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Tim 3-3
Karl 0-2
It's the only stat that matters when comparing great players.
By the way. Duncan has 3 rings and malone 0
Tim 3-3
Karl 0-2
It's the only stat that matters when comparing great players.
BULL . He had another top 50 player, one of the best pure PGs of all time, spoonfeeding him assists in a system designed for the two of them..
Like any team with Greg Oster as their starting center is going to get them a championship.
Like any team with Rasho as their center is going to............oh wait nevermind.
At least Rasho has a jump shot. Oster had .
Homeboy, the stat is:
Tim 3-3
Warm Karl 0-3
"A 95 Houston- 05 Detriot matchup would be pretty fantastic, imo."
What, a '95 Houston - '05 San Antonio sounds too shabby?
Those of you who think Wilt, Kareem and Russell played against "easier compe ion" have never watched them play against great, great players like Nate Thurmond, Bob Lanier, Bill Walton (depending on era) and many others.
Comparably speaking most of the centers today are "stiffs". Wilt in particular would have had a field day - think of Amare with 3 more inches and even more athletism. (*Wilt was a world class high jumper, sprinter, and even seriously considered boxing Ali).
Wilt (and Kareem) by the way are so much better than Shaq it isn't funny.
Shaq is so, so over-rated - has never won a rebound or block le despite his huge size, has the most limited range of any "great center" ever, and has scored a great number of his points on what many consider an illegal move, i.e. drop the shoulder under the defenders head and bowl him over.
Real ranking of top centers:
1) Russell (its all about winning and was greatest player of century in vote of experts, review of films show that in some seasons he averaged > 8 blocks a game and > 20 boards a game)
2) Wilt - best offensively by far, hands down = Shaq not even in equation.
3) Kareem - most unstoppable shot, 5 les, 6 MVPs and under-rated defensively.
4) Hakeem - in reality almost the perfect center, in todays game would eat up the league.
5) Robinson - when Shaq wins a le without Kobe or Jackson move him past David. Those of us who saw David play him in his prime saw him frequently school Shaq and David much, much better defensively = that is where games are won!
I am agree. Tim is a legend and it will be this for ever!
Bill Russel
Lew Alcindor
Wilt Chamberlain
Shaquille Oneal
Moses Malone
the best Centers in Order. Wilt would be higher, but he didn't start making his teammates better until late in his career, when he coincidentally started winning championships. The rest of those centers made their teammates better always.
Duncan makes his teammates better. And he is a power forward, not a center. If he was a center he wouldn't be nearly as effective. He needs to be out on the wing sometimes to hit that jumper off the glass. He needs a center to rotate with.
Leave him off that center list, because he's not a center. Instead he happens to be the best power forward that the game of basketball has ever seen.
It's a new era. David Robinson was a pf who played c. TD is a C who plays PF. KG is a pf who plays SF. Screw that. They're where they are in the lineup because that is their natural position.
and before i go... about RUMMPD's post just previous to mine... the best five centers?... if you need three lines of text to tell us why Dave was in the top five while no other center required more than two lines.... well.... that's a telling word count.
Here's my rebuttal:
"When Robinson wins a le without Timmy or Poppovich move him past Shaq. Those of us who saw Shaq play him in his prime saw him frequently school David. And Shaq much, much more enormous=3 championships in a row and five finals appearances."
Don't get me wrong, i love Dave, but let's not kid around with history.
Nobody in the Spurs backcourt is as good as John Stockton was. Not even Ginobili. John Stockton was there for most of Malone's career. Everything you just posted is bullcrap.
oh by the way rummpd, everything you said before you wrote your list and up until you picked Drob at five... I thought it was fabulous.
but sorry. I can't put drob at five. top ten yes, but not top five.
Tim plays both the 4 and 5, fairly interchangeably, all the time. Yes, he has jumped center (Jim, you have selective memory). When Rasho went down and Malik and Tony were the alternatives, Timmy jumped at center court.
Who was playing 5 during the 4th quarters of all the playoff games when Robert Horry was in there knocking down wing and corner threes?
Timmy isn't a pure center and he's not that great of a leaper. He's a great post player in a hub and spoke style of offense. He's also a great player out on the floor setting screens and knocking down jab step 16 foot bankers. Whenever All-Star teams or Team USA use Timmy, he's more often than not playing in the post at the 5 spot, especially if Shaq is not on the same team.
He's officially a 4, but let's be realistic, he plays 4 and 5 interchangeably and at HOF standards.
The only year Shaq was "unstoppable" was 2001 ... period. He has and will continue to be a dominate force in the league. But unstoppable, please.
