a night like he did in the playoffs...the only thing that upsets me the FO did, the draft picks of howard and salmons, ect i can live with...but to not give a contributor to a ring a new contract, is just a bad move.

[urunobili]

I felt the same way when they didn't re-sign him, but hey they still got 2 more rings after that. Yeah it could have been more, but you never know. It's all in the past and there is nothing you can do about it unless Marty and Doc are walking through the door. Remember Jax was the one in the stands w/ Artest. Jax was the one shooting his gun in the air at an Indiana night club at 4 am. He is very immature and the Spurs gave him one chance and when he hesitated, they moved on without him.

Jax probably wouldn't have done any of that if staying safe in San Antonio...

[poop]

ive never seen a player like Hedo where they start off good, then suck for 5 years, then suddenly get good again. its wierd

[TDMVPDPOY]

had we signed JAX, then rasho wouldnt be here right?

[Mel_13]

So Indiana is full of thugs and bad things? It's no different here than in Indiana..probably worse here.

Don't you know that when you rewrite history in one of these 'what if' scenarios only the good things happen while the bad things don't. If Jax stayed he San Antonio he would have spent all his free time playing video games at Tim's house until he settled down with the second grade teacher he met while doing community outreach.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs refused to give Jackson around 5 million per year for 3 + years after 2003. That's all Jackson was asking for, but Spurs offered him 9 mil over 3 years so Jackson passed. What I don't understand is they gave Barry 5.5 Million for 4 years two years later after 03. Spurs even had the chance to bring Jackson back in 2004 and elected to go the Barry route instead. Horrible job and decision from the front office.

[Extra Stout]

It's nice for Hedo that he finally blossomed.

Brent Barry wasn't too shabby as a Spur.

Jax might have helped with the '04 run since he was clutch when other Spurs weren't.

Obviously if Josh Howard had been on the Spurs, the Mavericks would never have become the team they were from 2004-07, the matchup problems they caused for the Spurs would never have existed, other teams would be having to figure out how to guard "the long 3" rather than the other way around, there never would have been such a thing as "small ball" in Pop's schemes, and a threepeat from 2005-07 would have been quite likely, unless the Spurs ended up dumping somebody to lower payroll.

That was yet another R.C. Buford special.

[Mel_13]

HAHA...I detect some sarcasm in your typing. That's what I am trying to say. This dude has had character issues since he's been in the NBA, so saying he'd stay out of trouble down here is crazy. I mean if you can't be good in iana, than how can you handle a crazy night on 6th St in Austin or the Riverwalk?

Not just that. It's the whole 'the Spurs would have won 4 straight if it wasn't for 0.4 and the Manu foul'. As if the other les were somehow preordained and did not have tipping points that could have just as easily resulted in no les.

Consider two shots by Robert Horry from almost exactly the same spot:

2:15 here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8p9RtiDVRM

3:12 here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNTE_1rXvy0

If the first goes in and the second misses, instead of the other way around, do the Spurs win in 2003 and 2005?

[Mel_13]

Spurs refused to give Jackson around 5 million per year for 3 + years after 2003. That's all Jackson was asking for, but Spurs offered him 9 mil over 3 years so Jackson passed. What I don't understand is they gave Barry 5.5 Million for 4 years two years later after 03. Spurs even had the chance to bring Jackson back in 2004 and elected to go the Barry route instead. Horrible job and decision from the front office.

This article written in 2003 paints a different picture. The Spurs made an initial offer and Jackson's agent did not make a counteroffer or return calls or e-mails from Pop and R.C. The Spurs made the Hedo deal and Jackson settled for a one year deal after failing to get what he wanted from any team in the NBA.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...0223/index.htm

[ploto]

Also, can you imagine Pop letting Hedo run the point like he does the Magic?

better than Mason-- actually Pop always believed that Hedo coud play positions 1 through 4.

[pad300]

You know, there's been a fair amount of Barry hate in this thread. While I can understand wanting to have kept Capt Jack (although not Turkeyglue, not after that performance against the lakers). It wasn't Barry's fault that Jack left. Despite all the haters, Barry was pretty damned useful for us while he was here.

In 04/05, he tied for 4/5th place in WS (wins score) on the team in the regular season, and was 5th in WS during the playoffs...He was the best offensive player on the team according to Pts/100 possesssion in the regular season, and 4th in the playoffs..

In 05/06 he was 7th in WS and 2nd in Pts/100 possession in the regular season. He only played 1258 RS minutes, which held down his WS. In the Playoffs he was 3ed in WS, and 1st overall in pts/100 possessions

in 06/07 he was 4th in WS and 1st pts/possesion in the RS. In the playoffs he was bad, being 9th in WS and pts/possession

in 07/08 he had again the best pts/possession on the squad (not counting Jeremy Richardson's 29 minutes of garbage time), but only contributed 2.2 WS (8th on the squad), primarily because he only played 554 RS minutes. In the playoffs, he was best pts/poss on the squad (not counting Bonner's 9 MP), and had the 4th best WS (at 0.8) on the squad.

