lmao bill simmons

[jestersmash]

I can see someone like Rondo playing into his late 30s a la Kidd/Nash, but not Tony Parker.

[Solid D]

Simmons is spot-on. Good take. Boston is hard-nosed and would be the one team who could hold the Spurs under 100 consistently.

With regard to HOF bids for Manu and TP, the basic differences between Tony's chances and Manu's are that TP was a reserve for Paris Basket Racing and hasn't helped the French win a Gold Medal in the Olympics yet. They do have the same number of NBA championships and if they win a ring this year, it's very possible both end up in the Hall whether TP wins gold this summer or not.

[tesseractive]

Simmons is spot-on. Good take. Boston is hard-nosed and would be the one team who could hold the Spurs under 100 consistently.

With regard to HOF bids for Manu and TP, the basic differences between Tony's chances and Manu's are that TP was a reserve for Paris Basket Racing and hasn't helped the French win a Gold Medal in the Olympics yet. They do have the same number of NBA championships and if they win a ring this year, it's very possible both end up in the Hall whether TP wins gold this summer or not.

If Tony wins a second Finals MVP -- not unlikely if the Spurs can win out -- he's going to the Hall of Fame, end of discussion.

[tesseractive]

lol 40 year old point guard contributing.

Jason Kidd is 39.

[Brazil]

He went on to say "two elite coaches" right after "seven Hall of Famers" suggesting he wasn't including Pop. Already claiming Rondo a HOFer is ridiculous, even for Bill Simmons. And although they both have a very good chance, neither Parker or Manu are a lock for the HOF at this point. Maybe both are likely, but I wouldn't just say that flippantly to throw that 7 HOF comment around.

Shrugs, it's whatever. The comment just struck me as odd.

wtf JamStone ? Manu is not a lock for the HOF ?

[urunobili]

This series has been four years in the making and it would have happened if San Antonio didn't lose a 20-point lead in Game 1 of the 2008 Western Conference Finals.

I would correct your sentence to: "if Manu wouldn't have hurt himself playing PHX"...

[phyzik]

Jason Kidd is 39.

Jason Kidd isnt a scoring point guard like Parker is. Unless Parker evolves into an assist-first PG, his body will not let him last that long in the league.

Having said that, Parker probably has about 4-6 good years in him before Spurs have to start shopping around for a replacement to groom.

[Venti Quattro]

I would correct your sentence to: "if Manu wouldn't have hurt himself playing PHX"...

You don't lose a 20 point lead on the road and get away with the injury card. You just don't.

[Spurtacus]

You have to consider that Tony is 30 years old and has at least 5 years left, maybe 10. He basically has as much ahead of him as behind him, so he could wither away and be forgotten or he could post a few more great years at PG. Right now, if he retired, he would be in the conversation but probably not get it.

Parker's got another good 4-5 years as a starter assuming he avoids any major injury. He could still be a solid backup PG afterwards but I'd rather not see him turn into a tosb like Fisher is. I agree if he retired now he's borderline for the HOF. But another ring and Finals MVP this year will probably cement his place in the HOF.

[rayjayjohnson]

Jason Kidd is 39.

Jason Kidd doesn't contribute

[JamStone]

wtf JamStone ? Manu is not a lock for the HOF ?

We've gone through this plenty of times on these boards. I understand the HOF takes into consideration international play. I think Manu is likely, but I won't say a lock. I've said this before and laid out the facts. If Manu is a lock, Toni Kukoc should already be in the HOF.

[Spurtacus]

We've gone through this plenty of times on these boards. I understand the HOF takes into consideration international play. I think Manu is likely, but I won't say a lock. I've said this before and laid out the facts. If Manu is a lock, Toni Kukoc should already be in the HOF.

Kukoc was never an All-Star

Kukoc never made the All-NBA team

Kukoc never won an Olympic medal


I get the comparison but Ginobili's career, both internationally and NBA, is superior.

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan has been the best Spurs player in the playoffs, a Finals MVP for Parker isn't a given, if the Spurs win the le..

[JamStone]

Kukoc was never an All-Star

Kukoc never made the All-NBA team

Kukoc never won an Olympic medal


I get the comparison but Ginobili's career, both internationally and NBA, is superior.

The argument that is made for Ginobili and the HOF is that his international career makes him a lock. If you look at only Ginobili's NBA career, you wouldn't put him in the HOF. Disregard the NBA careers of either player. The view is Ginobili gets in because of his international career. Kukoc's international career is as good as Manu's.

That's not to say Manu won't get in. I already said it's likely. But if he's a lock, Toni should already be in.

[Spurtacus]

The argument that is made for Ginobili and the HOF is that his international career makes him a lock. If you look at only Ginobili's NBA career, you wouldn't put him in the HOF. Disregard the NBA careers of either player. The view is Ginobili gets in because of his international career. Kukoc's international career is as good as Manu's.

That's not to say Manu won't get in. I already said it's likely. But if he's a lock, Toni should already be in.

I gotcha and agree his international career only doesn't get him in.

[Solid D]

I gotcha and agree his international career only doesn't get him in.

While Manu only played professionally for 4 years in Europe, he had a big impact. Italian League Championship, Euroleague Final Four Championship, Euroleague Final Four MVP, Twice Italian League MVP. Then you add in the Olympic Gold Medal and Silver Medal in World Championships and 3 NBA championships, what more do want? You can count the number of players in the world who have accomplished all that...on 1 or 2 fingers, much less an entire hand. Body of work stares you down.

[Spurtacus]

While Manu only played professionally for 4 years in Europe, he had a big impact. Italian League Championship, Euroleague Final Four Championship, Euroleague Final Four MVP, Twice Italian League MVP. Then you add in the Olympic Gold Medal and Silver Medal in World Championships and 3 NBA championships, what more do want? You can count the number of players in the world who have accomplished all that...on 1 or 2 fingers, much less an entire hand. Body of work stares you down.

Is there an international player in the HOF we can compare Manu's body of work to? I wasn't discrediting his international accomplishments because they are incredible as you listed. I just have to agree that part of his career doesn't make him a HOFer. I think you may have misunderstood my post since you added the 3 NBA championships bit.

But you throw in his NBA career-3 rings, 2x All-Star, 2x All-NBA third team, Sixth Man-he's certainly HOF bound.

[Solid D]

Yep. I just used your quote to post. I could tell you were a embracing the body of worK notion.

[jestersmash]

We've gone through this plenty of times on these boards. I understand the HOF takes into consideration international play. I think Manu is likely, but I won't say a lock. I've said this before and laid out the facts. If Manu is a lock, Toni Kukoc should already be in the HOF.

What do you mean "already?" 2012 was the first year that Kukoc was eligible for HOF if I recall correctly, and it's pretty obvious that neither he nor Ginobili are 1st ballot HOFers, so it's not surprising at all that Kukoc isn't in the HOF the first year he was eligible.

I expect him to be in the hall sometime in the next 5-10 years. He's one of those rare players (like Ginobili) who's a lock for the hall but not as a 1st ballot HOFer. Differentiating between "1st ballot" and non-1st ballot is essentially an unofficial way to pay some extra homage to extra special candidates (M.J., Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, Shaq, etc.).

[JamStone]

You know, that's seriously my bad. I didn't realize Kukoc played in the league as recently as 2006. That makes my argument over the last couple years (I'm pretty sure I had made the argument as far back as a couple years ago based on the belief Kukoc had been eligible for a while) pretty stupid if he hasn't been eligible until recently. Seriously, my bad.

Good correction. Thanks.

[Capt Bringdown]

Doc Rivers is an elite coach?

Pop has bowel movements that are smarter than Doc Rivers.