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i love dev, but if brent keeps playing like this, it's a no brainer who should get the bulk of minutes...but will brent's nuts shrink again when he sees a healthy dev on the bench? i wonder...but i hope not.
Thansk Mikey...I like Devin too but it seems as if the Spurs are forcing it to be one of the other, and I gotta go with Barry..they are totally different players though...I really don't see the problem with giving Barry 25 mins and Devin 15 mins...about what they were getting when we got off to the best start in team history.
There's another pretty interesting stat...Devin and Barry seem to play well together...up until this recent surge by Devin...their best games came in the same games...and it makes sense if you remember that most of Devin's best games came in games where Barry started him off with an awesome feed for a dunk...
Devin plays better in an uptempo game too...it's not just Barry. But I do think Devin is more acclimated to the slow offense than Barry...I think he definitely shoots threes in that offense better than Barry...but I don't think our team is better in that offense.
Last edited by whottt; 03-30-2005 at 10:49 AM.
i love dev, but if brent keeps playing like this, it's a no brainer who should get the bulk of minutes...but will brent's nuts shrink again when he sees a healthy dev on the bench? i wonder...but i hope not.
Why do we have to choose???
Can we not have two quality backup 2-3's?
Good stats.
I think the whole idea from the beginning of the season was Barry > Brown. We all have been hoping that Barry would snap out of it.
Now to comment about a couple of the stats.
Devin is not supposed to be a big scorer on our team. Devin getting more than 10 points is as likely a sign of trouble as not because that is not his role.
Barry on the other hand is supposed to open the offense by scoring on the perimeter. Barry scoring points means that defenses can't sag on the Spurs. Barry getting more than 10 points is a very good sign because that is his role. It is supposed to be Barry > Brown.
ZAk, I don't think it's because of Devin,...I think Barry is stepping up when he is needed...
It's not like it's easier to step up with Duncan out in the midst of a home court push is it? Isn't that greater pressure...Everyone said Barry needed to step up and he did and now everyone wants to act like it's easier for him now...maybe in some ways it is...but most everyone else on our team would have a problem doing so.
I don't think it's nut shriveling...it might be an ego trip or something but...it's not like's playing afraid or anything...
I think the difference is the way we are running our offense...and I don't think it's that bad an option for the rest of the season...we laid a flat out asskicking on the Rockets in that 4th quarter, and they wanted that game...it only gets better when you add Duncan's d and rebounding to it.
This boost is what Brent needed. It gave him his confidence back. More importantly it showed Pop that even though he does no knock down his first 2 or 3 shots he can still be an intracle part of the game later. The team and Pop are believing in him more, that will be contagious. Pop will not be as quick to yank him because of a missed shot. Pop will hopefully take the Ginobli approach with him and quit taking the "S Jax approach".
"Why do we have to choose"
Come on, Jim, haven't you heard that the world has been divided by right-wing, "Christian" extremist dumbsh!ts into good vs evil, black vs white, "yer fer us or yer agin us", be a Christian or go to ?
Inclusive world-views, nuanced analyisis, a humble ability to tolerate apparent contradictions and complexities have all been lost, even demonized.
Whott's pro-Brent campaign MUST nuke Devin. THERE IS NO OTHER POSSIBILITY.
In honor of Johnny C: "If Brent fits, Devin must sit"
"Why do we have to choose"
Come on, Jim, haven't you heard that the world has been divided by right-wing, "Christian" extremist dumbsh!ts into good vs evil, black vs white, "yer fer us or yer agin us", be a Christian or go to ?
Inclusive world-views, nuanced analyisis, a humble ability to tolerate apparent contradictions and complexities have all been lost, even demonized.
Whott's pro-Brent campaign MUST nuke Devin. THERE IS NO OTHER POSSIBILITY.
In honor of Johnny C: "If Brent fits, Devin must sit"
I don't think that is what was being said. It has been stated that the spurs played best when they split minuted Barry 25 Devin 15. I believe Whott also said that the stats showed that Barry and Devin Both had their best games during the same game. This indicates that they play well togethor. The fact is if it comes down to who gives us the best chance to win in the playoffs, I take Brent playing the way he is right now. Brent changes the whole facet of the game. Devin does not, He may change the energy of the game but he does not have the ability to change the entire facet of the game.
