Dennis Rodman as a San Antonio SPur

[baseline bum]

Jordan's leadership is a factor, I agree.

But let's not forget that the Bulls did their due diligence

I believe KFC and Krause has a 1-2 hour meeting with Rodman before the 95-96 season
Plus. KFC is a ing hippie, so I'm sure It was a welcome change for Rodman compared to the Spurs culture

The laid back culture playing for the Lakers didn't do anything for him. Having an owner in Cuban who constantly kissed his ass and let him be himself was disastrous in Dallas. He just didn't want to get his ass kicked. Jordan was notorious for punching and beating teammates who pissed him off; for example, Horace Grant and Steve Kerr.

[baseline bum]

I think Rodman basically decided he was done after Elliott's missed FT. He appeared to be the guy who was supposed to be guarding Horry (who spent most of that play hanging out above the 3 point arc and then took a dribble and two steps inside the arc to hit his game-winner -- un-Horry like, in retrospect); Horry, however, was all alone for most of that play. Rodman made a relatively half-hearted effort to drop down and get a steal after the initial play set up and then hung out in the middle for the rest of the play. It made some sense, given that Hakeem threatened the middle as the clock wound down, but when Hakeem found Horry all alone, Rodman was standing almost on the baseline and his man was above the arc and above the free throw line. Someone else should have rotated, but nobody did. Horry hit the shot, the Rockets stole Game 1, Rodman was mentally done, and the series was basically over.

'Eh, that was typical Spurs Rodman. Mail the game in Rodman is what we saw in game 2 when he started jacking up threes, refused to get back in transition, and thus got his ass benched the final 2.5 quarters for it in a must-win game.

[baseline bum]

I remember that. Rodman's willingness to basically mail it in when he got frustrated/bored, whatever it was, was always hard to watch.

Even when Rodman was dialed in it was really anyone's guess as to exactly what he was going to do. I never viewed him as a "great" defender, or at least a dependable one, as he was out of position so often, and he was definitely an offensive liability. His gift was grabbing rebounds and that was it. Under Pop I think Rodman's head would have exploded. Pop's 'doghouse' would have been renamed the 'Rodhouse'. I don't think Rodman would have seen a lot of court time had Pop been coaching in that '95 playoffs.

Of course, some might argue that if the '95 team were a Pop coached team we'd of seen David and four guards out there against the Rockets, so there may not have been a lot of room for Rodman anyway.

Rodman was a spectacular defender early on in Detroit. He had great timing on his shotblocking and hustled like . He just quit playing D and only cared about padding his rebounding numbers by the time he got to SA. He was famous for that gy straight up and down jog he always did downcourt whether it was a transition play or just something setting up in the halfcourt.

[FromWayDowntown]

'Eh, that was typical Spurs Rodman. Mail the game in Rodman is what we saw in game 2 when he started jacking up threes, refused to get back in transition, and thus got his ass benched the final 2.5 quarters for it in a must-win game.

Undoubtedly. I have a vivid recollection of those 3's in Game 2 -- I was listening to the game on the radio (back when even an sold-out WCF game wasn't necessarily broadcast locally) and you could sense the deflating effect that Bad Worm was having on his teammates. Even being down only 5-10 points, it seemed like an insurmountable hill, particularly after the deflating way that they lost Game 1.

But you're absolutely right about the way the Worm turned in those days. It was almost literally a moment-by-moment question with Dennis during the 1995 playoffs.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Rodman was a spectacular defender early on in Detroit. He had great timing on his shotblocking and hustled like . He just quit playing D and only cared about padding his rebounding numbers by the time he got to SA. He was famous for that gy straight up and down jog he always did downcourt whether it was a transition play or just something setting up in the halfcourt.

That's a good way to describe the "jog". He really did look like he was trying to smuggle corn cobs across the border.

[lefty]

The laid back culture playing for the Lakers didn't do anything for him. Having an owner in Cuban who constantly kissed his ass and let him be himself was disastrous in Dallas. He just didn't want to get his ass kicked. Jordan was notorious for punching and beating teammates who pissed him off; for example, Horace Grant and Steve Kerr.

