George Karl speaks on our defense..

[Cant_Be_Faded]

every thread in the spurs forum is just an opportunity for duncan23332 to lay down knowledge like a smackdown

[TD 21]

When George Karl, out of all coaches, figured you out, you're in deep .

This is hilarious because it's true. Karl is probably the worst big name coach in the league. Despite him being considered amongst the best coaches in the game for close to two decades, his teams have never had any type of consistent iden y and the guy speaks in, as Stein refers to it, "George-isms".

Having said all that, he's clearly right about this. I thought to myself, yet again after seeing Mahinmi, couldn't this guy help this team in that regard? Like timvp said, he just looks like a basketball player. Long, athletic, fluid, decent skill level. Obviously, he's not a savior and he'll make his fair share of mistakes, but at the very least he gives this team another rim protector and that would instantly improve this team defensively.

I don't have the numbers at my disposal at the moment, but a Blair-Bonner front court has no chance at being successful defensively. When you don't have a stopper on the perimeter, you better at least have sufficient rim protection; the Spurs have neither (at least on the court). He'll more than likely never be a starter, but I get the sense that the Spurs are going to regret at least not finding out what they had with Mahinmi when it's all said and done. He should have taken over the fourth big spot in the rotation the instant Bonner was injured.

[wildbill2u]

I'm sorry that Ian hasn't got off the bench more, simply to see what he could do in games. He looks like he has a compe ive at ude when I've seen him. We could use some of that, even if he fouls out.

[guzmangm]

Funny I was just gonna post a question yesterday, if Rasho was available. He's a seven footer and knows the system and can pass. For what it's worth wouldn't take him long to get reaclamated.

[duncan228]

George Karl knows what Spurs need
By Jeff McDonald

Another shot-blocking big man.

Before Thursday's game, Denver coach George Karl took time to address what he thinks separates this Spurs team from its championship incarnations of the past: They don't play defense like they used to, partially because they don't have the interior defenders they used to.

A complete transcript of Karl's comments:

"Defensively, they are not a dominant defensive team as they once were. They used to be incredible around the basket. You now can score around the basket on them more than ever before. But they're still solid. They're still sound, conceptually. (Gregg Popovich) has tricks, he can mess with you. But they were so good for so many years.

"We chart our baskets within five feet of the basket every night. Halftime, I'd go in there against San Antonio and we'd be 2 for 15. They just wouldn't let you score around the basket. That's different.

"They used to play two bigs. Now you can take Duncan away from the basket. You can take their bigs away and attack their smalls a little more. You take Duncan in the pick and roll, you've got Bonner or McDyess or Blair covering the basket. That's just not as good as it was when it was David Robinson, or Nesterovic or Mohammed or someone like that."

Two more points:

1) The Spurs won't argue with Karl's assessment. There's a reason they've apparently been sniffing around disgruntled Chicago big man Tyrus Thomas as the trade deadline approaches.

2) How ironic that, in the hours after Karl said this, the Spurs went out and turned in perhaps their best defensive performance against the Nuggets.

[bdictjames]

Like I said, we need a good big man down low, preferably a foreigner with long arms and decent IQ. Bring back Rasho. Get Fesenko.

[Obstructed_View]

As horrible as people think Nazr and Rasho and even Elson were, they have something the current Spurs forward lineup doesn't have. All the outside shooting in the world can't make up for it.

[NFGIII]

As horrible as people think Nazr and Rasho and even Elson were, they have something the current Spurs forward lineup doesn't have. All the outside shooting in the world can't make up for it.

Agreed and that is what is so puzzling about the situation. Pop's defensive scheme requires two bigs in order to work. We really haven't had the second big to team with TD in a while. And what has Pop done about it? Not much and the lack of the second big is killing us. I would find it hard to believe that Pop hasn't made attempts at getting one. Obviously with no success. Ian hasn't won his confidence and Dice isn't the answer. If we don't trade for one then getting to the scond round in the POs might not happen. and you can forget about WCF or further.

[Obstructed_View]

Agreed and that is what is so puzzling about the situation. Pop's defensive scheme requires two bigs in order to work. We really haven't had the second big to team with TD in a while. And what has Pop done about it? Not much and the lack of the second big is killing us. I would find it hard to believe that Pop hasn't made attempts at getting one. Obviously with no success. Ian hasn't won his confidence and Dice isn't the answer. If we don't trade for one then getting to the scond round in the POs might not happen. and you can forget about WCF or further.