Amen. If Barry's good play carries into the playoffs, keep him out there. With Duncan back, there will be even more perimeter shot opportunities...if he can knock them down...damn.I really don't see the problem with giving Barry 25 mins and Devin 15 mins...about what they were getting when we got off to the best start in team history.
Still sore about losing that bet? Priceless.Just for Chump...
Record when playing < 10 minutes:
Brent - 3-3(mother er! How hard is it to seeeeeeee)
Devin - 12-2
Barry played like in those games. That's why he didn't get ten minutes.
Mother er! How hard is it to seeeeeeeee.
Nobody went into this season thinking Devin would ever beat out Barry. He did. Fortunately for Barry, everyone got injured, and he started playing like a man -- not the huge pussy he was that got him beat out.
Not hard to seeeeeeeeeee at all.
Funny that you've been reduced to posting things like this to try to prove what everyone thought was self-evident at the beginning of the season. We know you can't blame Barry for his poor play even though that is just as self-evident. All about the agenda.
Chump...Barry has sucked in the first half of a lot of games...so has Devin Brown. soas Tim Duncan, so Michael Jordan, so has virtually every player in history...You cannot blame those losses on Barry. He sucked int he first half of that Phoenix game...evidently Brent Barry is the only player in NBA history not allowed to have a bad first half on a new team. What an asshole you are.
And people wonder why I layng the cold hard facts about Devin Brown out on the table for all to see...look at what the Barry haters say.
The only guy who has pussed out this season is Devin...see the Houston choke ing job. There is your folding under pressure you complete dumbass.
Now, please shut the up...I have seen you do every thing from wanting to see Ron Mercer play point guard, to saying Hedo>Manu, thinking Charlie Ward was good, just endless ...
You being stupid does not = me being wrong.
Figure it the out.
whottt, i agree with alot of what your saying, and those stats you provided seem pretty clear...it's hard to pinpoint brent's recent improvement...he's seems relaxed enough to hit shots now...cuz of dev's absence or TD's? i dunno, but as long as he keeps it up, that's all that matters.
You are such a ing idiot. I was the one saying Brent would improve. Not you. He did. You were wrong. Your stats prove it.
The only thing you defended was yanking him so we could lose.
Those stats have been that way the entire season...he's always had more of a positive impact on the team than Devin. The trend has been there all season.
All you did was defend what the Spurs did that ed him, and Devin, and our team and our bench up...Some of those things still aren't fixed.
You sucking Pop in no way cons utes you supporting Barry...and the only thing you were right about was what Pop was going to do...and you didn't even go out on a big limb on that.
Get ed.
Bench players are supposed to produce. If one doesn't produce you go with someone who does. Devin could. Now Barry can.All you did was defend what the Spurs did that ed him, and Devin, and our team and our bench up...Some of those things still aren't fixed.I have always supported Barry. My expecting him to do more than the you tried to pass off as his best game simply proves I believe in him, his abilities and his capacity to play Spurs basketball well more than you, you excuse-making piece of .You sucking Pop in no way cons utes you supporting Barry.
You're an idiot...you sign a career 40% shooter and then yank him for missing shots in the first half, then don't play him the second half, and then wonder why the he goes into a slump? That's ing stupid.
And you are wrong...Barry has been a statistically superior player to Devin all season that's why my argument has never changed.
And I will argue about Devin's production as well....he really hasn't out produced Barry...and I bet he's had more scoreless games.
What shots? He wasn't shooting wide open shots. You sign a career 40% shooter and tolerate watching him pass up open shot after open shot. You're an idiot.You're an idiot...you sign a career 40% shooter and then yank him for missing shots in the first half
Yes, slumps are never the fault of the shooter. Ever. They are so frail and fragile and mentally weak they have to have their hands held and butts patted and their minutes extended every time they pass up a wide open shot and pass it to a guy who ends up taking a worse shot being defended. We know your agenda would never have Brent playing badly or Devin ever playing well.
Devin is a piece of and should be waived immediately. Devin has never made any difference as a Spur.
The first game he was yanked:
0-4 in 6 minutes. Yanked.
