WTF are you talking about, the Hauge is the ICC
actually, the term "genocide" is reserved for another group. And they protect its usage. you bring up a good point. That's why "no one else" is using the term genocide. At the same time, "genocide" would force nations to act. So in essence, hear no evil, see no evil . . . .
yeah... that sounds about right, I can see the world backing an expedition to protect an endangered species of butterfly, I honestly can.
Collin Powell, as i previously stated in my first post, has declared the situation is Sudan a genocide, back when he was Sec. State.
The ICC is only a couple years old. The original Hague tribunal was enough. There is no need for this new ICC.
well there is no need for it, so let's ignore the genocide in sudan, veto an ivestigation, just to proove our point!
the U.S. is screwed if it does something and it is screwed it does nothing. Genocide was being committed in Iraq(many mass graves have been found), but many of you say we shouldn't be there... so, should we be there or not?
Also, why can't the other countries form a coalition and stop the genocide? Does the US have to sign off on everything in the world?
one person does not an army make. He was one loan voice in the wind and when the administration got tired of him, they dropped his butt. I'll bet that "genocide" comment was part of the reason he was dropped.
you know, if this is true then it's going to be SO easy to get Sadamm convicted. BUT, that ain't the case. Sadamm has a LOT of dirt on the USA. And we don't want that to get out. Sadamm is still loved by many in his country. Don't fall for all of the propaganda you hear in the USA. You want to harp on mass graves? clearly mass killings bother you, as well they should. Tell me, what do you think we have been doing over there since we went in?? Know the number of civilian deaths?? Probably not, because the Pentagon doesn't believe they are important enough to track. But other international monitors have kept track, and it's ugly. Add this to the dead as a result of sanctions imposed after Gulf War I and you will see "genocidal" numbers.
Aside from the gassing of the Kurds, which the Army War College thinks there is a higher chance Iran did it, tell me what bad Sadamm hussein had done? Please don't say "well, he killed and raped at will!" He was the most "progressive" leader in the middle east. Before we tell how stinky his crap is, we should take a long long look at our own country. Can't "really" say we have any rights anymore. I suspect a few here have no idea what I mean. We have the highest incarceration rate. And we put more prisoners to death than most countries. We also ain't #1 in all of the "good things either. As for a "moral" nation, we have more smut and TV than you could shake a stick at. We have 15/16 year old girls (brittney spears, others) singing songs allegorically about sex and pandering to older men. We have school shootings for no damn reason. We have more people on some type of medication that alters the mind. I could go on and on and on. This country, in theory, could be the greatest. Career politicians have pimped away its spirit for personal gain.
And when we war with someone we talk about giving that country "our democracy." Hey man, take my advice other countries, you DON'T want our version of democracy. In it, only the very rich run the nation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Jul1.html
Secretary of State Colin Powell said on Sept. 9 that the situation in Darfur cons utes “genocide” by the Sudanese government and Arab militias. Powell, who visited Sudan in early July, said the State Department came to its conclusion after interviews with refugees revealed "consistent and widespread pattern of atrocities committed against non-Arab villagers." His comments, made before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, came a day after the United States circulated a draft U.N. resolution calling for a stronger international security force in Darfur. The House and Senate passed resolutions in July calling the situation in Darfur "genocide" and urged President Bush to seek a U.N. protection force.
The 1948 U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide ( http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/p_genoci.htm ) requires signatories, including the United States, to prevent and punish genocide. Some in the U.S. government argued that the explicit use of the word genocide might alienate the Sudanese government and limit the United States’s ability to pressure leaders to stop the Janjaweed. Human rights officials counter that the U.S. declaration will draw attention to the crisis and prompt action by the U.N. Security Council.
saddam is not loved by many... none of his people ever loved him. they only feared him... the only people who wanted him back were the ones living the high life...but they too, knew their life could be taken away from them in an instant if saddamm ever thought they could be disloyal.
and reason there were sanctions imposed was because of saddam...the US doesn't just go around and try to impose sanctions on countries...
and if you truly love saddam so much and think he is such a stand up guy why weren't you living in iraq? and if you think the US is so bad why haven't you left yet?Aside from the gassing of the Kurds, which the Army War College thinks there is a higher chance Iran did it, tell me what bad Sadamm hussein had done? Please don't say "well, he killed and raped at will!" He was the most "progressive" leader in the middle east. Before we tell how stinky his crap is, we should take a long long look at our own country. Can't "really" say we have any rights anymore. I suspect a few here have no idea what I mean. We have the highest incarceration rate. And we put more prisoners to death than most countries. We also ain't #1 in all of the "good things either. As for a "moral" nation, we have more smut and TV than you could shake a stick at. We have 15/16 year old girls (brittney spears, others) singing songs allegorically about sex and pandering to older men. We have school shootings for no damn reason. We have more people on some type of medication that alters the mind. I could go on and on and on. This country, in theory, could be the greatest. Career politicians have pimped away its spirit for personal gain.
