Duncan is the best player since MJ...and its not even close.

[OKC Thunderstorm]

It's Duncan and Kobe.. Lebron will join them when he starts collecting and stops just stuffing stat sheets...

Finally, a Spur fan with some perspective. Durant will pass all 3 before he is done. 3 scoring les and two trips to the WCF. Once we start winning Durant will surpass them all.

[Kidd K]

OP, as much as I love Duncan and think he's easily better than Kobe. . .

Pippen was not a role player, give the guy the credit he deserves. He did benefit from the presence of Jordan, but he was better than Wade imo.


I don't think you can launch Duncan up to #2 or #3 slot either just with one more ring. Kareem had 6 rings and 5 MVPs, not to mention a longer career and leads the NBA all time in scoring. Bill Russell has 11 championships. . .Magic also has 5, though I could see the argument for Duncan over him if he indeed gets 5.

Still, Duncan would at best be #4 really. I couldn't put him past Russell or Kareem that easily. And we'd be putting him above Magic and Chamberlain to get to 4 which could be argued against

However: Right now: Better than Kobe easily. Better than Bird. Better than Hakeem. Better than Shaq with another ring. Better than everyone else I didn't mention besides MJ. But not sure you could put him above those other 5 just yet. With a ring he's #6, arguably as high as #4. We could go in the middle and call it 5. But 2-3? No man. . .he needs 6 for that. That's what separates the top 3 from the rest. MJ: 6. Kareem: 6. Russell: 11. Duncan can be no higher than 4 with 5 rings.

[OKC Thunderstorm]

A bunch of delusional posters on this site. Way better than Kobe?
For sure top 5 all-time? Best since MJ The guy IS great. In fact, since MJ it is a short list: Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Lebron and soon to be My boy KD. Out of respect for les Lebron and KD have to wait but once they start ringing Duncan will drop and Kobe too. Shaq though dominant for a while is barely in the convo. It shall come to pass after MJ:

1. Durant
2. Kobe
3. Lebron
4. Duncan
5. Shaq

And that is the bottom line, because the DURANTULA says so!!!

[OKC Thunderstorm]

OP, as much as I love Duncan and think he's easily better than Kobe. . .

Pippen was not a role player, give the guy the credit he deserves. He did benefit from the presence of Jordan, but he was better than Wade imo.


I don't think you can launch Duncan up to #2 or #3 slot either just with one more ring. Kareem had 6 rings and 5 MVPs, not to mention a longer career and leads the NBA all time in scoring. Bill Russell has 11 championships. . .Magic also has 5, though I could see the argument for Duncan over him if he indeed gets 5.

Still, Duncan would at best be #4 really. I couldn't put him past Russell or Kareem that easily. And we'd be putting him above Magic and Chamberlain to get to 4 which could be argued against

However: Right now: Better than Kobe easily. Better than Bird. Better than Hakeem. Better than Shaq with another ring. Better than everyone else I didn't mention besides MJ. But not sure you could put him above those other 5 just yet. With a ring he's #6, arguably as high as #4. We could go in the middle and call it 5. But 2-3? No man. . .he needs 6 for that. That's what separates the top 3 from the rest. MJ: 6. Kareem: 6. Russell: 11. Duncan can be no higher than 4 with 5 rings.

[Galileo]

I didn't want to start a whole thread about this, but this thread seems about as good a place to ask my question as any other.

If the playoffs ended today who would be the MVP? Is it Duncan? Tony? Someone Else? I can't quite figure it out.

Duncan has the best stats easily on a per minute basis.

[BadMotorscooter]

OP, as much as I love Duncan and think he's easily better than Kobe. . .

Pippen was not a role player, give the guy the credit he deserves. He did benefit from the presence of Jordan, but he was better than Wade imo.


I don't think you can launch Duncan up to #2 or #3 slot either just with one more ring. Kareem had 6 rings and 5 MVPs, not to mention a longer career and leads the NBA all time in scoring. Bill Russell has 11 championships. . .Magic also has 5, though I could see the argument for Duncan over him if he indeed gets 5.