Now exactly how many open shots do you think a guy gets in 6 minutes?
And furthermore...the open shot thing is bull anyway, number 1 prove it...I don't think you know what an open shot is, but you are stupid if you think teams just sit there daring Brent Barry to shoot, I gurantee you even now he's draws more attention on the 3 point line than any player on our team...and every player on the team passes open shots on occasion for whatever stupid reason...I saw Bowen do it in the Houston game.
The only guy that takes more 3 pointers per game is Manu.
The guy averages more shots per game than ing Rasho does and Rasho is a starter...I think he averages almost as many as Bowen does....our starting shooter.Yes, slumps are never the fault of the shooter. Ever. They are so frail and fragile and mentally weak they have to have their hands held and butts patted and their minutes extended every time they pass up a wide open shot and pass it to a guy who ends up taking a worse shot being defended.
And shooting is confidence...you don't ever yank a shooter for missing shots and that's what Pop did...because he didn't like his defense.
And didn't give him a chance to redeem himself in the second half.
Tell me Einstein...what is my agenda...why do I favor Barry? C'mon tell me...what's my agenda...dumb .We know your agenda would never have Brent playing badly or Devin ever playing well.
You are the one defending losses...your agenda should be in question.
Well to be ing totally blunt about it...he hasn't except for a loss to Houston..that's the only game deciding play I've ever seen him make...Devin is a piece of and should be waived immediately. Devin has never made any difference as a Spur.
I've seen him come in, and look good, and put points up in games we eventually lost...but as far as turning the game around?
I've never seen him do it yet...please tell me the game he did it.
Anyone can come in and put up points when the team is going good...anyone can put them up when the team is losing bad...but how many do it in a way that matters? That's the difference.
Prove it? Ask anyone who has seen the Spurs this year. Brent Barry passed up a ton of open shots this year. to deny this is the stupidest thing you have ever done -- and you've done very stupid things.And furthermore...the open shot thing is bull anyway, number 1 prove it.Making sure Devin looks like complete who has never done anything for the Spurs and Barry is the shining ray of hope for this season who is now succeeding in spite of big bad ol Pop and the most horrible, vile de able choker in the history of basketball, Devin Brown -- and who will guarantee a championship if we turn Tim Duncan into Raef LaFrentz and just keep him out of the way of our the best guard core ever to play the game of basketball, even though their memebers can't seem to put together decently consistent fourth quarters or practices or seasons.what is my agenda.That says it all right there. Waive him. Never let him darken (hmm--maybe that's the reason) the floor again.[Devin] hasn't
You know what I just realized, the epic Ghost v Marcus battles have been replaced by the newly epic Whottt v Chump battles.
Nice!
You miss the point entirely...when he started getting yanked it was for missing shots and the fact that he can't play D...if he can't hit Pop wasn't going to leave him out there to play ty D...that would produce a hesitation to shoot...I don't deny Barry has passed open shots...but you fail to acknowledge is that every ing player on the Spurs passes open shots...
You prove to me that he is passing up more than anyone...to deserve the yanking...that's what you have to prove.
And you are full of if you think the people criticizing Barry are criticizing him for passing up open shots...they are criticizing him for daring to shoot under 40% from 3. Including you.
The numbers speak for themselves...if you have some to post in Devin's favor then do so...Making sure Devin looks like complete who has never done anything for the Spurs
I'll give you a hint...don't looking at W-L statistics.
He is succeeding in spite of Pop...you know why? Because Pop doesn't have any other ing options.and Barry is the shining ray of hope for this season who is now succeeding in spite of big bad ol Pop
Same as the year we won the le.
Same as the year Steve Kerr actually got some ing PT on this team when Claxton was injured....
Same as Malik Roses' entire career prior to the arrival of Robert Horry.
I wouldn't go that far...but people are acting like Barry is the choker...when Devin is the only one who has choked this season.and the most horrible, vile de able choker in the history of basketball, Devin Brown
I am still waiting for that game he came in and turned around by the way...instead of whining like a little ...just give me the ing game and maybe I'll acknowledge you have a point.
I want to win a le this year...that's why I about losses that are stupid and things I think are hurting the team.
That is my agenda.