There was one sequence very late in the game where a dribbler got past Blair and headed toward the basket and Ian was there to seal him off. He'd rotated quickly and gotten set. It's the first time I've seen that defensive look from the Spurs in a long time.

[NFGIII]

There was one sequence very late in the game where a dribbler got past Blair and headed toward the basket and Ian was there to seal him off. He'd rotated quickly and gotten set. It's the first time I've seen that defensive look from the Spurs in a long time.

I remember that one and you are right. Was really nice to see. Damn I should have taped the game and then I could see it again. My feelings are that we may not see that too often again. I hope I'm terribly wrong on this one.

So for the $64 question - Will Pop start giving Ian more minutes?

Answer - most likely not or if he does the first time Ian blows an assignment he's back in street clothes.

[HarlemHeat37]

There was one sequence very late in the game where a dribbler got past Blair and headed toward the basket and Ian was there to seal him off. He'd rotated quickly and gotten set. It's the first time I've seen that defensive look from the Spurs in a long time.

I think it was Ty Lawson too, a guy that has killed us with penetration this year..

Just the fact that Ian is 6'11 and athletic makes him a deterrent, even if he wouldn't be able to do anything else, which I don't believe..

[K-State Spur]

So many of us have made this same observation time and time again..teams are getting Duncan out of the way and exploiting our other big, and more often than not, our other "big" is a SF..

It's obvious to everybody that this is part of the major problem defensively, so why isn't it obvious to Pop?..

Did you even read the quote you bolded? Karl was not talking about small ball. He was pointing out that other bigs were not defensive stalwarts like those we have had in the past.

Often the reason that Pop goes small is because he's not getting rim protection from the other bigs on the roster anyways.

[HarlemHeat37]

Did you even read the quote you bolded? Karl was not talking about small ball. He was pointing out that other bigs were not defensive stalwarts like those we have had in the past.

Often the reason that Pop goes small is because he's not getting rim protection from the other bigs on the roster anyways.

Obviously I read it, it was pretty straightforward..my point is that our defensive bigs are bad enough, and its even worse that our 2nd big is often not even a real big..

If Pop's reason for going small is because our 2nd bigs can't protect the rim, then that's one of the worst strategies I've ever seen..

[ElNono]

As horrible as people think Nazr and Rasho and even Elson were, they have something the current Spurs forward lineup doesn't have. All the outside shooting in the world can't make up for it.

No, they were below average. Rasho was a layup-missing machine (much like Oberto) and Nazr had hands of stone. I'm not even going to address Elson, I'm sure timvp can tell you all about him. People kept justifying them because they were, and I quote, "good positional defenders". When Horry came around, he changed a lot of that. Here was a guy that could rebound fairly well, was basketball savvy, could occasionally block a shot, knew how to draw charges in the lane, could bang with other bigs, and on top of that was clutch as from downtown.

The problem is that the Bonners of the world are much, much worse defensively than any of those guys. The offense is probably better than all of them except Horry, but just marginally. To me it's amazing, but Bonner STILL misses defensive rotations. He's been in the team for how long? 3 seasons? A personnel upgrade is a must in that position.

Oh, and I wanted to add that Dice looked terrible in the first half of the season, but he's been picking up his game a lot and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up playing substantially better defensively than Bonner by season's end.

[ulosturedge]

I've always hated this since we had Oberto, Thomas, Bonner playing center, and now we have Blair and Dice taking the torch. The defense that won us championships always had the "twin tower" setup, and somehow we went away from that. The FO hadn't heard the term "if it ain't broke don't fix it"? I mean what made Rasho and Nazr so bad that it just wasn't going to work anymore? Rasho wanted too much money? Nazr somehow ended up in Pop's doghouse? Kurt Thomas was the answer? He was a good defensive player don't get me wrong, but that doesn't make him a good option at center..not for the way our system works..and it seems the more and more we live without the more Pop thinks he can remold the team into something else and win. It's not ing working Pop! Go back to what works!

[smeagol]

As horrible as people think Nazr and Rasho and even Elson were, they have something the current Spurs forward lineup doesn't have. All the outside shooting in the world can't make up for it.

Those three guys were critiziced by 90% of the board.

And now people want them?

LOL!