Still, Duncan would at best be #4 really. I couldn't put him past Russell or Kareem that easily. And we'd be putting him above Magic and Chamberlain to get to 4 which could be argued against

However: Right now: Better than Kobe easily. Better than Bird. Better than Hakeem. Better than Shaq with another ring. Better than everyone else I didn't mention besides MJ. But not sure you could put him above those other 5 just yet. With a ring he's #6, arguably as high as #4. We could go in the middle and call it 5. But 2-3? No man. . .he needs 6 for that. That's what separates the top 3 from the rest. MJ: 6. Kareem: 6. Russell: 11. Duncan can be no higher than 4 with 5 rings.

I think you missed the fact that Kareem is 6-3 in Finals appearances and only has 2 Finals MVP's. Would you say 5-0 in the Finals with 4 Final MVP's is less than 6-3 in the Finals with only 2 Finals MVP's? That is the point i was making....Duncan, with a ring...and possibly Finals MVP....will be argublly a top 3 player of all time.....at worst #4.

[tesseractive]

Duncan has the best stats easily on a per minute basis.

Stats per minute isn't a great benchmark for MVP -- if you need your MVP on the floor for 46 minutes a game at the cost of weaker per-minute stats, you do it.

Something like win shares is going to give you a better metric.

[KD4MVP]

Right now, probably Duncan, by a smidge over Kobe....

As for LeBron, he lost any shot he had at being one of the all-time greats as soon as he went to Miami, and took the easy way out.

[Russo21]

I can't remember exactly which year it was. Back when we played Seattle in the playoffs..

Ray Allen back then said in an interview he thought Duncan was top 5 all time.

Probably a bit high but nearly right. Duncan was in the middle of his MVP/Best in NBA reign when Ray Ray said that. But either way, that was major Kudo's from Ray Allen back then.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Duncan>Shaq>Kobe

Gervin>Durant

[Spur|n|Austin]

It's kind of hard to understand why someone that talented isn't winning it all each year. There's no one that can really guard him.

No it's not. One man doesn't win a championship.

[spursfaninla]

A bunch of delusional posters on this site. Way better than Kobe?
For sure top 5 all-time? Best since MJ The guy IS great. In fact, since MJ it is a short list: Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Lebron and soon to be My boy KD. Out of respect for les Lebron and KD have to wait but once they start ringing Duncan will drop and Kobe too. Shaq though dominant for a while is barely in the convo. It shall come to pass after MJ:

1. Durant
2. Kobe
3. Lebron
4. Duncan
5. Shaq

And that is the bottom line, because the DURANTULA says so!!!

Laughing does not win arguments where I come from.

Amazing that people in OK can predict the future. Here in California, people are only able to know what has happened so far. I mean, no one saw Rose going down in the playoffs and losing a year, and possibly a chunk of his athleticism. Great that you know Durant's career will not be effected by injury. Duncan has had his share of injury, you know, but his game is not really dependent on his athleticism. Durant...well, I digress.

In any case, your prediction of where Lebron and KD end up is interesting; how many rings do you think they will split? 5 each? KD is only 23, so he has 10 good years, barring injuries, etc, to get a bunch. Lebron is a bit older, around 27 I believe, and every bit as dependent on athleticism to be productive, so I give him until about 33 as well to be an elite player.

Best case scenario for your case is they each get 5, and beat out TD by doing so IF TD does not ring this year. If TD rings this year, I find it hard to put KD or James ahead of him.

TD was the best player on the team for the last 4 les; even if he was not the highest point generator this year and the last championship, his defense made up for that. He is a two-time league MVP, 3-time finals MVP. KD has zero; LBJ has 3 regular season MVP, which is great, but he still needs to at least match TD's rings to be ahead of him.

Kobe was not even the best player on his team during his first 2 les. He was arguably co-best player on the 3rd le. So I give Kobe 3 les as "the man." Kobe has maintained his productively for a really long career, but he lacks some of the team-centered mentality that prevents him from maximizing the productivity of his team-mates, and I think alienates them. He is driving away Pau and Bynum, just as he drove away Shaq, because of his need to be the man. For these reasons, hard for me to put him ahead of Duncan.