WHo was coaching the Lakers back then? Harris or Rambis (I don't remember); the Lakers' culture was laid back, but Kurt and Del weren't

Yeah Jordan was mean (except vs Cartwright)


Maybe the 2 extremes (too much bible chasing and too much freedom) don't work with Rodman

I gess KFC found the middle ground (that and Jordan mean bubble gums)

[baseline bum]

Undoubtedly. I have a vivid recollection of those 3's in Game 2 -- I was listening to the game on the radio (back when even an sold-out WCF game wasn't necessarily broadcast locally) and you could sense the deflating effect that Bad Worm was having on his teammates. Even being down only 5-10 points, it seemed like an insurmountable hill, particularly after the deflating way that they lost Game 1.

But you're absolutely right about the way the Worm turned in those days. It was almost literally a moment-by-moment question with Dennis during the 1995 playoffs.

That was back in the PPV days. Games 1 & 2 were either $29.95 or $49.95 each on First Choice; I think it was the latter. That really made Rob's shot in game 1 and the Rodman game 2 debacle seem like such kicks to the nuts.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The HOF lost more credibility based on his admittance. The same criteria that got Rodman in should get Bruce Bowen in, I'm assuming. And I don't know how people can argue Horry's potential HOF possibilities when Rodman appeared to get in without much problem.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

.

But you're absolutely right about the way the Worm turned in those days. It was almost literally a moment-by-moment question with Dennis during the 1995 playoffs.

I can't count the number of times that various local sports casters and writers made "As the World/Worm Turns" pun in reference to his drama back in the day.

[FromWayDowntown]

I can't count the number of times that various local sports casters and writers made "As the World/Worm Turns" pun in reference to his drama back in the day.

Unlike you, SFIE, I rely almost entirely on dated witticism.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Nonsense, FWD. It was already dated back when those clowns were saying it every other week. Now it's aged to perfection.

[cantthinkofanything]

The HOF lost more credibility based on his admittance. The same criteria that got Rodman in should get Bruce Bowen in, I'm assuming. And I don't know how people can argue Horry's potential HOF possibilities when Rodman appeared to get in without much problem.

I don't know about that. Rodman is #10 in all time rebounding. Everyone higher and most all the way through #30 are HOF's. Allthough most of those guys were great all around players. But couple the rebounding with two DOP awards and I think Rodman is a pretty easy selection. I can't find anything to back up Horry like that. Aside from the les.

[bigfan]

It would have been interesting to see Rodman act a fool if Pop was the head coach. Clash of the ans type action.

[ambchang]

The HOF lost more credibility based on his admittance. The same criteria that got Rodman in should get Bruce Bowen in, I'm assuming. And I don't know how people can argue Horry's potential HOF possibilities when Rodman appeared to get in without much problem.

I wouldn't go so far. Rodman is without a doubt the greatest rebounder in the history of the league, Bowen is no where close to that.

Also, as much as I detest Rodman for what he did while being a Spur, he was a spectacular defender with the Pistons, and later with the Bulls.

It was really a shame what he did while he was a Spur.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It would have been interesting to see Rodman act a fool if Pop was the head coach. Clash of the ans type action.

There's one an and one worm, not much of a clash really.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I don't know about that. Rodman is #10 in all time rebounding. Everyone higher and most all the way through #30 are HOF's. Allthough most of those guys were great all around players. But couple the rebounding with two DOP awards and I think Rodman is a pretty easy selection. I can't find anything to back up Horry like that. Aside from the les.

I'm with you...just older and more bitter than you are.



Rodman just struck me as an anomoly when it came to rebounding because it was clear he would choose to just do that and nothing else at times. He could definitely play D when he tried, he just chose not to much of the time.

Horry was pivitol in so many championships and whatever team he played for was always a winner. I love Horry, but I know my vote doesn't really matter.

If the people voting DPOY were unbiased I think Bowen would have/should have had at least 3 of those. Put 3 DPOY's on Bowen's resume and he's in the Hall. Oh well...I guess I need to stop with the coulda shoulda's.




The more I think about Dennis Rodman destroying Robinson's best season the more I hate him.



This thread sucks ass.

[senorglory]

Was Robinson really trying to convert players or preaching the gospel?

[FromWayDowntown]

Was Robinson really trying to convert players or preaching the gospel?

