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Nazr's deal is around $5M. Getting Marshall for 3 years and $18M might work for both sides.
Now that I would do in a heart beat, plus Rasho would be good in the East.
Nazr's deal is around $5M. Getting Marshall for 3 years and $18M might work for both sides.
The Spurs faced one of the two other toughest frontcourts in the NBA in the Finals (Heat being the 3rd) and Nazr was next to worthless, whereas a finesse guy like Horry was quite useful.
Something to think about.
The two teams that gave the spurs the most trouble were the ones that were the most physical. Therefore, I don't see how becoming a more finesse team would help them improve against their two biggest threats.
See last post.
Against Seattle Nazr was very useful and also against Denver. Both of those teams have very big front courts.
Maybe Nazr's trouble had more to do with the pressure of the finals rather than any lack of game.
Seattle and Denver's frontlines are nothing compared to Detroit's. I would expect Nazr to feast on those. But his showing against Detroit was rather disappointing.
yeah but you have to pick dont you? (unless you lose horry) otherwise we'd have too many guys at one spot even if you moved marshall to a backup center. and if something happens to rasho, we'd be going small very fast.
with marshall
rasho/duncan/marshall
duncan/horry/scola/marshall
with nazr
nazr/duncan/rasho
duncan/horry/scola
without horry:
rasho/duncan/marshall
duncan/scola/marshall
I just don't think the Raptors are that smart. This is a team that picked Charlie Villanueva with the 7th overall pick this season and Rafeal Araujo 8th overall last season. Pete Bab 's brother doesn't know what he's doing.
That's why I think if you offer them Nazr, they might give you back Marshall and a solid young player and a pick.
I agree about his performance against Detroit, it was below what he had done before. But Seattle's front like is freakin huge and dirty as all can be. Detroit's front line is very athletic and maybe Nazr is a tad too slow, especially since he doesn't fully understand pop's system.
Just some initial thoughts: A convincing arguement...without a doubt the best combo of addressing needs and working in the real world of any of the big man scenarios people have brought up so far. (Trade Rasho for Tmac, etc.) But there are a lot of questions this brings up for me. I think the Spurs will wait untill close to the trade deadline to make a decision on Nazr vs Rasho vis a vis who they hang on to.
It's too early to know if Nazr will improve defensively and offensively, or what the real cost will be to resign him (other than it will cost more than what we're paying Rasho).
The spacing issue is the biggest reason to do this deal to me, but it's not as serious a need if Horry re-ups. It would still be a long-term concern though.
I think it comes down to offensive rebounds vs. spacing. I don't think the +/- arguement works for me. The +/- numbers when Horry is in are high primarily because he is ing clutch and is a smart player, not because of the spacing he provides. Plus, spacing doesn't help if you can't knock down shots. It's easier to hit meaningless shots in toronto midseason than it is playing for a contending team in crunchtime.
I also wonder how badly the Spurs would miss the offensive rebounds Mohammed provided. timvp, I think you said in another thread that you watched every playoff game at least three times. My question to you is, without Mohammed's offensive rebounding and garbage buckets, would the Spurs have won? Offensive rebounding was a weakness that the Rose trade addressed.
Then there's the whole Marshall in Utah experiment. Wasn't he supposed to help Malone the same way he would help Duncan? That didn't seem to go anywhere...and I think I remember that Malone was calling him soft.
intriguing proposal, though...
that tells me they are picking up players that others perceive as mediocre. Rasho fits that bill perfectly.
I think this is a good argument for getting an extension done. If the Spurs come with a strong offer to Nazr now they might be able to lock him in at a decent rate.
I think the Spurs liked Mohammed's size more than his offensive rebounding. In the Spurs' defensive philosophy, offensive rebounds aren't something the coaching staff looks at. They want players to get back on defense and not get burned by transition buckets. I think if you asked the Spurs' coaching staff, they'd tell you that Mohammed's offensive rebounding is a bonus.
He played well in that role. He shot over 50% both years in Utah. Of course by then, the Utah empire had begun to crumble.Then there's the whole Marshall in Utah experiment. Wasn't he supposed to help Malone the same way he would help Duncan?
timvp, that was a very well thought-out proposal. I couldn't have laid it out better. I would do that deal. I also believe that Marshall would be a good replacement player for Robert Horry, the player I immediately thought of when pondering that possibility recently.
I'd do it, depending on the size of Marshall's contract of course.
Good point. If the Spurs aren't going to use him as trade bait, locking him up now is the way to go.
7.6pts 9.0rebs 1.40blks in (27 mins) DEN
8.3pts 6.3rebs .67blks in (20 mins) SEA
4.9pts 6.0rebs .86blks in (22 mins) DET
ben wallace averaged 40mins 10.1pts 7.3rebs 3.0blks
...and if you can extend him for something less than Dampier money then you have two tradeable commodities at center.
True. I wonder if Toronto got the two guys confused and thought they were hiring Pete?That guy makes Chris Mullin and Isiah Thomas look like Jerry West.
Who got the bulk of the minutes up front other than TD? Pop's made some crazy moves from time to time but if Nazr was working against the Pistons he would've left him in.
Nazr's FG% was 43% in the Finals, almost a full 10% lower than his playoff average.
Actually, JWest isn't looking too hot nowadays. I guess it's harder to get players to want to go to Memphis than LA. Go figure.True. I wonder if Toronto got the two guys confused and thought they were hiring Pete?
i didnt see rasho out there. you said nazr was next to worthless, i disagree. i think he added alot to this team down the stretch. horry got the mins at power forward because duncan moved to center. (you know that) shorter rotation.
It was more than the shorter rotation. Nazr's offensive efficiency went down sharply against the Pistons. Too much pump faking and lack of any semblance of range on his shot. In addition the butterhands didn't help.
His opponent, Ben Wallace, shot 57% for the series.
Bonus or not, it seems pretty important to have somebody good on the offensive glass to give the offense additional chances, especially when we downshift from motion to four down. If shooters are cold, the additional opportunities and occasional putback an offensive rebounder can provide can be the difference in a game or series.
I think part of the equation here is the intangible of the NBA marketplace. I don't perceive the distance between Nazr and Rasho to be that significant. There are some things that Nazr does well that Rasho doesn't; there are some things that Rasho does well that Nazr doesn't. The Spurs won with Rasho last season and they won with Nazr. But there is, I'm sure, a perception in some corners that Nazr is much, much better than Rasho. That may be a perception held in some NBA front offices.
From a practical standpoint, In the long haul, Rasho's contract may end up being more palatable than whatever extension Nazr demands (unless he decides he's willing to do a Manu and take less-than-market to stay in a good spot). At this point, given contracts and perceptions, Nazr is decidedly the more marketable commodity and could arguably bring more in trade.
I just wonder about the wisdom of trading a young big (even one on the precipice of a huge next contract) for an older wing-type player. I think the idea works in a general sense, and I guess with this particular Big 3 being as young as they are, age in the ranks is not as big a concern as it was in, say, 2000 or 2001. Still, I don't think the Spurs are likely to carry 2 huge contracts for centers for very long, and it may be that even if they can peddle Rasho, they won't re-up with Nazr for any kind of crazy, Dampier-esque sums. I'd rather have one of those two than neither. But, if you're going to lose Nazr at the end of next season, it makes sense to me to get something you desire, a guy who will help your team, and look for another big body to play in the paint (like Scola). Marshall would fit that bill.
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