Turkoglu just five years late for Spurs
Buck Harvey
The Spurs weren't wrong. If anything, they gambled well. They gave up nothing to get Hedo Turkoglu, then they gave him a season to show them something.
That's why Sunday wasn't about the Spurs and their decision five years ago.
It was about the gradual evolution of Turkoglu.
R.C. Buford had followed Turkoglu since he turned pro at 17 in Turkey, but most scouts saw the gifts. Turkoglu had a smooth jumper, and he could dribble and pass for his size.
Better yet, his size kept changing. Look at him now; he's about the same height as Dwight Howard.
After Sacramento drafted Turkoglu, Buford would occasionally call the Kings to see if anything was possible. The Kings would say Turkoglu was untouchable.
Then Turkoglu put on some weight and lost some confidence. His scoring average fell below seven points by 2003, and the Kings wanted to pull off a trade with Indiana to get Brad Miller.
Buford always gave Sam Presti credit for what followed. The Spurs elbowed their way into a three-team trade, with Danny Ferry's contract their only asset.
It was a godsend. The Spurs had been hesitant to invest in Stephen Jackson, though he had helped win a le with clutch shooting. They weren't sure of his worth, given his volatility, and to get Turkoglu they only had to send off some paperwork on Ferry. Shortly after, Ferry retired and returned to work for the Spurs.
Turkoglu was likeable, with a good sense of humor, and he came with a noticeable skill. He could speak Serbian with Gregg Popovich.
But he was also a reclamation project. He was fragile, without compe ive instincts, and Popovich reacted to that. He didn't bark at him in any language because he didn't think Turkoglu needed the stress.
Still, when Turkoglu started off in a slump, Popovich didn't pull back. He is the key, Popovich said in November of 2003. He's a necessity. We're not going to get it done without him.
Popovich tried to jump-start Turkoglu, starting him ahead of Manu Ginobili, and for a time the spark caught. Turkoglu went on a shooting streak in the middle of the season.
He relapsed in the playoffs. Turkoglu went cold in the Derek Fisher 0.4 loss, and his final game as a Spur left a lasting image. Starting against the Lakers as the so-called shooting guard, Turkoglu didn't score a point.
When the Magic offered Turkoglu a six-year, $37 million contract, the Spurs never considered matching. They had to pay Ginobili and Bruce Bowen that summer, and they wondered if Turkoglu would ever have fourth-quarter toughness. To them, it made better sense to invest in a less-expensive but proven shooter, Brent Barry.
The Spurs would win the next championship, and then another in 2007. With Ginobili becoming more assertive, Turkoglu might have remained passive had he stayed.
He instead found responsibility with an Orlando franchise that had won just 21 games the year before. He got better every season until he averaged almost 20 points last year, when he was named the league's most improved player.
Then came Sunday. On the road, in a Game 7, Turkoglu put together 25 points and 12 assists to eliminate the defending champs.
If he had a notion to call himself the Turkish Larry Bird, a Boston Globe columnist wrote, no one could raise a serious objection.
He'd arrived at age 30, and now he heads to Cleveland to play, coincidentally, Ferry's Cavaliers. But everything could have been different, including the 2004 postseason.
If Turkoglu had shown even a hint of what was to come.
The spurs could not pay for a regular season phenom who would one day, too late, turn into a playoff baller.
Plus, Hedo has not played well in most of the games against the Celtics: he picked the last, important game to have a good game. It helps that he is really the 2nd option on the team.
Yeah, there's not much the Spurs could have done. Turkoglu was a one-year rental and him leaving for the Magic was better for him and for the Spurs. He's a small forward technically but he's actually more of a point guard and he was never going to get enough touches next to the Big Three.
Signing Barry turned out to be a decent move, although using hindsight it's hard to argue against the Spurs locking up Stephen Jackson. If the Spurs would have kept Jack, I highly doubt the Spurs lose to the Mavs in 2006 ... and probably not the Lakers in 2004
I am not upset one bit that we did not keep Hedo. Hedo. We won two more rings without him. Think about it. Does anyone really think we would have won the 2005 and 2007 Championships if we kept an underdeveloped Hedo and dropped a prime Ginobili and Bowen? Of course not. Get real.
It's called sacrificing people. If we kept Hedo over Ginobili, we never would have won those Championships. The Front Office was smart on this one.
