The Splitter-Duncan pairing that never happens

[purist]

The truth: Tiago is not nearly as great as he's made out to be on this forum and Bonner is not nearly as bad. Tiago is good and Bonner is serviceable but bad when he tries to do more than he is capable (like slashing to the basket).

More truth: While pairng Tiago and Tim on the floor at the same time sounds enticing, it is absolutely more critical that Tiago be on the floor when Tim is not and vice versa.

[roycrikside]

Tbh I don't want Splitter to be on the floor more just for the sake of the Tim-Tiago pairing. I just want him to play more regardless, but Pop wants to use him only for the minutes that Tim doesn't play.

Duncan will play 34-36 mins in the playoffs, you'd think, so that leaves only 12-14 for Splitter. By wanting him to play more, it necessitates playing with Duncan.

Even if Pop suddenly had a brain transplant and started playing Tiago 28 mins a night, only half of those at most would be with Tim, unless you want a second unit of Diaw-Bonner. Ideally the best scenario for Splitter is to be on the same schedule as Ginobili, where he plays about 26 mins, half with the bench and half with the starters. Really, the two of them should be together on the floor at all times period since they work the pick and roll so well.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

I think people have it completely backwards in regards to Bonner. People act like he spaces the floor and makes it easier for the rest of the team. I look at it more like the rest of the team busts their ass on offense so he can stand around and get an open shot.

Beyond the obvious choke jobs he always pulls, his role, in theory, is passive. Tiago on the other hand plays actively. He makes things happen through his own will and action (which by the way is nothing special. It's Bonner who is special in regards to the NBA because he gets paid to stand around on the job.)

What type of player do I prefer? Someone who is active or someone who just stands around?

To put it another way, Bonner is emblematic of the lazy white American who succeeds by depending on immigrant labor...ok joking about the last part, but technically it's true.

[TheSkeptic]

Tbh I don't want Splitter to be on the floor more just for the sake of the Tim-Tiago pairing. I just want him to play more regardless, but Pop wants to use him only for the minutes that Tim doesn't play.

Duncan will play 34-36 mins in the playoffs, you'd think, so that leaves only 12-14 for Splitter. By wanting him to play more, it necessitates playing with Duncan.

Even if Pop suddenly had a brain transplant and started playing Tiago 28 mins a night, only half of those at most would be with Tim, unless you want a second unit of Diaw-Bonner. Ideally the best scenario for Splitter is to be on the same schedule as Ginobili, where he plays about 26 mins, half with the bench and half with the starters. Really, the two of them should be together on the floor at all times period since they work the pick and roll so well.

Yeah. I think something like the Ginobili treatment would be right. Playing those two together would also have the added benefit of mitigating Manu's physical decline a little bit because Tiago sets awesome screens and is quick on the roll which often gives Manu a little more room to get around defenders. From what I've seen, I don't think Tim is able to set picks and run like that on a consistent basis any more.

It might not mean a whole lot but every little bit helps if it means preserving Manu a little more during playoff games imo. The thing I like about both of them is that they're not afraid when they play. For the most part I can trust our top 5 players in the playoffs and that's something I haven't experienced in a while.

[Josepatches_]

Yeah. I think something like the Ginobili treatment would be right. Playing those two together would also have the added benefit of mitigating Manu's physical decline a little bit because Tiago sets awesome screens and is quick on the roll which often gives Manu a little more room to get around defenders. From what I've seen, I don't think Tim is able to set picks and run like that on a consistent basis any more.

I'm not sure but 90% of the time the actual Duncan stays in the same position after the pick so he is wide open to take JS . If he tries to run surely he would be effective as well but his stamina would decrease quickly.

Tiago and Blair run because they have no range

[SenorSpur]

The thing is, though, Matt Bonner’s not a terrible team defender. He knows how to play help defense and rarely misses a rotation. He runs out on shooters and blocks out his man on the rebounds (even if he rarely grabs a board himself).