I think we are better as a guard oriented up tempo team...I think even Duncan wants that...you act like Duncan enjoyes doing it all by himself...you are a ing idiot if you think that.-- and who will guarantee a championship if we turn Tim Duncan into Raef LaFrentz and just keep him out of the way of our the best guard core ever to play the game of basketball,
Maybe that's because they don't get enough opportunities...even though their memebers can't seem to put together decently consistent fourth quarters or practices or seasons.
LMAO there is nothing stupider in this world than accusing a basketball fan of being a racist, it also shows how thoroughly ass ed you are in this debate. You are truly a ing idiot of the highest order...I do believe if I was a racist I would not watch so much basketball since that would seem to be a conflict of interests...Never let him darken (hmm--maybe that's the reason) the floor again.
That's a new level of stupidity even for you.
You just did.I don't deny Barry has passed open shots.Show me where I have said he shouldn't take an open shot. Show me. You'll find consistently say that shooters shoot, and a guy with a makeable open shot has to take it. I said that about Malik when everyone was saying "I never want to see Malik take another jumper ever," I say it about Rasho in the key and I said it about Barry. We didn't hire Barry to pass up open shots, and yes a shooter -- not just any Spur -- a shooter who was specifically hired to shoot -- who refuses to should should be pulled until he quits playing scared.And you are full of if you think the people criticizing Barry are criticizing him for passing up open shots...they are criticizing him for daring to shoot under 40% from 3. Including you.Yes, big bad ol Pop doesn't want to win.He is succeeding in spite of Pop.Then we're wasting money on Duncan. Get rid of him.I think we are better as a guard oriented up tempo teamI would say Parker has had myriad opportunities to not flame out in fourth quarters and Manu has has ample opportunities to play over 30 minutes without being exhausted. Barry has had many opportunities to hit open shots being the great shooter he is. There are very real limits on our guards that you refuse to acknowledge, that will come to the fore in the playoffs, as will weaknesses in Duncan's game. I never had any problem with mixing up the offense. It's the people who act like championships have been won in spite of Duncan and Pop who know nothing about how things went down.Maybe that's because they don't get enough opportunities.Nah, prejudices are very, very real.LMAO there is nothing stupider in this world that accusing a basketball fan of being a racist
so unlike Kerr, Barry needs many minutes just to get warmed up (that is when he gets warmed up). Too bad he can't just come in cold and hit shots like Kerr could. I guess we just have to hope that Barry gets better as the playoffs get closer and won't need as much playing time to heat up. Somehow I dont think there will be much available in the playoffs.
It would be nice to get instant offense from Barry, but I guess Barry is who he is.
Idiot.
Idiot.Show me where I have said he shouldn't take an open shot. Show me.
At last a response to something I actually said...who refuses to should should be pulled until he quits playing scared.
I just showed you the first game he was pulled was a game he took 4 shots in 6 minutes. You prove he was yanked that game for passing up open shots.
Big bad ol Pop s up on occasion.Yes, big bad ol Pop doesn't want to win.
Idiot.Then we're wasting money on Duncan. Get rid of him.
Wow...you'll hate on every one to defend another one of your chokers won't you...you Hedo sucking .I would say Parker has had myriad opportunities to not flame out in fourth quarters and Manu has has ample opportunities to play over 30 minutes without being exhausted.
I don't think championships have been won in spite of Duncan...I think the over-reliance on the inside outside offense...specifically in the 4th quarters of games...is predictable, is one of the main reason the Lakers were able to beat us, and dependence upon it is more a refusal to move on from a past era than it is a necessity on this team.There are very real limits on our guards that you refuse to acknowledge, that will come to the fore in the playoffs, as will weaknesses in Duncan's game. I never had any problem with mixing up the offense. It's the people who act like championships have been won in spite of Duncan and Pop who know nothing about how things went down.
Oh I know prejudices are real...I am heavily prejudiced against idiots in case you haven't noticed...as for the race thing...just shut the up Chump if you can't bring any better points...at least call me something I am...Nah, prejudices are very, very real.
Just call me a liar like you usually do when you are getting your butt kicked in an argument...it's less offensive.
Still waiting on that game Devin turned around by the way...
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