I believe that a Nazr Mohammed for Donyell Marshall trade is something the Spurs should consider this summer. Right off the bat, it sounds like the Spurs are getting the short end of the stick, but consider the following:
1) Marshall was the player the Spurs wanted last year at the trading deadline. They tried for weeks to pry him away from Toronto. It was only after that trade fell apart that they went and got Mohammed.
2) Pop is high on Marshall. Last season during a Pop show, they asked him about Marshall. He said that he usually doesn't talk about other team's players, but he continued and said that Marshall is a player the Spurs have liked for a long time and is a very underrated player in the league.
3) The Spurs three best players all operate in the paint. Duncan needs room to post up. Parker needs room to drive. Manu is at his deadliest when he's causing havoc in the paint. While Mohammed was good in the playoffs, he isn't a player that will provide spacing. That is a big reason why when Horry is on the floor, the Spurs played so much better. With the spacing Horry's shooting provides, everything just flowed so much smoother.
4) Marshall can really shoot. He tied the NBA record for three-pointers in a game last year when he hit 12 in a single contest. He shot over 41.6% from deep for the year -- his second consecutive season shooting over 40%. On two pointers, last season he shot 48%.
5) Mohammed is going to cost a lot to re-sign. I don't think Spurs fan understand how much he'll be to lockup. If Erick Dampier's contract is north of $70M, Mohammed's price isn't going to be too far behind when it becomes obvious that Mohammed is the better player.
Now when you compare the two players, it's close to a wash. The only huge difference is age. Mohammed is 28 while Marshall is 32. But Marshall has three or four good years left, where as Mohammed will be tough to re-sign after this season. Everything else is similar.
-- Mohammed is one inch taller, but Marshall has an enormous wingspan.
-- Mohammed is the better offensive rebounder, while Marshall is the better defensive rebounder.
-- They're both decent shot blockers.
-- Marshall is a much better passer and gets more steals, while Mohammed is thicker and plays better post defense.
I think this is a trade the Spurs have to look at. It was proven this season that the Spurs work best with a perimeter shooting bigman next to Duncan. If you start Marshall and Duncan up front and have Horry, Scola and Nesterovic off the bench, that seems like a potent lineup to me. You spread the court and give more room for everyone to operate.
The only things you worry about are Marshall's age and the loss of inside muscle. You can get over the age issue when you realize that the Spurs need to win in the next three or four seasons and can't plan to have Mohammed on the roster anyways if a team throws Dampier money at him. The loss of inside muscle on defense is troublesome, but if you look at the Spurs' compe ion it's not that huge of a deal. Marshall is a good matchup for Rasheed Wallace. Both are long and neither are overly big. Mohammed proved to be worthless trying to guard Amare Stoudemire, so you aren't losing much there. Marshall is a good matchup for Dirk Nowitzki and all the other active power forwards in the league.
To further my point that the Spurs work better with a perimeter shooting big in the lineup, you can look at Mohammed's +/- for the season. In the regular season, the Spurs were -6.5 points when Nazr was in the game. In the playoffs, the Spurs were even with Nazr in the game. That means that he didn't really make a difference either way considering he played a lot of his times with starters around him, that isn't saying too much. Horry, on the other hand, was a +10.4 in the regular season and a +8.7 in the playoffs. Obviously his ability to spread the defense helped the Spurs. Marshall can do the same thing.
In summary, I believe that a Nazr Mohammed for Donyell Marshall trade would help the Spurs on the court in the coming years and also help them in the checkbook. Since Marshall is a free-agent, you can have him sign to a reasonable contract and make the deal. Since the Raptors need a center, they may be inclined to throw in a player or a pick to e it up. That's just more icing on the cake. The Spurs get the player they wanted orginally last season and save Holt some money in the long run.
Win win.
P.S.
Now if the Raptors will accept a sign-and-trade involving Rasho, you do that of course. But I'm guessing that the Raptors aren't run well enough to figure out that Rasho is a good talent buried on a deep team. That's why you have to throw Nazr at them.
P.P.S.
Please do not turn this thread into a thread detailing how Duncan doesn't want to play center. If you want to speak on that subject, check out this thread.
Last edited by timvp; 07-05-2005 at 07:25 PM.
Nazr seems so much bigger, I would hate to give away so much size for another Robert Horry type. Also Tim playing D on opposing centers would wear him down, regardless of whether he wants to do it or not.
Seems risky, but maybe that's because I admittedly don't know enough about Donyell's game.