Bonner’s even the sixth ranked post defender in the league, according to Synergy Sports. Bonner is giving up just .58 points per possession on 83 instances this season. Overall, Bonner’s giving up .78 PPP in 322 total possessions this year. I’m terrified if someone gets him in a one-on-one situation, but simply saying he’s a bad defender is misinformed and erroneous.

With this section of his article, the author completely lost any credibility he ever may have had. He obviously didn't watch a minute of that failed Memphis series, where Bonner was repeatedly ass-raped by Darrell Arthur, Zach Randolph and whoever else Bonner was assigned to. If that wasn't enough, he should've watched how Maresse Speights wiped the floor with our red-headed boy last night.

[TheSkeptic]

I'm not sure but 90% of the time the actual Duncan stays in the same position after the pick so he is wide open to take JS . If he tries to run surely he would be effective as well but his stamina would decrease quickly.

Tiago and Blair run because they have no range

True

Yeah. I think you've explained my point better than I have.

[T Park]

48 MoH must be on the Spurs payroll.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

The thing is, though, Matt Bonner’s not a terrible team defender. He knows how to play help defense and rarely misses a rotation. He runs out on shooters and blocks out his man on the rebounds (even if he rarely grabs a board himself).

Bonner’s even the sixth ranked post defender in the league, according to Synergy Sports. Bonner is giving up just .58 points per possession on 83 instances this season. Overall, Bonner’s giving up .78 PPP in 322 total possessions this year. I’m terrified if someone gets him in a one-on-one situation, but simply saying he’s a bad defender is misinformed and erroneous.

With this section of his article, the author completely lost any credibility he ever may have had. He obviously didn't watch a minute of that failed Memphis series, where Bonner was repeatedly ass-raped by Darrell Arthur, Zach Randolph and whoever else Bonner was assigned to. If that wasn't enough, he should've watched how Maresse Speights wiped the floor with our red-headed boy last night.

I would agree.

I think the author will make a reference point to the other side of his argument, but then completely downplays the significance of that point.

For example, how can Bonner be considered a top defender if one is "terrified" that he's trapped in a one on one isolation on defense? To me, and I think to anyone with common sense, to be a good post defender you have to be able to stop you're man from scoring in isolation.

If people think of Bonner more as a robot then his play makes much more sense. He's been trained to know his role in the system. He has almost zero ability to think or act outside of some rote, memorized role.

A great regular season player, a dedicated fan of the sandwich to be sure, but not a reliable player for playoffs.

[ace3g]

If only Pop would use this mentality:

“I want to get him acclimated,” Popovich said of the versatile Diaw, who signed with the team on March 23. “I want to get him into our program, and the only way you do that is to get a guy to play. He can’t do much sitting on the bench and just try to get familiar with our program.”

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursna...e-acclimation/

[Capt Bringdown]

OP from the Dusty Garza school of sports writing.

[slick'81]

bonner is nowhere near a good defender

[SplitterHook]

We win when we score more than 100pts.

we would need an amazing lucky to score 100+ points and holding teams bellow 100 points for 16 playoffs games..

[roycrikside]

With this section of his article, the author completely lost any credibility he ever may have had. He obviously didn't watch a minute of that failed Memphis series, where Bonner was repeatedly ass-raped by Darrell Arthur, Zach Randolph and whoever else Bonner was assigned to. If that wasn't enough, he should've watched how Maresse Speights wiped the floor with our red-headed boy last night.

Some people just have a bias against certain players. If you only notice the times a player gets scored against and always dismiss the times he plays good defense, you're always going to hate the guy because every player in the NBA gets scored against.

I guarantee if you chart any random 5-game sample of the regular season, like seriously chart every play, you'd come away if not impressed, at least grudgingly admitting that Bonner is a far better defender than you give him credit for.