I remember that WOAI used to have a weekly Spurs show with a player coming on during an off-day to talk about the team. Frequently, in that season, that player was Sean Elliott (unsurprisingly, perhaps -- it may have actually been called the Sean Elliott Show or something like that) and he would always mention what he called "The Prayer Wars" that would go on between Avery Johnson and David Robinson. He would tell stories about one trying to outdo the other with a pre-game prayer. You got the sense that some of the guys were receptive to it, that others played along, but that there were still others who were really turned off by it. For whatever it's worth, I seem to recall Jack Haley (in his initial performance as Rodman's babysitter) basically corroborating that story and making mention of the fact that he and Dennis were really turned off by the whole thing.

I don't know that there was full-on effort to convert anyone, but with David Robinson, Avery Johnson, and Terry mings in that room, there were some fairly vocal spokesmen for God hanging around.

[lefty]

Prayer Wars

Sean

[itzsoweezee]

I was happy to see him gone.

[ChuckD]

rodman was a team player before sa, when he won 2 championships with the pistons, i think sa was too controlling for him, so he didn't try as hard, there is no doubt, in chicago/detroit he gave full effort

Revisionist history. He played team ball his first few seasons in Detroit, but they were definitely ready to get rid of him after the whole rifle to his head in his truck in the parking lot incident.

The fact is, Dennis Rodman was a mental ten year old, and an unstable one at that. The best way to get that new contract he wanted in SA was to STFU, d-up, get the boards, and win. Instead, he melted down and pouted.

Rodman did best in situations where he had babysitters in the locker room, the an hesis of the Spurs personal accountability program. He NEEDED to be controlled and did best when he was in those situations, instead of where he was expected to be an adult and control himself.

People think he only failed in SA, but he had brief stops and quick dumps in DAL and with the LAL. Even the Lakers couldn't handle him without proper locker room babysitters. He was still averaging double digit boards, but both teams dropped him like an ugly girl after only partial seasons.

[ChuckD]

I wouldn't go so far. Rodman is without a doubt the greatest rebounder in the history of the league, Bowen is no where close to that.

Also, as much as I detest Rodman for what he did while being a Spur, he was a spectacular defender with the Pistons, and later with the Bulls.

It was really a shame what he did while he was a Spur.

Uh, no. Wilt, for all of his scoring, averaged 22.9 for his career. Rodman's best single season was 18.7, and that's really all he did. Slow your roll.

[lefty]

Uh, no. Wilt, for all of his scoring, averaged 22.9 for his career. Rodman's best single season was 18.7, and that's really all he did. Slow your roll.

Wiltvwas the Shaq of his era

Rodman outrebounded much bigger players, and the likes of Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, etc...

[ChuckD]

Wiltvwas the Shaq of his era

Rodman outrebounded much bigger players, and the likes of Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, etc...

So? Wilt's career average is five boards better than Rodman's single best season. If you want to compare legitimately, Wilt's career mark is almost 10 boards per game better than Worm's. He also did MUCH more than just rebound like The Worm. He led the league in scoring and rebounding multiple times, and in 1967-68, when he got tired of people saying he was shot happy, he led the league in assists.

Oh, and Wilt was not the Shaq of his era, he was Shaq, actualized...what Shaq could have been if he weren't a lazy ass. Wilt gave as much effort as The Worm, and he did more things much better, including a CLEAR and significant edge as a rebounder. They shouldn't even be in the same conversation as rebounders. 22.9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13.1

[FromWayDowntown]

I'd be a little cautious about comparing Wilt and Rodman on sheer per game averages. When Wilt was piling up his biggest rebounding numbers, teams were averaging well over 100 FGA per game and were shooting abysmal percentages. In 1960-61, teams averaged about 110 FGA/gm and the league (collectively) shot .415 from the field. That leaves a whole lot of rebounds to be had -- well more than 120 rebounds per game.

In 1993-94, Rodman's first year with the Spurs, teams were taking about 84 shots per game and making about 47% of those shots. That leaves about 90 rebounds per game, about 30 fewer rebounding opportunities per game than Wilt had.

I'm not necessarily disputing the basic conclusion, but Rodman didn't have the kind of rebounding opportunities that Wilt did. I don't think you can just ignore that in this sort of an argument.

Expressed as a percentage of all available rebounds in a game, I'd be shocked if Rodman's numbers weren't better than Wilt's.