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Shaq's time in the sun is almost over.
So, the age-old debate resurfaces once more. Duncan has earned his 3rd ring as well as his 3rd finals MVP nomination to even things up with Shaq.
Shaq won his les back-to-back-to-back in a flurry of dominance. Duncan's les haven't been successive but two were accomplished without another all-star.
Is Shaq clearly on the decline now? Will Duncan's youth prove to be the difference? A case could be made that Duncan has broken down somewhat as well these past years. Will a year of rest rejuvenate him? Can Shaq once again get close to his 2001 form?
Tim's supporting cast puts him in great shape for the future but Shaq has a budding superstar in Wade. Playing in the weaker eastern conference means they're always finals contenders.
Where do you stand on the Shaq v. Duncan legacy comparison? Who will prove to be the more accomplished player when all is said and done?
Shaq's time in the sun is almost over.
Not so sure about that. Watching games six and seven against Detroit, it appeared that Shaq might have knocked off Detroit had Wade not been limited by his rib injury. With Wade having another stellar playoffs, I don't think you can write Shaq and co. off so easily yet.
Here's something that speaks volumes about Duncan:
Here's a player who comes to a team, wins a championship, loses those 11 championship teammates over a period of 3 years, gets 11 new teammates, and wins another le. That's the power of Duncan for you.
Does he have one or two years left in him? Yes.
But Timmy has been playing BB since the olympics, got hurt, and recovered somewhat. Shaq got hurt late (badly) and did not recover. That is not a dig on Shaq. But his recovery time is going to take longer, and the abuse that his big body has taken adds up over time. I'm not calling the kettle black, I'm 6'6" & 300 lbs and a former rugby player. But I'm 28 and my joints pretty much know when the weather changes, so Shaq has to be in a world of hurt in just a few years.
Exactly. Games 6 and 7 of the ECF was the perfect time for Shaq to show his so called "leadership" skills and dominate the game. I don't care about his thigh contusion injury. Tim Duncan played on 2 sprained ankles, Manu has had about 10 contusions throughout the year. A true champion finds a way to fight through and win no matter what--look at Manu and Tim. He could have put his body on the line and gave it his all--because it was do or die.
Secondly, sure Wade was injured, but if I remember correctly Heat still had about 8-10 other players on their team. When Tim Duncan fouled out of Game 3 I believe against Denver in OT, what did he do? He gathered up his team-mates on the court and coralled them into winning the game. Where was that kind of leadership once Wade went out?
Thirdly, Games 6 and 7 was the perfect time for Shaq to prove that he can get it done without a "All star side-kick." Yet he couldn't....and he never will. For such a "Dominant" player--he sure has needed the help of a "dominant" sidekick throughout his career.
Tim Duncan on the other hand has proven he can get it done with or without a sidekick. Some can argue that he had Manu this year and Robinson earlier on--however, he has shown that he can get the job done without them by winning 3 championships with 3 completely different team-mates.
Please explain how that is correct??? 2003 he had D. Robinson, and 2005 he had Manu.
DRob wasn't a 2003 all-star.
Shaq hasn't won it without someone who was 1st team NBA (somebody check me on that).
I should have been more specific. The 2005 le was his only one with a current all-star. Robinson was not an all-star when Tim won in '99 and '03.
this chapter should been have closed in 2003 when TD dominated in game 6.
BUT, now that shaq is working for a new contract (i.e. getting/staying in shape) and has a new home in miami?
I expect a Shaq vs. TD showdown in the 2006 FINALS. Bring it on shaqfoo.
I've never been a Shaq fan. Never will. But there is no questioning his presence in this league. While I hate all the "Most Dominant Player" quotes that get thrown about regarding him, It is still hard to argue it.
TD's game is just so complete.....but what he misses is what Shaq has. Shaq has the "I want to be known as the best mofo to ever play the game"...and Duncan doesn't. And that's ok. Thats not who TD is. But IMO, without that at ude, he will prolly never be considered to be better than Oneal.
That being said, TD definetly has lots more time to keep on achieving les, and MVP's to physically accomplish more than Shaq could ever dream to.
Shaq is on his last run. 2 or 3 more years. TD is pratically in his prime as long as those ankles are ok, and no further injuries occur. I hope TD can do something amazing to surpass the silliness that is Shaq-Love.
Duncan finally put away the "Can he win one without David?" questions. Shaq has yet to answer if he can win one without Kobe. Or Phil Jackson for that matter.
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunhera...l/11990004.htm
Duncan's resume more impressive than Shaq's
By DAN LE BA
Miami Herald
MIAMI - Shaquille O'Neal is the most dominant basketball player of his lifetime. But, sorry, his resume is not as good as Tim Duncan's.