[OZWIN]

You're kind of pushing your luck saying that Duncan is pretty much the second best player of all-time...but this is the Spurs forum and stupid threads like these will occur evidently.

Kobe is the only player that comes close to Michael Jordan...and I'm pretty Jordan even stated that himself. Duncan is great...he is a top three power forward of all-time but no where near top three of all-time...let's keep it real here please.

You're forgetting about Wilt, Magic, Bird, and Kareem.

Duncan is top ten all-time though...if he wins another ring and the finals MVP this year again...this thread has a case but I don't think he is better than Jordan, Kobe, and Wilt for now. Bird and Kareem you have a case though...even right now with not another ring/Finals MVP.

[spursfaninla]

You're kind of pushing your luck saying that Duncan is pretty much the second best player of all-time...but this is the Spurs forum and stupid threads like these will occur evidently.

Kobe is the only player that comes close to Michael Jordan...and I'm pretty Jordan even stated that himself. Duncan is great...he is a top three power forward of all-time but no where near top three of all-time...let's keep it real here please.

You're forgetting about Wilt, Magic, Bird, and Kareem.

Duncan is top ten all-time though...if he wins another ring and the finals MVP this year again...this thread has a case but I don't think he is better than Jordan, Kobe, and Wilt for now. Bird and Kareem you have a case though...even right now with not another ring/Finals MVP.

I am not even talking Duncan top 3. I am merely comparing Kobe to Duncan, by arguing that Kobe was not the top dog on all of his championships, compared to Duncan, who was. Kobe does not compare to Finals MVPs, season MVPs, or "top dog" rings compared to duncan.

2000: Shaq was MVP. Shaq averaged 29 points that year on 57% shooting, and playing 40 minutes a game. Kobe scored 22 ppg, shot 46%, 31% from three. Kobe had some heroics in the finals, but generally speaking, Shaq was the top dog that year.

2001: Shaq and Kobe scored the same points per game, about 28. They both played about the same amount of minutes. Kobe's shooting percentages were about the same as above, as was shaqs. Shaq got finals MVP, as he would in 2002. This year, Kobe got All-NBA second team, Shaq got all-NBA first team. Shaq appears to be top-dog again.

2002: About the same as above. Shaq and Kobe both get All-NBA first team. However, Kobe did really well in the Finals, as well as in 4th quarters generally. That was the year Kobe closed out the spurs in 4th quarters. Kobe was clearly the closer, and that makes him at least co-leader of this team.

That makes Kobe the leader on 3 rings. Duncan: 4.

Other than duncan having more regular season MVPs, finals MVPs, and top dog rings, they are fairly comparable in their accomplishments.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

It's not about what he won. It's about what he will win, obviously...

he's been in the league since '03. when is he gonna start?

[OZWIN]

I am not even talking Duncan top 3. I am merely comparing Kobe to Duncan, by arguing that Kobe was not the top dog on all of his championships, compared to Duncan, who was. Kobe does not compare to Finals MVPs, season MVPs, or "top dog" rings compared to duncan.

2000: Shaq was MVP. Shaq averaged 29 points that year on 57% shooting, and playing 40 minutes a game. Kobe scored 22 ppg, shot 46%, 31% from three. Kobe had some heroics in the finals, but generally speaking, Shaq was the top dog that year.

2001: Shaq and Kobe scored the same points per game, about 28. They both played about the same amount of minutes. Kobe's shooting percentages were about the same as above, as was shaqs. Shaq got finals MVP, as he would in 2002. This year, Kobe got All-NBA second team, Shaq got all-NBA first team. Shaq appears to be top-dog again.

2002: About the same as above. Shaq and Kobe both get All-NBA first team. However, Kobe did really well in the Finals, as well as in 4th quarters generally. That was the year Kobe closed out the spurs in 4th quarters. Kobe was clearly the closer, and that makes him at least co-leader of this team.