I don't think Hedo is done doing what he does best. (He's just created a bigger stage.)
Yeah, there's not much the Spurs could have done. Turkoglu was a one-year rental and him leaving for the Magic was better for him and for the Spurs. He's a small forward technically but he's actually more of a point guard and he was never going to get enough touches next to the Big Three.
Signing Barry turned out to be a decent move, although using hindsight it's hard to argue against the Spurs locking up Stephen Jackson. If the Spurs would have kept Jack, I highly doubt the Spurs lose to the Mavs in 2006 ... and probably not the Lakers in 2004
It really makes you wonder how fortunes would have changed had the Spurs just decided to give the '03 a chance to defend it's le like the way they let the '07 have an opportunity. Granted, Dave, Kerr, and a couple of vets at the end of the bench would have had to been replaced, but it still makes you wonder.
The "Accidental Championship" year, which was in referrence to the Spurs supposedly being in a transition year-not a slight, has turned out to be the year of "Unintended Consequence."
Because the franchise had eyes on '04 being "their year", they didn't pick up Speedy's option-in part due to wanting to keep financial flexibility-, they passed on Howard- which had everything to do with financial flexibility, and they struck-out on Kidd- the reason they needed the financial flexibility.
Kidd not coming turned out to be a blessing in disguise, but given hindsight?
Had they been able to give that team a chance to repeat?
They come back the next year with the Big 3, Jack, Bowen, Speedy, and a rookie named Howard.
Hedo needed room to grow. The Magic were not contenders when he signed, so he got to grow with the team. The Spurs needed to win right away so they could not offer the same opportunities for him, both financially and in terms of his development as a player.
Underdevolped Hedo? Hedo would have done a lot more than Brent Barry giving the opportunity. Brent Barry had so much opportunity and barely did anything except for bringing the ball up the court 8 minutes a game in the 2005 NBA Finals.
Hedo just needed an opportunity. Success comes with that. He had the skill set and wasn't one dimensional like the other role players we've had outside the big 3 ( Barry, Mason, Finley, Steve Smith, Ime Udoka, ect). His shot was just off in a critical time and that happens to the best of them. I don't care what kind of player you are superstar or role player IT HAPPENS.
True, Barry never delivered what people thought the Spurs were getting when he signed. People now always forget that he lost his 6th-man spot to Devin Brown and only a back injury got Barry back in the game.
I'm pretty sure that if Jackson would have stayed Manu wouldn't have developed in the way he did on the NBA. And you don't know if we would have won in '05 without Manu's '05 version.Yeah, there's not much the Spurs could have done. Turkoglu was a one-year rental and him leaving for the Magic was better for him and for the Spurs. He's a small forward technically but he's actually more of a point guard and he was never going to get enough touches next to the Big Three.
Signing Barry turned out to be a decent move, although using hindsight it's hard to argue against the Spurs locking up Stephen Jackson. If the Spurs would have kept Jack, I highly doubt the Spurs lose to the Mavs in 2006 ... and probably not the Lakers in 2004
Keeping Hedo would not have meant that Manu or Bruce would have been gone. That is a stupid claim. The Spurs could have had Hedo or Jax or Brent- and they chose Brent who agreed to a shorter deal.
The real problem for Hedo was that he is more of an all-around player when the Spurs prefer one-trick ponies who fit a certain role- players who do one thing really well rather than a lot of things fairly well.
I also think that Hedo became the scapegoat for the Spurs loss to LA in 2004 when a lot of players shot horribly that series. The game 6 he mentions in LA: somehow he forgot to include that Bowen was 0-5 (same as Hedo) and Tony was 4-18. The 0.4 game in SA, Tony shot 7-23 and Horry was 0-4. Actually, Rob had 5 points TOTAL in games 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 combined. So, it was not just about Hedo not scoring that series.
I also knew with the attention being paid to Hedo that the article would soon appear justifying the Spurs getting rid of him. It is so predictable.
signing Barry made a lot of sense back then. but compared to what the Spurs payed him, his impact wasn't that impressive. (always assuming that instead of Barry this money could have been invested in another player. someone like Salmons for example).Signing Barry turned out to be a decent move, although using hindsight it's hard to argue against the Spurs locking up Stephen Jackson. If the Spurs would have kept Jack, I highly doubt the Spurs lose to the Mavs in 2006 ... and probably not the Lakers in 2004
I disagree with this. Both Manu and Jax have declared several times that despite the fact they didn't have much in common outside basketball on the court the chemistry was off the charts...
