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I think it's just about a draw. Tim has never had the sheer physical dominance that Shaq enjoyed, but he did get his 3 rings at a younger age.
Shaq's 2000 season was one of the greatest seasons by any player in the history of the NBA. He was bound to tail off a bit, particularly when his abilities went to his head. That was also the one season he made any semblance of an extra effort on defense.
I think it's just about a draw. Tim has never had the sheer physical dominance that Shaq enjoyed, but he did get his 3 rings at a younger age.
Did anyone say at ude would get you greatness?
Last time I checked Rasheed sucked...
Duncan needs no at ude to achieve greatness... infact that's part of his gratness Pistons>Spurs...
Yeah but that's also because Shaq doesn't have any outside game.
Call me the next time Shaq gives 100% effort on the boards and D. That is when I'll compare him to Timmy.
assuming they can get past the Pistons.I expect a Shaq vs. TD showdown in the 2006 FINALS. Bring it on shaqfoo
I still like to duck this question at times, going the old "they don't play the same positions" route. But it is inevitable that two dominant big men must be compared. They both have three rings, so scoreboard is even on championshipability. Tim will end up ahead in that department, excluding injuries, no doubt whatseover. Statistically Shaq is an obvious monster, so he definitely gets the edge there.
This past season, I actually gained more respect for Shaq's leadership, than from any other year in his career. Yes, he is on the decline, as he is 33 years old. But at the same age as Duncan is right now, Shaq was absolutely destroying the league. Statistically, Duncan will never match what Shaq was able to accomplish at age 28 to 31.
The one difference between Shaq and Duncan? I think another poster mentioned it in this thread. Shaq has the "give me the f'n ball" at ude, and more importantly, Shaq has unbelievable confidence (sometimes you could say that it's overconfidence!). Seeing Duncan in this series against the Pistons, there were games where Duncan was visibly shaken by what Detroit had done to him. They get physical with him, and Duncan retreated into a s . , Duncan had trouble dealing with BEN WALLACE, a player that Shaq basically abused in the ECF, and even called him out in the press challenging him. And Shaq instilled confidence in a Miami team, that was practically bared to bones. Who instilled confidence in the Spurs? It wasn't really Duncan, but more Manu who did that for this team this season.
If at any point in his career, Duncan were to average 29.7 and 13, everyone on this message board would be going nuts, and comparing him to Jordan. And he hasn't (and probably will not). But lo and behold, Shaq HAS done that, on several occassions.
If I had to pick between one of the two RIGHT NOW, I would go with Duncan, but soley because of age.
Yeah, its sux that Duncan was hurt that year in the Playoffs. It woulda been a heck of a battle to see SA vs. LAL in 2000.
shaq had an insane rookie year
his avg in blocks and boards were really really good
he never got that high in either category again
anyway shaq will always be considered better to most people
thats why duncan has to win 2 more les
I could care less about "most people."
Most people dont know about basketball. Most people dont understand how beautiful good team defense is. Most people only wanna be entertained. They wanna see the loud mouth guy thats gonna get them excited. I could care less. Tim is better then Shaq. I will always believe that.
The stats and the les don't lie, Dre.
lol remember that time Shaq busted up the Rim in the Alamodome and they had to delay the game like 15-20 mins to put a whole new machine in ?
tim is better than shaq
but thats why "most people" will make up for that by saying shaq is the "most dominant"
even though you cant really measure dominance by anything but les
les are the same
stats dont mean when youre comparing two players that are the best on their team and with LA you might even say kobe was equal
shaq lost 2 finals
does that make him better?
Youre right!
Tim - 3 Rings, 3 Finals MVPs, 2 MVPs, age 29
Shaq - 3 Rings, 3 Finals MVPs, 1 MVP, age 33
Tim is better then Shaq.
That's 3 straight rings, and 3 straight Finals MVPs, Dre. A HUGE distinction. Only one other player in NBA history accomplished that.
ok well tim has done it with 3 totally different teams
maybe chris mihm can break that record
More Stats:
Tim's career numbers: 22.5ppg, 12.20rpg, 2.50bpg .507fg%, .692ft% (and for all you "choke" talkers, his career ft% in the playoffs is .702 not great, but up from his reg season numbers)
Shaq's career numbers: 26.7ppg, 12.00rpg, 2.50bpg, .579fg%, .531ft% (btw, his ft % in the playoffs is .515 less then his reg season numbers)
So basically, lookin at stats, and les, Tim has done just as much as Shaq, in less time. Tim got 3 rings and 3 finals MVP's by age 29. Shaq had only 1 ring and 1 finals MVP by age 29.
Lets come back to this argument in 5 years and still see who thinks Shaq is better then Timmy.
Again, Tim was hurt for one of those years, David Robinson for another. Not an excuse, just something to think about. And if Shaq never does it again and Timmy does, Timmy will be better because of his longevity!
Anyone tell me how many years Shaq and Tim have been all-NBA and all-stars? I bet Tim has more then Shaq in those catagories too.
tim has more 1st teams
shaq more allstars
How many All-stars do each have?
I really think you can't compare the two until their careers are over. Shaq's accomplishments are slightly ahead of Duncan's for now for simple fact that defending your championship 2 times over 3 years is pretty impressive. But no matter how you slice it, Duncan just needs one more than Shaq to be better.
As far as Shaq goes, I really think Miami has to save his minutes during the regular season for him to have a chance to be somewhat like his old dominant self.
shaq gets cred for losing two finals too
which is bull
You make all the right points but I believe you come to the wrong conclusions. If ppg and fg% are the stats you place the most weight on, then no one will argue with you that Shaq is the winner in those categories. You can also say that during his le runs, he was the most dominant force in the game. However, if you look at the most important stat - the ability to win and elevate the game of the players around you, then I think Tim wins hands down.
Looking at the facts, Tim currently has more individual achievements than Shaq at a younger age. He also has been able to will less talented teammates to a le having never won a le with a current all-star save for this season. Tim has won a le with 3 very different teams and that speaks volumes about his versatility.
Shaq, given his strength and athleticism should have achieved more than Tim at his age but imo, he just hasn't made the most of his abilities. Anyone with his size and strength should have at least have won a rebounding le once in his career but the effort just isn't there. That is evident from the numerous times he's reported to training camp horribly out of shape.
One problem with the way legacies are viewed in the NBA is that people remember stars who burn bright for short periods of time more than stars who are consistent for longer periods. Names like Barkley and Walton are still mentioned amongst other greats solely because of their fleeting but exceptional achivements.
In the end, the object of the game is to win and I believe legacies should be judged not on how dominant statistically a player was for a few years, but how instrumental they were in winning championships for their team over their entire careers. In this respect I have no doubt that Tim should far surpass Shaq barring any unforseen injuries.
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