[roycrikside]

[B]

With this section of his article, the author completely lost any credibility he ever may have had. He obviously didn't watch a minute of that failed Memphis series, where Bonner was repeatedly ass-raped by Darrell Arthur, Zach Randolph and whoever else Bonner was assigned to. If that wasn't enough, he should've watched how Maresse Speights wiped the floor with our red-headed boy last night.

Btw, this is just such a lazy argument. If you're going to base your entire opinion of the Spurs on how they played last year against the Grizzlies and nothing that came before or after, then you should

A) Absolutely hate Tony Parker
B) Absolutely hate Tim Duncan
C) Absolutely hate Tiago Splitter
D) Love DeJuan Blair, since he was the only one besides Manu who had a positive +/-

It was one bad series of 6 games. Randolph played the by far the best basketball of his life (basically it was his '05 Ginobili postseason). He was making threes and basically everything he threw up went in. He and the Grizzlies got on a roll and everything that could go wrong for the Spurs, did. There are things called small-sample-sizes. Let it go.

[Warlord23]

Bonner is giving up just .58 points per possession on 83 instances this season. Overall, Bonner’s giving up .78 PPP in 322 total possessions this year.

This is a dishonest statistic. Let's say Bonner is on Pau Gasol, Gasol backs him down into the post, Manu gets drawn in to double-team Gasol, Gasol passes to a wide open MWP or Barnes, who makes the 3. Bonner didn't give up points to his man, but the Spurs as a whole gave up points to the Lakers, because Bonner couldn't guard his man.

You've got to admire the audacity to spin statistics and claim that Bonner is the 6th best post defender in the NBA. I'd trust TD, Splitter, Diaw and even SJax to defend the post better than Bonner. I'm not sure Bonner is the 60th best post defender in the league.

[Russ]

I had this premonition.

Guess what the starting lineup is gonna be for the Spurs against the Lakers Tuesday night?

Leonard, Parker, Green, Duncan and . . .

Splitter. (The only one I'm not sure about is Duncan.)

Why? Because it's just how Pop operates. When you least expect it, he loves to do it.

To confound, to infuriate and, most of all, to show whose in charge and who cannot be understood or predicted.

As Patton said when the other Allied generals scoffed at his hunch that the German army might try an implausible "Hail Mary" offensive through the heart of the Ardennes forest (in the movie version):

"Never has an army attempted such an offensive through such impossible terrain in the dead of winter. No sane commander would even consider it. And that's why I think it's exactly what they'll do."

(Of course, unlike Patton, my premonitions rarely come true.)

[SenorSpur]

Btw, this is just such a lazy argument. If you're going to base your entire opinion of the Spurs on how they played last year against the Grizzlies and nothing that came before or after, then you should

A) Absolutely hate Tony Parker
B) Absolutely hate Tim Duncan
C) Absolutely hate Tiago Splitter
D) Love DeJuan Blair, since he was the only one besides Manu who had a positive +/-

It was one bad series of 6 games. Randolph played the by far the best basketball of his life (basically it was his '05 Ginobili postseason). He was making threes and basically everything he threw up went in. He and the Grizzlies got on a roll and everything that could go wrong for the Spurs, did. There are things called small-sample-sizes. Let it go.

Did you just start watching the Spurs last year? Where the have you been? Of course every player gets scored upon, but that isn't the point. Seeing a player repeatedly get torched by whomever he's assigned to guard or seeing said player get pushed around the court by more physical and aggressive players, is the point.

Want more? Okay, how about watching said player post solid regular season 3-pt shooting percentages, only to choke himself away and routinely brick those same shots every postseason? Those are not lazy arguments, my friend. Those are absolute facts that are repeated constantly.

Watch the damn games some time. Take whatever sample size you wish (large or small) and I'm sure you'll notice the trend - provided you remove the Bonner blinders.

[pgardn]

Part of the problem is, especially after the LA game, people think that Duncan-Splitter can act as Bynum-Gasol. Well they cannot, defensively or offensively imo.
We will never be able to defend with these two like the Lakers. The Lakers force teams to hit outside shots first, which many opponents have accomplished with ease on them, and then spread them a bit and get after the basket. Bynum will make stupid fouls and then Gasol takes over for longer periods because he is a better athlete.

