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I'm not Catholic. But I would assume the catechism does not require that a practicing Catholic hold a certain ideology when it comes to those issues.
But, doctrine considers the Pope infallible and a holy intercessor, no?
It's the whole reason Martin Luther left the church and plunged Christian religion into the crisis that left many dead but emerged reformed...and bifurcated.
I'm not Catholic. But I would assume the catechism does not require that a practicing Catholic hold a certain ideology when it comes to those issues.
I can't speak for how the Pope is regarded by Catholics, but unless he's actually molesting children himself, I'm not sure that's a case of falliability. Full public disclosure is not an absolute Christian or Catholic virtue, as far as I know.But, doctrine considers the Pope infallible and a holy intercessor, no?
Did Jesus try and cover up the allegations? Then STFU! Quite frankly, I don't care what anyone else says about any faiths I may or may not have. Sometimes that is especially true for people who claim to be of the same faith.
Thought you'd never ask:
Catholic Catechism:
On sexuality
#2357 sexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex... Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained...tradition has always declared that ' sexual acts are intrinsically disordered.' They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no cir stances can they be approved.
On Abortion
#2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognised as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.
#2271 Since the first century the church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law: You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the new-born to perish...
#2272 Formal co-operation in an abortion cons utes a grave offence. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life... the Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.
#2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a cons utive element of a civil society and its legislation: 'The inalienable rights of the person must be recognised and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death... When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined... As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights.
#2275 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.
Interesting, I've got nothing for that... I suppose I would need to hear from a Catholic on how permanent (and pertinent) certain sections of the catechism are.#2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a cons utive element of a civil society and its legislation: 'The inalienable rights of the person must be recognised and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death... When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined... As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights.
As far as sexuality, I'm still not sure that section requires that a Catholic hold an anti-gay marriage position, given that one can disapprove of the sexual lifestyle while still believing that the government should be left out of it... but given the church/state implications of the previous section, I'm not positive that wasn't the intent.
Last edited by Spurminator; 06-06-2005 at 05:12 PM.
Well said.
Making all sins illegal is a position that can be shared with Islamicists.
Okay, take a deep breath and re-read the original post in this thread.
We're not talking about making abortion or same-sex marriages illegal. We're talking about how a pro-choice and pro-gay-marriage Catholic squares their position with the church.
That's it. Period.
I read fast and spoke too soon. See above.Well said.
So the doctrine of the Catholic Church is never wrong?
If you believe it is, you're obligated to work to change the doctrine or to leave the faith...not just ignore certain parts with which you don't agree.
Frankly, I believe the Catholic Doctrine is wrong on many, many, many things...it's why I'm not Catholic. Because, if it weren't for doctrine, I'd be one. They have the best churches!
Mom, can we go Catholic so we can get communion wafers and booze?
Could it be the Catholics are smart enough to know that a one-size-fits-all approach to faith is re ed?
Sounds like you have a misunderstanding of the Catholic church. There is no "adhere or leave" ultimatum. Maybe you are confusing being Catholic with being Republican.
Can you list, explicitly, "communities of faith" (ironic, you speak with a Jesse Jackson-esque tongue here) which posess moral authority? Where can a serious, intelligent believer in Jesus Christ turn to?
Don't shrivel up on us.
Last time I heard, you could be excommunicated (adhere or leave) from the Catholic Church but not the Republican Party (i.e. Log Cabin Republicans).
Seriously scott, get an MRI, you've gotten plain stupid lately...I fear for you health.
are you gonna start posting funny pictures of the pope again?
Jiminy Yonivores!
I don't believe I've ever been compared to Jesse Jackson...however, you'll find that most Reformed Protestant faiths adhere to the Apostles Creed, having it's origins in the 1st Century and that much of the doctrine places all members on equal footing, pastors are not elevated above members and member are allowed to act on their conscience - as informed by scripture - when deciding matters of polity...even if it differs with the National organization.
Therefore, each church is free to worship Christ in its fashion as its member interpret the scripture -- guided by accepted creeds and doctrine.
Apparently I'm on TROll's ignore list.
No, I just overlooked your post before...nice play on the name.
I'll ask again. Where can I turn to?
The comparison to the GOP is not unwarranted. Few, if any, are excommunicated from the RC church anymore. Like the GOP and it's LC Republicans, they prefer to take your money, while continuing to marginalize you and deny you any real place in the heirarchy. I think that LC Republicans are insane, anyway. There is no more fiscal restraint in the party, and the fundys would throw them into camps with pink triangles on if they thought they could get away with it.Last time I heard, you could be excommunicated (adhere or leave) from the Catholic Church but not the Republican Party (i.e. Log Cabin Republicans).
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