In 1995 the Dream gave Shaq nightmares before he quit on the Magic. From 1996 to 1998 Shaq could not get his Lakers past Malone and the Jazz. In 1999, 2nd year Duncan was the interior force in the Spurs sweep of Shaq and the Lakers. In 2002, 2003 and 2004 Duncan was overall more dominate in Spurs/Lakers playoff series. Shaq just had Kobe in 02, and .04 in 04 to bail him out. In 2004 and 2005 the Pistons played Shaq one on one, and had little trouble destroying Shaq's Lakers and demonstrating Wade was the MVP of the Heat.
Malone had Stockton, one of the best PGs in the history of the game, FOR HIS ENTIRE CAREER! They also had many great support players who you disrespect with non thinking comments.
I'm not disrespecting your comment but Utah was a 2 man team. San Antonio had a defensive stopper in Bowen, most efficient guard in the league in Ginobili, a better than average center in Mohammad, and a solid point guard in Parker. Utah did have Stockton but I wouldn't call Russell or Shandon Anderson great players and Oster is as bad of a center as you can have to start a game.
Out of the Malone/Duncan vein.
Who would you rather build a team around, Duncan or Malone?
With Duncan as the only holdover from the 1999 championship team, the Spurs did just that. Malone jumped ship to LA, and the rest is history.
Malone in his prime is the best Power Forward. He defines the word Power Forward and I hate Malone but have to give him his props.
Here's another topic to think about. What if duncan started his career with stockton? I think up to this point td would average 2-4 pts more per game in his career. I think duncan is better then malone because td is a better scorer in the post one on one.
Malone would post up flail his arms and prey for a foul. He was best with the pick and roll or moving w/out the ball waiting for stockton to dish to him. Utah had some talent other then stockton/malone, russell had some good years and hornacek was an all star. Jeff malone was also a very solid role player.
With d it's no compe ion between the 2. Duncan is much better because of his size. I take duncan by a little over malone.
Malone at one point in his career was the most efficient player of all time counting fg% and ft% and he always averaged more than 10 rebounds. He had one year where he was averaging over 30 points. Just look at his stats from 89-95 and that was before Hornacek.
Jeff Malone, Thurl Bailey and Mark Eaton weren't that bad. Malone was a great PF, and definitely one of the top 5, but I won't call him the best PF with any sort of conviction. Barkley, McHale, Duncan and Hayes were all at least on the same scale. Then you have a guy called Elgin Baylor, man, that guy was good, and then another called Bob Pet e. The greatest PF of all time is not a one-horse race, arguments can be made with all of them.
Shaq's Lakers beat the Spurs 3 out of 5 in the postseason. So Shaq edges Duncan when it counts.
Shaq's first trip to the Finals was in his only 3rd year. He faced Hakeem at his absolute peak and held his own. Duncan's first trip to the Finals was against Larry Johnson and Kurt Thomas. Enough said.
Shaq has 5 Finals trips to Duncan's 3.
Duncan is the more complete player, yes. But overall Shaq at his peak just dominated the game in a way Duncan could not have. Duncan was not shut down, but contained by the Wallace's in the NBA FInals. HE scored 20 ppg and shot just 41% from FG. At his peak, you just could not ever expect to hold Shaq to these #'s even if you had a Robinson, Hakeem, or Mutombo guarding him. He was just that good.
I'd also take his post passing over Duncan's. Defensively, Ducnan is better but let's not make it out like it's David Robinson vs. Shaq. It's a close call. Duncan has never won a Defensive player of the yr award.
Shaq was competing against a top 5 center of all time and top 10 center of all time in the mid 90's for the all-nba awards while Duncan has 2 forward spots, so i'd put absoultely 0 stock in a stat like that.
Think of it this way: In Shaq's heyday, you heard talk of "is shaq better than wilt? is he the best center ever? is he better than mj?" You don't hear that about Tim Duncan, because he's great, but just not at that super elite level of a Shaq.
hey bobby u get funnier and dumber by every post.
So wat if shaq made the finals in his 3rd season, duncan did it in his second.
And ur statement about it being against larry johnson and all that bull , he did
go through shaq and kobe before he got to the finals so dont be stupid.
But still, i do believe this duncan being better then shaq thing is to premature, he
is tied for my favourite player but even i wouldnt go too far.
But u gotta stop talkin all this , know wat ur talkin about when u post something
In regards to the top centers of all time, from what ive read on most nba boards and things like that, there is generally a consensus as to who the top 5 are, but the order is always changing...
generally the top 5 is - wilt, russel, kareem, hakeem and moses malone / shaq...
with david robinson, walton and ewing coming next...
My personal opinion, trying to be unbiased to putting Drob #1 is...
1. Kareem - dominated for such a long time.
2. Russel - the rings speak a lot
3. Hakeem - unfortunately...
4. Wilt - just didnt win enough
5. Shaq - unfortunately again...
6. Moses malone - he was a beast
7. DRob - better than the rest, but not quite better than the above
8. Walton - if it wasnt for injuries, he probably would be higher
9. Ewing - when he wasnt injured, he was pretty damn good
10. ?
But then again, thats just my opinion...
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