With the exception of the 06/07 playoffs, he was really quite good for us. Especially if you adjust for minutes played, given he got jerked around by Pop (minutes wise) quite a lot; he was the primary guy suffering for Finley's need to start...He was at the very least fair value for the money, and sometimes quite a bit more... He really should have gotten more PT while he was here.

[afireinside20]

If Jackson would have stayed, I feel we would have one in 04 and 06. He was so great for us in our 03 run, him and Manu really added depth for the Spurs at the SG position. I'm sure with Jackson on board as well, we would have had an even more efficient and dynamic offense. Instead of The Big Three, it would have been the The Big Four. Thank the FO for ing it up yet again.

[DAF86]

If Jackson would have stayed, I feel we would have one in 04 and 06. He was so great for us in our 03 run, him and Manu really added depth for the Spurs at the SG position. I'm sure with Jackson on board as well, we would have had an even more efficient and dynamic offense. Instead of The Big Three, it would have been the The Big Four. Thank the FO for ing it up yet again.

I think it would have been the big two (Tim and Tony) with Manu and Jacskon preventing each other from maximazing their potentials.

[bdictjames]

Without Brent Barry, we wouldn't have 2 rings. He was a class act and a veteran who knew the system and knew how to execute. Made a ton of clutch shots in the playoffs.

[Leftyventricle]

i always thought he looked like a melted ginobili. or that he sniffed too much turkey glue.

he's doing great and i wish him the best of luck!

[Ice009]

Yeah, there's not much the Spurs could have done. Turkoglu was a one-year rental and him leaving for the Magic was better for him and for the Spurs. He's a small forward technically but he's actually more of a point guard and he was never going to get enough touches next to the Big Three.

Signing Barry turned out to be a decent move, although using hindsight it's hard to argue against the Spurs locking up Stephen Jackson. If the Spurs would have kept Jack, I highly doubt the Spurs lose to the Mavs in 2006 ... and probably not the Lakers in 2004

Sjax was one of my favorite players in 2003. He's still one of my favorite players and Spurs player. When he got traded to the Warriors I thought maybe they don't want him and could release him, but he to do what he does and there was no way the Warriors were letting him go.

Anyway I really do think the Spurs were worried about another Jaren Jackson on their hands so really you gotta blame Jaren for the Spurs not gambling to resign Sjax. Do you agree?

[Manufan909]

[/B]

It really makes you wonder how fortunes would have changed had the Spurs just decided to give the '03 a chance to defend it's le like the way they let the '07 have an opportunity. Granted, Dave, Kerr, and a couple of vets at the end of the bench would have had to been replaced, but it still makes you wonder.

The "Accidental Championship" year, which was in referrence to the Spurs supposedly being in a transition year-not a slight, has turned out to be the year of "Unintended Consequence."

Because the franchise had eyes on '04 being "their year", they didn't pick up Speedy's option-in part due to wanting to keep financial flexibility-, they passed on Howard- which had everything to do with financial flexibility, and they struck-out on Kidd- the reason they needed the financial flexibility.

Kidd not coming turned out to be a blessing in disguise, but given hindsight?

Had they been able to give that team a chance to repeat?

They come back the next year with the Big 3, Jack, Bowen, Speedy, and a rookie named Howard.

The Spurs could've gotten Dwight from the draft?

[JustinJDW]

Underdevolped Hedo? Hedo would have done a lot more than Brent Barry giving the opportunity. Brent Barry had so much opportunity and barely did anything except for bringing the ball up the court 8 minutes a game in the 2005 NBA Finals.

Who the is talking about Barry? I am talking about Ginobili. Would I have rather kept Hedo then sign Barry, yeah. Do I think dropping Hedo cost us a Championship or two? No.

Hedo wasn't half as good as he is now in Orlando. Orlando had the time and space to have Hedo develop faster. Us, well we were to busy winning Championships with our already developed Big 3. We won three Championships in five years. You guys think having Hedo was going to make us win five for five or something? The only reason we didn't win the 2004 Championship was because of Fisher's lucky ass 0.4 shot. And the only reason we didn't win the 2006 Championship was because of Ginobili's stupid foul.

We didn't win those Championships because of those reasons, but even if those never happened, we might have lost to the Pistons in 04, or maybe the Heat in 06. Why do people act like not having Hedo cost us Championships?

[CNAVK]

ive never seen a player like Hedo where they start off good, then suck for 5 years, then suddenly get good again. its wierd

This is a good example how some players can actually improve under the right cir stances.

Hedo was not terrible when he was playing for Spurs. His confidence was very low beginning of the season but after Pop decided to put him in starting 5, he played quite well in the regular season. I guess he was leading the league in 3pt percentage at one stage late in the season and he finished with 42% for the season. Of course he played very bad in Lakers series and that was the end of his Spurs career.

His first year in Orlando was actually not a very good one. Right after T Mac trade and Steve Francis' first year with the team, it was not a good place to be. Then, coach Davis fired and replaced by Brian Hill. Hedo did not fit to his structured offense well. Finally when SVG was hired hedo found his niche. Of course Dwight Howard is important for his success but he is probably the only one on magic team who feeds Dwight effectively. I guess he benefited from playing with Chris Webber and Tim Duncan at contending teams early in his career.