I think Manu would have done what Manu does Manu's way and JAX could have been our killer that may have put us over the Flakers in 04 and the Mavs in 06 no doubts
With S-jax on the team Manu wouldn't have been a starter in '05 and without starter minutes I don't think Manu would have played like he did that year.
The Spurs needed Jack and Jack needed the Spurs.Yeah, there's not much the Spurs could have done. Turkoglu was a one-year rental and him leaving for the Magic was better for him and for the Spurs. He's a small forward technically but he's actually more of a point guard and he was never going to get enough touches next to the Big Three.
Signing Barry turned out to be a decent move, although using hindsight it's hard to argue against the Spurs locking up Stephen Jackson. If the Spurs would have kept Jack, I highly doubt the Spurs lose to the Mavs in 2006 ... and probably not the Lakers in 2004
Hedo needed to go in order to develop. I agree that he wouldn't have gotten the touches on the Spurs due to the Big 3 neccessary for Hedo to become the player he has in Orlando. I'm glad to see him reaching his potential. I always liked him when he played for the Kings. Hedo just wasn't ready for the role that the Spurs wanted him to play.
Hedo leaving after the '04 season really was a no-brainer for the Spurs. I can't see the Spurs matching Orlando's offer for him. And in hindsight that offer until last season was way too much for what he produced.
My problem was the Spurs fascination with Kidd, SJAX leaving and passing on Howard. As several have already mentioned if we draft Howard and resign SJAX then we probably have a 3peat if not more. Now that possible scenario really hurts as a Spurs fan.
Manu gets starter minutes - at the end of games. Fin would have been the odd man out in this scenario.
yeah, at that time I think everyone agreed - even the few pro- Hedo folks out there, that Orlando was overpaying at that time. I liked Hedo, but couldn't justify it then. Considering the amount of time it took for the investment in hedo to pay dividends, I agree that the Spurs were right to let him go . Jack, though... it was tougher seeing him go though.Hedo needed to go in order to develop. I agree that he wouldn't have gotten the touches on the Spurs due to the Big 3 neccessary for Hedo to become the player he has in Orlando. I'm glad to see him reaching his potential. I always liked him when he played for the Kings. Hedo just wasn't ready for the role that the Spurs wanted him to play.
Hedo leaving after the '04 season really was a no-brainer for the Spurs. I can't see the Spurs matching Orlando's offer for him. And in hindsight that offer until last season was way too much for what he produced.
My problem was the Spurs fascination with Kidd, SJAX leaving and passing on Howard. As several have already mentioned if we draft Howard and resign SJAX then we probably have a 3peat if not more. Now that possible scenario really hurts as a Spurs fan.
Last edited by 4down; 05-19-2009 at 09:08 AM.
Finley wasn't in SA in 2005 you'd have to choose between Manu, Jackson and Bowen.
Hedo has always been a talented, versatile big SF
But this season, he has reached another level; he has more responsibilities, and is the Magic go-to-guy
Hedo is where he is supposed to be. It worked out for the best for everybody.
I totally agree. The loss of Jax, his killer instincts, his length, and his offensive and defensive skills, really hurt the Spurs in both '04 & '06. Hedo, Finley and a host of other possible replacements simply have not been able to adequately replace what Jack gave the Spurs.
Good point. - Did they really have to choose between those three or was it Barry as well that threw the monkey wrench in the whole thing? I know part of it had to do with jack just wanting more than the Spurs were willing to give, but was it not feasible, or did it just not work out with the Spurs? It seems they could have reached an accord.
Now, maybe more than ever, people can really appreciate what it takes to win it all. We have 4 Championships and its never easy. I'm so damn spoiled that I think the year we swept Cleveland was sub-par. Isn't that sick ? We can actually debate which Championship is our favorite. LA and Cleveland had great years as did the Nuggets and Magic but when its all over, only one team will be able to say they were number 1. All 3 teams that lose from here on out will be fishing just like us.
People seem to remember Kerr's heroics against Dallas in the '03 WCF's but it was Jax that really started it off. He also went off in Game 6 against the Nets draining 3 after 3. You just can't teach that.
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