Did anyone hear about Larry complaining about the officials?

[T Park]

Lets hope for Ron Garretson tonight and whoever gave em that one loss on thursday.

[easjer]

I firmly believe that there are biased refs. I believe that refs can make or break a game.

But in this case? The Pistons are the only ones standing in their way. They've not played well. They went down in series where they ought to have swept. They blew games.

I can't say much about Garrettson. But I will say that in these playoffs, Danny Crawford has emerged as one of my favorite officials, because he's consistent, tight, and even. I may not agree with every call, but he keeps players focused on the game and calls both sides fairly.

This whole episode has left a bad taste in my mouth. And Larry Brown, who I respected and admired, just makes me ill. I can't stand him anymore.

[Chris4]

Well obviously it does matter who the refs are. And you are right Larry Brown is an awful coach. He must not know what he's doing by making that comment. It is true, we have lost the games and not the referees, but I can count on two hands blantantly terrible calls against us. It is just incredible.

[cmc$purs]

piston fans
piston players
piston coach


SUCK IT UP AND PLAY

[2centsworth]

Well obviously it does matter who the refs are. And you are right Larry Brown is an awful coach. He must not know what he's doing by making that comment. It is true, we have lost the games and not the referees, but I can count on two hands blantantly terrible calls against us. It is just incredible.

Usually the team getting their asses kicked complains about the refs. It's a cry for HELP!!!!!

[easjer]

OK. There have been bad calls. But it's hardly one sided, friend. This is the most evenly called series I've seen yet in this postseason. The Pistons have gotten away with just as much as the Spurs.

They're calling on both sides, so Larry Brown needs to shut it. I didn't argue about the bad calls in Game 5 y'all had against Miami, but to claim that the refs are screwing you in this series?

Sorry, go sell crazy somewhere else - we're all stocked up here.

[kukjavel]

amazingly the pistons are undefeated when they score more points than opponents so maybe they should try doing that instead of complaining about refs

[Chris4]

well then you haven't been watching the postseason until now, friend.

[travis2]

Lets hope for Ron Garretson tonight and whoever gave em that one loss on thursday.

Garretson won't be in the mix tonight. He was in Game 1 with Javie and Callahan. Game 2 was Crawford, Nies, and Fryer.

We'll probably end up with Salvatore tonight. :vomit

[easjer]

amazingly the pistons are undefeated when they score more points than opponents so maybe they should try doing that instead of complaining about refs

[nkdlunch]

when rashweed fell to the floor whining ,what a chump

yeah I was cracking up. I thought he was gonna start kicking and screaming like a 5 year old. That boy got some skills but he is the biggest baby in the league. Brown should carry around a pacifier for him.

[FromWayDowntown]

Curiously, if the NBA sticks to its format for scheduling officials in the Finals, there's a decent chance that the Game 5 crew will be Ron Garretson, Steve Javie, and Dan Crawford.

FWIW, Garretson and Javie will almost certainly call Game 5, joined by either Danny Crawford, Bernie Fryer, or Jack Nies. If this goes to 6, I'd be willing to bet that either Dan Crawford or Bernie Fryer will call that game.

That cannot be a coincidence. It is a staggering statistic.

Take solace in this: the Spurs were 38-3 at home this regular season, and are 8-2 at home during the playoffs. Of the 5 losses in 51 games, Eddie Rush was on the floor for 3 of them. By the same logic, that cannot be a coincidence, right?

[HULKAROCK]

Stat or no stat, you'll see a different team out there tonight. Sit back, relax and be ready to get dissapointed.

[nkdlunch]

I don't think blowouts should count on those ref's records.

[HULKAROCK]

Larry Brown is an awful coach.

That's what's incredible. So easily you turn on the guy when the chips are down.

[FromWayDowntown]

Garretson won't be in the mix tonight. He was in Game 1 with Javie and Callahan. Game 2 was Crawford, Nies, and Fryer.

We'll probably end up with Salvatore tonight. :vomit

There are only 6 guys in the mix for the next two games. I can't say that I know absolutely who they are, but I'm willing to bet that they are:

Bavetta
Joey Crawford
Eddie F. Rush
Joe Derosa
Bob Delaney
Bennett Salvatore

Three will get Game 3, the other three will get Game 4. If we don't get Salvatore tonight, we'll get Salvatore on Thursday.

[samikeyp]

ANYONE, Spurs fans included, who blames their teams failures on the refs is myopic and ignorant. Put down the Kool-aid people (and yes, its spelled with a K but that is another rant for another time) David Stern does not sit down with the refs before each series and say "this is how the series is going to go" I find it ironic that Piston fans (not all of course) are doing this year what they accused Laker fan of last season.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Like Danny Crawford is any friend of the Spurs...While I do believe that some refs have a quicker whistle than others, IMO they all are consistent among the teams. If a ref has a quick whistle with the Spurs, he will have it with the Heat, the Pistons, the Suns, etc. Disparity in FTA is because of the way teams play. If a team attacks the rim, they will get more whistles. If they do nothing but shoot from outside, they won't go to the freethrow line very much.

Which is the exact opposite of how game 2 was called.

16 FTs on 76 2-point shot attempts and 31 FTs on 38 2-point shot attempts.

[Browns_shadow]

Well obviously it does matter who the refs are. And you are right Larry Brown is an awful coach. He must not know what he's doing by making that comment. It is true, we have lost the games and not the referees, but I can count on two hands blantantly terrible calls against us. It is just incredible.