Splitter is not a shot blocker. He is very simply tall and very mobile. Duncan is a timing shot blocker. On offense I dont see the problems the article states. I think offensively it might be able to work. But it will have to be something like stated above. Splitter setting screens and Duncan roaming. Part of the problem is Splitter has not shown clearly enough that he can clean up junk off an offensive board. He kicks back out, fine, but what about that easy putback. He scores most easily on the move towards the basket after a pass. He does not get his own easily on the offensive end unless we have already spread a team by hitting outside shots, that rare occasion we he has created superior position one on one against a smaller man.

Imo the best reason to have them together is very simply rebounding. If we had Tiago, Tim, Green and Leonard along with Parker and then put in Ginobili for Green, then we have some height, AND we have the athleticism and desire to corral long rbounds.

Bonner D stats. Yes he is better, but way overrated by the article. He is usually covering the weakest big on the other team.

[jag]

You crashed their website posting that link here.

That's probably the most popular Spurs blog on the net. Don't expect you to know that though

[rmt]

The thing is, though, Matt Bonner’s not a terrible team defender. He knows how to play help defense and rarely misses a rotation. He runs out on shooters and blocks out his man on the rebounds (even if he rarely grabs a board himself).

Bonner’s even the sixth ranked post defender in the league (LOL), according to Synergy Sports. Bonner is giving up just .58 points per possession on 83 instances this season. Overall, Bonner’s giving up .78 PPP in 322 total possessions this year. I’m terrified if someone gets him in a one-on-one situation, but simply saying he’s a bad defender is misinformed and erroneous.

With this section of his article, the author completely lost any credibility he ever may have had. He obviously didn't watch a minute of that failed Memphis series, where Bonner was repeatedly ass-raped by Darrell Arthur, Zach Randolph and whoever else Bonner was assigned to. If that wasn't enough, he should've watched how Maresse Speights wiped the floor with our red-headed boy last night.

As Sheed said, "Throw it to whoever Bonner's guarding." The players and coaches know who is the weak link. Bonner's playoff failures are nothing new. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? It's all on Pop - Bonner is who he is. Pop is like a mad scientist with all these combinations but refuses to try the one that would improve our interior defense by leaps and bounds. Is it just sheer arrogance or stubbornness or what - that someone is unwilling to learn from his mistakes.

What's frustrating is that they have the solution sitting on the bench gathering dust. In years gone by Spurs' fans have been hoping for a young, mobile (okay maybe he's not athletic - but more so than any of the other big men we have) big man and he's being wasted away. I can stomach 15 minutes of Bonner in the playoffs as long as it isn't in crunch time but Blair - there's not one thing that he does that Splitter doesn't do better. And for the Pop apologists, spare me the "but Splitter doesn't spread the floor" - well, Blair doesn't either. Pop, open your eyes, give ALL of Blair's minutes to Splitter and the team will have a fair chance to compete with any team.

[TJastal]

Bonner's month of April shooting % numbers somebody posted in another thread really brought home the point to me that the guy just cannot handle pressure. It's almost like clockwork the numbers we're so eerily similar.

I bet you could chart each day of April and see a steady drop even within the month itself, day by day.

[SA210]

F Pop!

[ace3g]

The Spurs MUST Play DeJuan Blair Less

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2012/...ter-tim-duncan

[td4mvp21]

The whole "score 10, allow 7" is theoretical bull . In practice, Matt Bonner has choked every year in the playoffs. The Spurs cannot rely on him to give them that extra push on offense late in the fourth quarter.

And ever since he's been getting more minutes in playoff runs, specifically crunch time, the Spurs have gotten out in the first round twice and swept in the second round once. Certainly not the sole causation, but definitely a correlation that fails to justify playing him in crunch time.