That makes Kobe the leader on 3 rings. Duncan: 4.

Other than duncan having more regular season MVPs, finals MVPs, and top dog rings, they are fairly comparable in their accomplishments.

Kobe has five rings...you counted wrong. Didn't really care to read anything else in your post merely because my post was to anyone who thinks Duncan is a top 3 player of all-time and second to only Jordan...that is what the OP stated.

Kobe is better than Duncan all-time and anything from stats or someone who actually knows the game of basketball and isn't a biased Spurs fan/Kobe hater knows this.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

A bunch of delusional posters on this site.

1. Durant
2. Kobe
3. Lebron
4. Duncan
5. Shaq

i know what you mean.....

[therealtruth]

Laughing does not win arguments where I come from.

Amazing that people in OK can predict the future. Here in California, people are only able to know what has happened so far. I mean, no one saw Rose going down in the playoffs and losing a year, and possibly a chunk of his athleticism. Great that you know Durant's career will not be effected by injury. Duncan has had his share of injury, you know, but his game is not really dependent on his athleticism. Durant...well, I digress.

In any case, your prediction of where Lebron and KD end up is interesting; how many rings do you think they will split? 5 each? KD is only 23, so he has 10 good years, barring injuries, etc, to get a bunch. Lebron is a bit older, around 27 I believe, and every bit as dependent on athleticism to be productive, so I give him until about 33 as well to be an elite player.

Best case scenario for your case is they each get 5, and beat out TD by doing so IF TD does not ring this year. If TD rings this year, I find it hard to put KD or James ahead of him.

TD was the best player on the team for the last 4 les; even if he was not the highest point generator this year and the last championship, his defense made up for that. He is a two-time league MVP, 3-time finals MVP. KD has zero; LBJ has 3 regular season MVP, which is great, but he still needs to at least match TD's rings to be ahead of him.

Kobe was not even the best player on his team during his first 2 les. He was arguably co-best player on the 3rd le. So I give Kobe 3 les as "the man." Kobe has maintained his productively for a really long career, but he lacks some of the team-centered mentality that prevents him from maximizing the productivity of his team-mates, and I think alienates them. He is driving away Pau and Bynum, just as he drove away Shaq, because of his need to be the man. For these reasons, hard for me to put him ahead of Duncan.

KD is a guy who could play for a while. He is not overreliant on his athleticism.

[BadMotorscooter]

Kobe has five rings...you counted wrong. Didn't really care to read anything else in your post merely because my post was to anyone who thinks Duncan is a top 3 player of all-time and second to only Jordan...that is what the OP stated.

Kobe is better than Duncan all-time and anything from stats or someone who actually knows the game of basketball and isn't a biased Spurs fan/Kobe hater knows this.

Hey...I get it. You think Kobe over Duncan. The world needs fools too. I see some people that think swampland in Florida is a good investment. It is what it is.....

[moisaenz]

I love to hate kobe lovers.. Kobe has talent no doubt about it, he is resilient, but you can compare his leadership to Duncan's. Besides Duncan has not had the fortune of getting an all-star dominating Center land on his team via free agency or another all star big thru a trade...

On a sidenote Duncan has been the man when he had to .. and has accepted to give up some of the spotlight to another player because he wants to win, he knows he is old and can't do much unlike Bryan who has probably one of the top 3 big man on his team and cant give up the spotlight.

[Sean Cagney]

A bunch of delusional posters on this site. Way better than Kobe?
For sure top 5 all-time? Best since MJ The guy IS great. In fact, since MJ it is a short list: Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Lebron and soon to be My boy KD. Out of respect for les Lebron and KD have to wait but once they start ringing Duncan will drop and Kobe too. Shaq though dominant for a while is barely in the convo. It shall come to pass after MJ:

1. Durant
2. Kobe
3. Lebron
4. Duncan
5. Shaq

And that is the bottom line, because the DURANTULA says so!!!

I say you are on crack punk........... yo post punk.