There you go, turn on LB. He's the only reason the Pistons have a post-Daly championship, that and the fact that the Lakers quit in the finals last year. How many hands does it take to count the dumbass personnel moves mighty Joe has made in the last 6 years? Darko over Wade and Carmello, letting Mike James go, G. Hill, the firing of Carlisle after consecutive 50 win seasons.......................

Spurs are

[WayDowntownBang]

Well obviously it does matter who the refs are. And you are right Larry Brown is an awful coach. He must not know what he's doing by making that comment. It is true, we have lost the games and not the referees, but I can count on two hands blantantly terrible calls against us. It is just incredible.

I wouldn't call Larry Brown an AWFUL coach.

Doug Collins was an awful coach.

Larry is a guy who's obviously letting his frustrations out in the public. He's breaking down, and I don't think it's a far stretch to say that we're going to have a different coach this coming year. Is Pop available?

And as long as those wild referee stats are out there, you're going to think about that. But tell me this.. if the Pistons blocked the shorts, made their shots, and blew the Spurs out of the gym, is there any way that the refs could change the game?

The Pistons can't blame it on the refs, and it's EMBARRASING to be a fan of a team who's coach even hints at that. Just play the games. If you win, stand up and cheer. If you lose, tip your hat to the team that beat you.

The Spurs and Pistons are both CLASSY organizations, and it's obvious by this board that both teams' fans have respect for the others. We don't need this kind of crap tainting this.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I wouldn't call Larry Brown an AWFUL coach.

Doug Collins was an awful coach.

Larry is a guy who's obviously letting his frustrations out in the public. He's breaking down, and I don't think it's a far stretch to say that we're going to have a different coach this coming year. Is Pop available?

And as long as those wild referee stats are out there, you're going to think about that. But tell me this.. if the Pistons blocked the shorts, made their shots, and blew the Spurs out of the gym, is there any way that the refs could change the game?

The Pistons can't blame it on the refs, and it's EMBARRASING to be a fan of a team who's coach even hints at that. Just play the games. If you win, stand up and cheer. If you lose, tip your hat to the team that beat you.

The Spurs and Pistons are both CLASSY organizations, and it's obvious by this board that both teams' fans have respect for the others. We don't need this kind of crap tainting this.

Agreed. It's one thing for fans to complain, a different animal when coaches/players do it.

[FromWayDowntown]

Which is the exact opposite of how game 2 was called.

16 FTs on 76 2-point shot attempts and 31 FTs on 38 2-point shot attempts.

That makes some sense, but I'm always reluctant to correlate FTA to FGA to find a theme. If you get fouled and go to the line for 2, you don't get a FGA (whether a 2 or a 3) so the disparity in FGA grows with each trip to the line. The Pistons also got a lot of second chance opportunities that account for the overall disparity. And the Pistons have, seemingly, made a conscious effort to not try many 3's against the Spurs so far (around 6 per game), so they're going to get a lot more 2 point attempts.

I try to stay fairly objective about the officiating, but I haven't seen any huge disparities. I thought the FT disparity was vast, but I also noted that the Spurs got to the rim far more easily in Game 2 than I ever thought they would against Detroit, which suggests to me that, despite the FGA disparity, they were attacking the rim far more aggressively than the Pistons were.

[Marklar MM]

How many hands does it take to count the dumbass personnel moves mighty Joe has made in the last 6 years? Darko over Wade and Carmello, letting Mike James go, G. Hill, the firing of Carlisle after consecutive 50 win seasons.......................

Spurs are

As of right now, the Darko pick is looking bad. We will know next year.
Mike James wanted a contract we did not want to give out.
G.Hill turned into Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins. Atkins in turn turned into Rasheed.
Carlisle alienated himself...his own fault he was fired. None of the players really cared he was fired. Some were actually happy.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

That makes some sense, but I'm always reluctant to correlate FTA to FGA to find a theme. If you get fouled and go to the line for 2, you don't get a FGA (whether a 2 or a 3) so the disparity in FGA grows with each trip to the line. The Pistons also got a lot of second chance opportunities that account for the overall disparity. And the Pistons have, seemingly, made a conscious effort to not try many 3's against the Spurs so far (around 6 per game), so they're going to get a lot more 2 point attempts.

I try to stay fairly objective about the officiating, but I haven't seen any huge disparities. I thought the FT disparity was vast, but I also noted that the Spurs got to the rim far more easily in Game 2 than I ever thought they would against Detroit, which suggests to me that, despite the FGA disparity, they were attacking the rim far more aggressively than the Pistons were.

You know, I didn't think G2 was officiated that bad.

But I'd be lying to say I wasn't ing at my TV when Detroit was whistled for 3 fouls in 30 seconds right after they cut it to 8. SA didn't make a basket until, what, the 6 minute mark of the 4th? Some of those calls on Manu were downright awful...

But that's the way it shakes out sometimes. Crying in the media surely doesn't help.

[MiNuS]

The technicals did help UP the score.The Spurs cannot control that.
The Spurs did hit 11 3's the Piston's 0. The Spurs can only help themselves.
Ginobili was relentless.He is a Spur. The Spurs are glad he is.

The Pistons have to answer on the floor against the Spurs if they make it a Pistons Vs
teh referrees,the Spurs are going to eat their lunch.