And when we war with someone we talk about giving that country "our democracy." Hey man, take my advice other countries, you DON'T want our version of democracy. In it, only the very rich run the nation.
The other countries could go into Sudan by themselves. They don't have to call it genocide. They could go in and call it a peace keeping mission.
The US is not without sin, however, which nation drafted the UN resolution and called for action via sanctions, etc. against the Arab/Muslim Sudanese govt.? Was it Germany...France....China....GB? The US can do more, but within the confines of the UN - what country has done more?
jesus, I never wanted this ing thread to be about Iraq, the only reason i brought it up to, was to establish the precednce of intervention in situations where our "leaders have recognized genocide" or what they call genocide.
Who has done more Solid D? I have to be honest, I don't think anyone has, but really what is 0+0, because the US outside of stating the obvious really has done nothing. The whole world community should be ashamed of itself, i have always maintianed this, but should not the US the self-proclaimed "leader" of the world act? We have no problem toppling one steady, possibly not benign but at least stable government in Iraq yet we allow mass genocide in another nation?
What happened to the Bush doctrine?
you can't do everything all at once... the intl community needs to step up in iraq and then we will be free to police more of the world like you want.
Well, RobinsontoDuncan, the Bush Admin. and the US is in a no-win situation now, with things going so badly with the whole trumping the UN thing with regard to WMD in Iraq. How much do they disregard the UN this time?
It is a slight exagerration to say "0+0" since Powell did go over to the Sudan with Anan and since the US did put forward the resolution for sanctions to the UN.
More tenacity and emphasis should be put forth by the US, to be sure. Particularly on the heels of leaving the 99 to recover the 1 in our own country, so-to-speak, and focusing almost totally on Terry Schiavo. Maybe now is a good time to cowboy up again and do more in the Sudan. I'm not sure how many other UN countries are listening and have the courage to act.
as long as american companies continue to buy sudanese oil, i wont buy that sanctions bull , its always nice to "talk" about imposing sanctions, it is another thing entirely to do something about it.
And again, we have 1,800 troops in Djibojti that we can mobalize and send to sudan within hours, so why are we still doing nothing?
Any peacekeeping operation in Sudan would recieve broad international support, because there has already been an outcry from all of the world community about the atrocities, we just haven't seen anyone step up to the plate. Even at 50, (well a little older but my wife says she's 29) i would be willing to risk my life to go and fight in Sudan, i would relish just the opportunity to do so.
Why wait? go help protect a village now...
right, I'll just get on a plane without a gun or any training or anyone to report to or..... dumb ass
this isn't the kind of thing to joke about, there are real people that are dead and going to die by the hundreds of thousands, women are being systematically raped and you crack jokes???
i'm sure you could be get an AK in the sudan for 50 bux... you could be taught to break it down and fire it in about 5 minutes.. the sights aren't adjustable so you would have to worry about that... you could just live in a village and tell them you would help protect them...
just like the people who become terrorists..they just hop on a plane to pakistan or wherever and say they are willing to help fight.. fighters are always welcome...
I've learned how likely intelligent conversation is with Clandestion and I think the rest of the forum is catching on.
My sister just graduated from there, and after talking with her for about two minutes on the phone I'm gonna call bull on that one.Aside from the gassing of the Kurds, which the Army War College thinks there is a higher chance Iran did it
that's really pathetic though, i bet he laughed in the holocaust musem too.
it was only because you started saying your 50 year old ass would go fight for the sudanese... bs talk... did you ever even serve your country when you were young?
when i was young enough to consider military service, the country was very anti-military, Vietnam had just occured and I was on my way to law school, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't fight now, and I resent your stupidity for suggesting that I was just talking out of my ass, i actually care about those people
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