[Trimble87]

Like small ball or hate it, the reasoning behind it makes sense. Pop believs that the mismatches it causes on the offensive end outway the problems on the defensive end. He's using it more then ever this year, I'm assuming, because we dont have a good big man to play alongside Tim. Our defense would be mediocre with Ian or Ratliff out there, so why not have mediocre defense and a better offense?

I'm sure some of you will get all butt hurt about this and claim Ian and Ratliff are the saviors. But Pop sees these guys every day in practice and is much much smarter then all of us. He obviously isn't seeing enough from them to give them playing time right now.

I personally hate small ball and hope we soon get back to our two 7 footer lineups in the future. But as we are currently cons uted that isn't a possibility.

[ShoogarBear]

Our defense would be mediocre with Ian or Ratliff out there, so why not have mediocre defense and a better offense?

I'm sure some of you will get all butt hurt about this and claim Ian and Ratliff are the saviors. But Pop sees these guys every day in practice and is much much smarter then all of us. .

I believe he's seen them in practice. I am beginning to doubt that he watches them in games.

With all the screwups by Bonner, Finley, and Jefferson allowed on a nightly basis, I don't see how 5-10 minutes/game of Ian for a few nights could possibly make things worse.

[Obstructed_View]

No, they were below average. Rasho was a layup-missing machine (much like Oberto) and Nazr had hands of stone. I'm not even going to address Elson, I'm sure timvp can tell you all about him.

Spoken like someone that has no ing clue about defense. Well done.

As horrible as they were, even if they never touched the ball on offense, even if they missed shots, double dribbled, shuffled their feet, pump faked a thousand times, went up soft, clanged jumpers, the fact remains that they had size on defense, and the Spurs defense was better because of it.

The Spurs have maybe had two guys in their history that could possibly make up for a lack of size in the middle, and Horry's not one of them.

[Obstructed_View]

Those three guys were critiziced by 90% of the board.

And now people want them?

LOL!

The people that were never able to mentally link Spurs defense with winning of course don't, and the people that think you need your center to score a lot of points in order to influence the outcome of a game of course don't. Rasho and Mohammed are certainly better defensive centers than anyone on the Spurs team the past couple of years that have gotten any burn.

[Bruno]

To be a great defensive team, you need both size and mobility in the paint. Right now, Spurs really lack of mobility and are very average on the size side. To offset the lack of mobility, Pop plays a lot of small ball but it makes Spurs really bad on the size side.

In a perfect world, Spurs would get a player who bring both size and mobility.

[timaios]

Elson = Mobility

Size = Rasho

Now:

Ian = Mobility

Ratliff = Size

Ian Mahinmi is 6'11
Theo Ratliff is 6'10

[ElNono]

Spoken like someone that has no ing clue about defense. Well done.

I'm sorry, I missed your credentials that allow you to be a condescending prick when talking about all things defense.
Furthermore, I called them below-average talent because they were pretty good at one thing but horrible at another. As players, OVERALL, they were below-average.

As horrible as they were, even if they never touched the ball on offense, even if they missed shots, double dribbled, shuffled their feet, pump faked a thousand times, went up soft, clanged jumpers, the fact remains that they had size on defense, and the Spurs defense was better because of it.

In conclusion:

1) They were horrible offensively
2) They provided better defense than our current bigs

Which is exactly what I wrote in my post...

The Spurs have maybe had two guys in their history that could possibly make up for a lack of size in the middle, and Horry's not one of them.

Well, Horry didn't need to make up for lack of size because he was 6'10. I'm not sure where you're going with this though...

[HarlemHeat37]

To be a great defensive team, you need both size and mobility in the paint. Right now, Spurs really lack of mobility and are very average on the size side. To offset the lack of mobility, Pop plays a lot of small ball but it makes Spurs really bad on the size side.

In a perfect world, Spurs would get a player who bring both size and mobility.

Well your fellow Frenchman has both size AND mobility..apparently that's not good enough to have gotten a chance in the first few weeks of the season..

TBH, I think Pop just has a fetish for small ball..there are a lot of coaches in the NBA that love playing a certain style of basketball, and small ball has become something Pop has become obcessed with..as I pointed out in my stats a few weeks ago, this team is significantly better with a traditional lineup of big men..

[tp2021]

This is Pop's friend! Wow this team is a joke around the league right now.

If anything, its a good thing. Hopefully it can be a wakeup call for our stubborn old coach.