Let's not turn this into an indictment of O'Neal. The problem in the argument culture with making comparisons between apples and oranges is that you have to rip oranges in order to make apples taste better. And I'm not comfortable diminishing the accomplishments of O'Neal, the single most unstoppable force I've ever seen in basketball.
But here's your bottom line: Duncan has won as many championships as O'Neal, and at a younger age. And he's been the league's MVP twice as often.
Kind of hard to argue with that math, isn't it?
Duncan has more of the big trophies in a sport where an individual is more team-impactful on winning than in hockey, baseball or football. Both O'Neal, 33, and Duncan, 29, have been Finals MVP three times, but Duncan has never played with anyone as good as Kobe Bryant.
I'd rather build my team around Shaq, who makes any roster, including Atlanta's, immediately relevant and playoff impactful in a way Duncan does not. But that's not what we're arguing here. We're arguing who has had the more accomplished career to date. And, when Shaq was Duncan's age, he had just won his first championship.
Given that San Antonio's core is locked up through 2010, Duncan might have six championships when he reaches O'Neal's age.
Yes, I'd rather have Shaq. He can do things to Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace that Duncan can't because of his size. He's the world's most efficient shooter because of his strength, so he'll never put up a 5-for-17 stinker like Duncan.
But, again, that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about accomplishments so far, no matter how often rodeo clown Cote tries to distract you by appealing to your local allegiances with rhetorical tricks meant to support South Florida's lovable giant.
Duncan, like Shaq, has done winning with different sidekick teammates - going from David Robinson to Manu Ginobili, neither of whom are exactly Kobe, especially since Robinson was in decline by the time Duncan joined him. And while O'Neal scores more than Duncan, he has never rebounded or defended as well.
Let's remove all the packaging here. The colorful personality. The movies. The outsized fame. Let's show both resumes to an alien new to earth. Let's show that alien that one player has two MVPs and three championships by 29 and the other has one MVP and three championships by 33.
Who is the alien going to view as more accomplished before he blows a blue acidic mist in your melting face and yells at you for wasting his time with this nonsense?
Yep.
The only other player who's done that (i.e., won championships while the team completely changed around him) was Bill Russell.
And another thing, Duncan is going to age wayyyyyy better than Shaq has because Duncan has always committed himself to staying in shape. Duncan's got just as many nagging injuries as Shaq but he's never been slowed down nearly as badly as the Diesel. Why? Because Shaq is a big fat who has always been one sprained toe away from being a 300 pound paperweight. If Shaq had Duncan's ankles he would have missed most of the playoffs, I promise you that.
Kobe was 2nd team All-NBA in 2000 & 2001, and 1st team All-NBA in 2002, all le years. Tim Duncan had no other All-NBA players on his team during his championship years.
http://www.nba.com/history/awards_allnba.html
Who needs who?
Snaq is still big and fat so barrelling over people and dunking the ball should be no problem for him the next few years.
As days go by, only one thing is certain.... Shaq is getting older as is his body. Tim too is getting older, but he's hitting his peak, while Shaq has been going downhill since 2002-2003. With or without Wade, with or without Kobe, with or without Karl and Gary, he wasn't able to get his fourth le. All his talk about "everyone" wanting the Suns and Heat in the Finals was hilarious. Too bad it isn't a popularity contest, Mr. Oneal! I'd love to see Tim vs. Shaq next playoffs, but it doesn't look like Shaq will do his part to make it to the Finals. I'm more afraid of seeing the Pistons again next year.
Like average 7.5 rebounds per game in a Conference Finals series!He can do things to Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace that Duncan can't because of his size.
Didn't Wallace effectively guard him one-on-one last finals?Yes, I'd rather have Shaq. He can do things to Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace that Duncan can't because of his size. He's the world's most efficient shooter because of his strength, so he'll never put up a 5-for-17 stinker like Duncan.
Tim's never looked the part like Ben Wallace does, but any of the Spurs opponents could probably tell you exactly how strong Tim is.
and as long as the pistons stay in power, shaq's chances of getting to the finals are pretty slim.
I wouldn't necessarily say that Timmy is in his top form. I remember seeing a pic of him on some forum that some sneaky photographer snapped... and well..lets say he could use some time in the weight room. But then again he didn't need a lot of muscle to snatch the trophy from Detroit this year!
At this point in time, Duncan is better than Shaq. I truly believe that. Shaq's abilities have diminished considerably since 2000 when he was in his prime.
Since 2000? Don't tell me that the 3 peat was all Kobe's work, because we've seen what Kobe can do by himself....
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