Lakers: How will Lakers fans feel if Duncan gets 5?

[whitemamba]

Spur fans already know that Duncan > Kobe. They think maybe if LeBron loses it this year, the Heat disband and they can hope that LeBron doesn't win more than 1 or 2 more rings, thus opening the debate for who had the better career.

Fify

[Cry Havoc]

It isn't a different platform though. Nobody looks at the top 10 all time and says, "oh let's make a group for perimeter guys and another one post guys". They are all put together, and Kobe isn't "lumped in the same group" as Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Russell. He is a notch below. Those guys are top 5 GOATs, Kobe is barely in the top 10 around where Bird and Hakeem are (however you want to shuffle them around), and below Shaq, and Duncan imo.

If Duncan wins this year, he will be top 5 imo. His 5 would be worth more than Kobe's 5 easily. Duncan and Shaq's 4 rings are worth more than Kobe's 5 as it is. Rings for annuel all stars don't automatically let players leapfrog others, otherwise Pippen would be the 3rd all time GOAT. It only counts when you're the best player on your team, or at the very least not playing with the best player in the NBA, which Pippen did for 5 of his rings and Kobe did at LEAST for his first two rings, if not the 3rd too (though you could argue Duncan surpassed Shaq by then, Kobe didn't yet).

I know Kobe/Laker fans hate to hear that, but that logic is applied to everyone, not just Kobe. He isn't being singled out. You could penalize Magic for one ring too (his first), but his solid 4 as the best guy still keeps him above just about everyone. Kareem's penalized some too (which is why he isn't the GOAT and Jordan is), but he was so great and won so many MVPs before that, that keeps him above Magic and others imo.

LeBron won't be a threat to Kobe's spot on the GOAT list unless he gets at least 3 rings. Which he's fully capable of of course. But if he only has 2? You can't put him above Kobe even though he was the better player. You still have to win the t les.

I have Bird easily in my top five. Probably higher than Magic. Dude averaged 23, 10, and 6.3 assists for his career on 50% shooting. If you were to judge his averages prior to his back giving out, his resume is even more impressive. There's a reason it used to be Jordan vs. Bird.

[Cry Havoc]

Fify

Should I amend that to "Laker fans who count defense as a skill"? Would that be better?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Laker fans already know that Duncan > Kobe. They think maybe if LeBron loses it this year, the Heat disband and they can hope that LeBron doesn't win more than 1 or 2 more rings, thus opening the debate for who had the better career.

I'll donate my left testicle to science if you can go the entire series w/o complaining about the refs or Stern.

[Cry Havoc]

I'll donate my left testicle to science if you can go the entire series w/o complaining about the refs or Stern.

You might be the saltiest person on the entire forum towards me. Pretty funny tbh

[gnsf0946]

I'll donate my left testicle to science if you can go the entire series w/o complaining about the refs or Stern.

you can donate both, it's not like you'll need them tbh

[cheguevara]

you can donate both, it's not like you'll need them tbh

LOL

[Cry Havoc]

you can donate both, it's not like you'll need them tbh

[DeadlyDynasty]

You might be the saltiest person on the entire forum towards me. Pretty funny tbh

Which one of us cries about the officials and uses his g/f as a shield from koriwhat?

[whitemamba]

I'll donate my left testicle to science if you can go the entire series w/o complaining about the refs or Stern.

[Cry Havoc]

Which one of us cries about the officials and uses his g/f as a shield from koriwhat?

Dear god, that was like 2 years ago. I thought you Lakers fans only lived in the past regarding basketball.

[Kidd K]

I have Bird easily in my top five. Probably higher than Magic. Dude averaged 23, 10, and 6.3 assists for his career on 50% shooting. If you were to judge his averages prior to his back giving out, his resume is even more impressive. There's a reason it used to be Jordan vs. Bird.

Bird is #8 for me right now. My top 10 is:

Michael Jordan
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul-Jabaar
Magic Johnson
Wilt Chamberlain
Shaquille O'Neal
Tim Duncan
Larry Bird
Kobe Bryant
Hakeem Olajuwon


And Shaq/Duncan can be flip flopped imo. If Duncan wins again this year, Duncan is cemented above Shaq imo, and I'd honestly have to put him above Wilt too, and I'd start to argue he could be above Magic as well.

I agree that Bird has put up great stats, but so have others and they're not that high. Look at Karl Malone, Moses Malone, our DRob, Patrick Ewing, and other greats. Everyone in the top 10 were amazing, great players. It gets to a point where it's just "take your pick" talent-wise, which is why you have to bring rings into the discussion (in addition to teammates and eras of course).

[jag]

in terms of GOAT list talk...Jordan, Lebron, Kobe and perhaps Magic are all lumped under the same group, all perimeter guys.

They may be "lumped" into some imaginary group, but only re ed lakerfans think Kobe should be mentioned on any GOAT list.

[Will Hunting]

lol Kidd K
lol ty opinions that ramble forever
lol gay final fantasy avatar

[DMC]

You have to avoid the "10 greatest" talk. It's normally bull from people who don't understand the game and who just go from lists they saw elsewhere then add their favorite players higher than they otherwise should be. None of these current players are being viewed in the light of retrospect that the retired guys are, so you're impressed with what you see, but with those guys from those days, it's their entire body of work.

Besides, there's no real "best player". It's about matchups and situations, and some guys flourish in one situation while other guys flourish in another. It's why most professionals and coaches won't even entertain the discussion.

