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Case in point. Have fun with this thread and calling me a liberal nut. Later.
Osama's fatwa:
On that basis, and in compliance with Allah's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm
still think they don't hate ALL AMERICANS?
Case in point. Have fun with this thread and calling me a liberal nut. Later.
Manny I think you're in the general area but a little off base here.
AQ wants to have a world war with the civilized, Christian-dominated West. They don't want peace. They want to kill anyone who isn't a Muslim, and to see the world fall under a "one nation, one god, one religion" model - theirs.
America, as leader of the free world, leader of the democracized world, leader of the perceived "Christian/Zionist alliance", is the focal point of that hate.
That's a bad argument Manny.
Israel has nothing to do with Al Qaeda's "beef." Osama and Co. are just smart enough to realize it is the major point of contention for many in the Middle East, and they prey on that anger/frustration (well, try to anyway).
And BTW, to me today is more proof why what's going on in Iraq is good. The bad guys are going to Iraq to fight ARMED Americans, instead of preying on our subways and civilians here.
the world is not a safer place because of the Iraq war. thats the point. end of story.
Any conservatives, Like Rove, who think that liberals rejoice at terrorism are sick bas s too right? Where is your anger towards Rove?
I'm a liberal and hate terrorists, support our troops, fly the colors, served my country and am damn proud to be an American.
I hate the fact that some conservatives think they are the only God fearing, patriotic Americans.
That just bites my ass!
When did Karl Rove say that liberals "rejoice" at terrorism?
He said, after 9-11, certain liberals wanted to seek indictments, understand the terrorists, and offer counseling. I don't recall him saying that liberals rejoice at terrorism.
On the other hand, there are some -- probably liberals -- who hate President Bush so much they'd like to see us fail in the war on terrorism in order to make him look bad. Failing, of course, to recognize that our failing in Iraq means the terrorists win -- and, therefore, cons utes a form of "rejoicing" terrorism.
sorry, but the terrorists scored major points when Iraq was invaded, not the other way aroundFailing, of course, to recognize that our failing in Iraq means the terrorists win
All of you are nuts. Now stop ing up the country.
how many points did the terrorists score when we kicked took over afghanistan?
But that's nowhere near the same as saying they hate freedom.
Again missing the boat. Hope you can swim well. By the time you realize what's up, their will be no one left to throw you a life preserver.
P.S. by your definition, these guys aren't terrorists.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/genera...?oneclick=true
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Four Muslims caught up in the recent anti-terror raids tell Ian Munro their side of the story.
He holds a sugar sachet over his coffee cup and pauses, leaning forward to fix his dark eyes on his listener. "If I put sugar in this cup, what happens?" I tell him it dissolves, and he resumes: "Well, we don't want to melt here, in this country. We are following Allah, which is one God. And Allah has sent one prophet, one man. This man called Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him. This man is to be followed step by step... We are keeping our religion, wherever we go. We try our best not to harm anyone, but they are harming us. They are filling our hearts with hate. Is it a welcome? I call it an oppression."
We have met, he and I and his three Middle Eastern colleagues, amid the Turkish restaurants and multicultural jumble of coffee shops that line Brunswick's Sydney Road. In the past two weeks, all four of them have been raided by ASIO and Australian Federal Police, accompanied by Victoria Police. There have been no arrests. The little that has been revealed about raids in Melbourne and Sydney suggests that after almost 12 months of investigation, police have decided that their best course is to let their suspects know they are under observation. Unable to sustain formal charges, police said the raids were designed to deter suspects "from taking the next step" towards terrorist action. "It's rattling the cages at this stage," a senior federal source said.
Advertisement
AdvertisementThe raids sparked debate this week about the role of ASIO - newly empowered to detain suspects without public disclosure. Former prime minister Malcolm Fraser declared that ASIO had been turned into a secret police, a charge the organisation rejects because it does not have its own arrest powers. The controversy dominated the airwaves for several days. Was this fear-mongering or the legitimate sacrifice of liberty for security? For the men who found the police and the spooks at their doors, there is little confusion. The raids are seen as confirmation of the word of Allah.
"We know according to our religion that our way is not a honeymoon. It's not easy. Trouble must come," says the most outspoken, who also appears to be the group's spiritual and intellectual leader.
"We are not afraid, because Allah has already said" - he slips briefly into Arabic before translating himself - "'do not be scared of them'. To be raided is just the beginning. What's come so far, so good. We don't know exactly, but worse is coming... for any Muslim. We are not scared. We know them already. The more you face a hard time, the more you practise your religion."
These are men for whom no meaningful law has been passed in centuries. Democracy holds no appeal, and is in fact a breach of their beliefs. They argue that the continued American occupation of Iraq is less concerned with ensuring stability and security than it is a cover to Westernise the country by stealth.
They are here, they say, because in their Muslim countries of origin it is even more difficult to pursue their brand of Islam than it is in the inner suburbs of Melbourne. Compared with some Muslim countries "it is better. Doesn't mean they let us do everything." Until Sharia law, as applied by the Taliban during its rule in Afghanistan, is adopted somewhere in the world, Melbourne is as good as it gets for them.
"Let us practise our religion properly, not according to you - it has to be according to the Koran," says the group's spokesman. "In our religion, they don't have democracy. When we say democracy, it means we are making a partner with Allah in making laws. Allah does not need a partner. That's why we don't believe in democracy.