Only if they are keeping Rasho, otherwise, it doesn't suit the Spurs.
Very good points. I completely agree with the spacing issue. The Spurs need a Center who can step back and hit a 15 foot jumper.
not a bad idea
I disagree, I think a center who can get garbage points is better on offense. Nazr would be perfect if he could finish a little better. ON defense almost anyone is better than Nazr at this point, but that could be because he doesn't know the system yet.
If Nazr improves his catching ability, and doesn't hesitate so much, adds a couple of deep post moves to his game, I'd rather have him by far.
thinking about this more
if horry resigns I am not sure I do this
if horry leaves I do this
spurs have a guy like scola coming in
does not scola do alot of what marshall does except for the three
Ya but players just dont improve their hands. Either you can catch the rock or not.
you dont trade rasho or nazr for him... that wouldnt make sense... unless you lose horry. (otherwise a good idea)
I don't even think it's his hands, I think it's Nazr's offensive awareness.
He isn't used to Manu and Tony's crazy passes in mid air I guess, and he doesn't have the most offensive awareness, except for after the shot has been put up. He's good at getting hustle rebounds on offense.
I don't think there's a problem with his hands, I think he only had trouble catching the ball in pressure situations. All the other times his hands seemed just fine. With experience and time in the system he'll be able to handle pressure better.
and also... we didnt see rasho handle james or fortson in the seattle series. but nazr scared them a little. what i mean is, he's as close as we have to a rough inside presence.
You make a very convincing argument, especially about the spacing issue. I agree with a lot of what you've said but what would we do when teams get physical with Tim down low? The spacing only really works well when Tim is being doubled, leaving someone open and clearing the passing lanes.
Most teams double because if they don't, Tim is usually automatic one-on-one. However the teams which give Tim single coverage, like Detroit, will still pose problems. If Duncan hadn't come out of his funk late in game 7, we could be asking ourselves some very serious questions about the team's future. If Duncan is not threatening down low against a less talented but physical player, Marshall doesn't help much.
Granted, Nazr doesn't really help the above scenario much either but he was very useful against the really thuggish teams like Denver and Seattle. I don't know if we get by those teams easily with Marshall. I like the idea but we'd still need a big body as an enforcer that could give us spot minutes. Luckily, those aren't too hard to find.
Granted, it's not the easiest trade to stomach. You trade your starting center off of your championship team for a slightly smaller and older player, but I think the rewards are there. If you consider everything and how this will give Rasho opportunities off the bench in situations and it will give Scola more time to shine, I think you do it. Watching the Spurs operate with good spacing offensively is a thing to behold. No matter what Nazr does, he's not going to be a player to create that spacing.
Bottomline is the Spurs' three best players are inside players. You can't afford for either of your two remaining role players to be inside players as well without having causing problems.
I agree, if anything the spurs need to add another brawler like Mr. Mean Larry Smith.
That's a good point. Nazr is the more physical player when compared to Donyell. But you don't lose much defensively and Marshall is actually a better defensive rebounder. You just lose some bulk and some toughness.
In the above plan, Rasho will provide the bulk and Scola the toughness.
Is this only if you don't re-sign Horry? I like the idea, but if Horry's around, it seems redundant.
Edit...just re-read and saw that Horry would be coming off the bench. So, I'll go with the maybe a bit redundant, angle. I like it, though.
I can guarantee this trade won't happen.
In addition.
It's a DISCUSSION forum. 99% of what people say here won't happen.
Too risky don't you think? Upside is probably there but we need bigs to protect Duncan. However, if Scola is Manu at 6'10 and then I like a lot if Donyell is a better defensive rebounder like you say. Tough to give up the boards Nazr brings to the table though, not to mention the toughness.
Didn't the Spurs try to trade Malik for Donyell Marshall during the season and the Raptors wanted Rasho instead, but the Spurs balked?
I wonder if both parties are still interested.
I'd hate to see the Spurs give up some muscle up front, considering that Horry, Nesterovic and Marshall are all rather slight for bigs. timvp does hit the nail on the head about the NBA becoming more and more a game of finesse, speed and agility at virtually every spot now. Nazr was rather ineffective against a frontcourt that seemed suited to his game in the Finals.
I agree that Nazr is going to command money in the Dampier range. That's not going to be attractive to the Spurs, not at all. While I would select Nazr over Rasho, I have a feeling the cost differential would make him unattractive long term.
How much would Marshall cost? He has a solid 2 to 3 more years in this league, I feel.
Scola is 6'8.if Scola is Manu at 6'10
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