"One of Allah's names is 'the lawmaker'. From him we take the law. In our religion we got plenty (of law)...
"Our religion fills the time and fills the space. Our religion does not need any other say. ...Seeking judgement from other than Allah, you become a disbeliever. That's why we don't believe in international law."
Repeatedly, they say they do not understand why ASIO has descended on them. They are only trying to practise their religion. But for them, religion embraces fighting for beliefs and fighting the enemies of Allah.
The group's spokesman is still angered at the imposition in his home country - which he declines to identify - of what he calls "man-made law" over the 1400-year-old Sharia law.
He concedes that ASIO may be interested in his support for jihad overseas.
"We are trying to establish Sharia in our country, but it's not going to be easy."
Enduring ASIO scrutiny is just one more hardship that erases their sins, their spokesman says. "We are trying to practise (Islam) according to the way of the prophet. They say 'you are fundamentalists, extremists' ...We are following the prophet and this is how it has to be. We will be ready to die for it, whether they like it or not. When we came to this country, nobody say, 'we will give you equal nationality as an Australian citizen (but) you have to change your religion'.
Last edited by smackdaddy11; 07-07-2005 at 05:10 PM.
What the is your definition of freedom? Theirs is beating women and
killing those that wont conform to their order. If you think you are so damn
safe why don't you go over to Iraq and drive a truck for a little while, I'm
sure they would just love you to pieces, very small pieces......
those al-Qaida mother er ass es are ing lame....assholes....
Manny was saying that muslims don't grow up hating americans like fox news watching dumbasses think.....
they grow up learning muslim ideals and accepting muslim agendas, etc
none of which are "Freedom is bad" or "americans are evil"
now its true that americans are in their way...which is why they with us..
its not that hard to understand
it IS propaganda and u guys swallow it up like you swallowed "the last throes" bull ...
I think racism and hatred is taught and that is why educating and attempting to understand if not tolerate one another is the key to ending terrorism.
Kumba-ya, you say? Maybe but until the radical factions of all religions (and I do believe they exist in all religions) live by the true words of their religions which I tend to believe all say something about truth, honor, respect, love, etc., then terrorism and racism will never cease to exist but instead will the reason we'll all cease to exist.
Should we fight terrorism? No doubt about it and I'm for going after the enemy. Every government uses propaganda when they are trying to get their message across. But I honestly and truly believe that while Bush is a good man at heart his determination to get Saddam won over his better judgement.
And, I don't fault or blame him because I do think he believes what he is doing is right and I myself have done things that I thought were right at the time that have come back to bite me in the ass. It happens.
the hardcore terrorist type are the ones we're talking about.. in between their "women are worthless" and "how to wipe your ass with your hand" lectures.. i am sure they throw in a "all americans are bad."
My prayers are with everyone in London. I also feel it is only a matter of time before these type things start happening in the US. Our bus and subway systems would be an easy target. ing Gutless Cowards have to take it out on the innocent people.
May they all die the worst death possible!
This is the first time I've had to express my feelings of this.
And I still remember 911,so I know how those people over there are feeling.
It is a shame...this chaos, this fear atmosphere we´re living in around the world.
God be with everyone.
I'm not scared.
Damn right.
My favorite quote..
Must be some badass tea.What's next...men in tights ?"It's amazing how people have stuck together. I've seen total strangers hugging each other and people coming out into the street with free cups of tea," he said.
"We can't let the terrorists defeat us. We've got to show them they will never win."
The Qur'an doesn't deny anything about Christianity.
It merely takes the stance that the Jewish and Christian interpretations of "God" are incomplete, with the resolution bore out in the pages of the Qur'an.
Slight difference.
You haven't been paying attention in Sunday school... the whole premise behind the Holy Trinity is that three are one.The Quran rejects the concept of Trinity God the Father, God the son, God the Holy Spirit - as strongly as it rejects the concept of Jesus as the son of God. This is because GOD IS ONE. Three cannot be one.
The Muslim faith doesn't reject the concept of Jesus anymore than Judism does. The positive assertion that Jesus is God is never made by the faith, and therefor cannot be rejected.
Some Trinity Doctorine:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm
1. You need to brush up on 'The Trinity'
2.Spare me. I majored in history at A&M, took classes on terrorism, Islam, and Russian history/language, and start taking Farsi language classes in the fall up here in Dallas. I know a thing or two about the religion, as well as the thoughts and ideas of Osama and those like him, from the beginning of Islam to today.in other words you might as well deny it.
As part of one of of the Islam classes we broke the suras down verse by verse. The beginning of the Qur'an basically states (once you break it down into layman's terms) that the Jews and Christians got it partially right, but the complete revelations weren't revealed to the world until Mohammed did his thing.
I don't need to deny anything. You need to find get yourself a freakin' clue. And I don't mean quote some contrarian website that you copied the words of some other schmuck word for word from.
I mean read the Qur'an for yourself. Read the Haddith for yourself. And do a little thinking along the way, not just mindless page flipping.
Have a nice day.
Well, at least most of the Muslim nations condemned this attack. What was suprising was that I heard on the news that HAMAS condemned this attack too. Sad day for London, I got some relatives living there and my Mom just finished talking with them on the phone. Best wishes to the peeps there.
Last edited by E20; 07-08-2005 at 01:32 AM.
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