[Koolaid_Man]

Why do laker fans hate LBJ so much? Just curious.

because the ain't earned ...not a gotdam thing...Lebron don't be dropping s off at the rim like MJ and Kobe did...sure he has nice dunks in the open court but I'm not impressed...MJ earned his stripes...he went through the Bad Boy Pistons one of the toughest defenses we've ever seen..then he went though THE toughest defense on wing players which was the 92 Knicks team...MJ earned it...to a lesser degree s earned names and careers off Kobe...tough 1 on 1 defenders that Kobe faced like Pippen, Rodman, MJ, Rueben Patterson, Doug Christie, and the legendary Bruce Bowen...to name just a few...nowadays there ain't no one out there that will put their foot in Lebron's ass...go back to the ASG when Kobe defended him 94 ft and blocked his shot twice straight up...a prime Kobe would have killed that ....Lebron basically plays no defense, unless it's the passing lanes or run down from behind blocks on smaller guards....man back in the day Gary Payton would have been in his ass from the jump...he wouldn't have let that walk the ball up the court...

I don't give a what you Ho's say..give me a prime Larry Bird over prime Lebron any day of the week..real talk

[Koolaid_Man]

They may be "lumped" into some imaginary group, but only re ed lakerfans think Kobe should be mentioned on any GOAT list.

get off Kobe's already.... done your franchise up tbh

[StrengthAndHonor]

They may be "lumped" into some imaginary group, but only re ed lakerfans think Kobe should be mentioned on any GOAT list.

Kobe's part of it whether we like it or not. He may be the least qualified but he's part of the conversation, if I'm allowed to be neutral.

[Killakobe81]

Duncan will be deserving but hopefully it puts to rest all this 4 as "alpha" foolish talk ...5 is 5 even if 2 of Timmy' s come with Parker winning Finals MVP ... doesnt matter he is a INTEGRAL part of ALL 5 same as Achilles. It will be a great debate regardless I felt Mamba had moved ahead definitively ...but if Timmy rangs I can see them flip-flopping again (I had Duncan ahead back in 2007 ... moved Achilles SLIGHTLYahead in 2009 ...and further so in 2010 and since)

But LOL those that say rings are just team accomplishments ...they matter when discussing legacy. Duncan knows it too. A chance to tie Magic/Bean pull ahead of Shaq and be one down from Mj of course that matters ...maybe most importantly he would be .... 2-0 vs. James and up 5-1 ...

[Pelicans78]

This thread sucks. Not even sure why I started it.

[Koolaid_Man]

Duncan will be deserving but hopefully it puts to rest all this 4 as "alpha" foolish talk ...5 is 5 even if 2 of Timmy' s come with Parker winning Finals MVP ... doesnt matter he is a INTEGRAL part of ALL 5 same as Achilles. It will be a great debate regardless I felt Mamba had moved ahead definitively ...but if Timmy rangs I can see them flip-flopping again (I had Duncan ahead back in 2007 ... moved Achilles SLIGHTLYahead in 2009 ...and further so in 2010 and since)

But LOL those that say rings are just team accomplishments ...they matter when discussing legacy. Duncan knows it too. A chance to tie Magic/Bean pull ahead of Shaq and be one down from Mj of course that matters ...maybe most importantly he would be .... 2-0 vs. James and up 5-1 ...

I'm going with:

Kobe 5
TOSB 5 * (face it the 99 and the 12 le no matter if justified or not is asterisk especially the 99 le)

[Koolaid_Man]

Kobe didn't win any les in locked out seasons..where less games where played to earn the le...that is an asterisk by definition not because Kool wants it to be...it's just like PER ratings and all those other advanced stats and that mid likes to bring up....the is just plain and simple an asterisk

[Leetonidas]

Lakerfan doesn't care, it's Kobe nut hugging gots that desperately wish to see Tim fail to tie their idol

[Leetonidas]

Kobe didn't win any les in locked out seasons..where less games where played to earn the le...that is an asterisk by definition not because Kool wants it to be...it's just like PER ratings and all those other advanced stats and that mid likes to bring up....the is just plain and simple an asterisk

he won a le after playing in a rigged series. huge * imo

[StrengthAndHonor]

because the ain't earned ...not a gotdam thing...Lebron don't be dropping s off at the rim like MJ and Kobe did...sure he has nice dunks in the open court but I'm not impressed...MJ earned his stripes...he went through the Bad Boy Pistons one of the toughest defenses we've ever seen..then he went though THE toughest defense on wing players which was the 92 Knicks team...MJ earned it...to a lesser degree s earned names and careers off Kobe...tough 1 on 1 defenders that Kobe faced like Pippen, Rodman, MJ, Rueben Patterson, Doug Christie, and the legendary Bruce Bowen...to name just a few...nowadays there ain't no one out there that will put their foot in Lebron's ass...go back to the ASG when Kobe defended him 94 ft and blocked his shot twice straight up...a prime Kobe would have killed that ....Lebron basically plays no defense, unless it's the passing lanes or run down from behind blocks on smaller guards....man back in the day Gary Payton would have been in his ass from the jump...he wouldn't have let that walk the ball up the court...

I don't give a what you Ho's say..give me a prime Larry Bird over prime Lebron any day of the week..real talk

Lebron earned it too. Boston Celtics, Detroit Pistons and SAS are the best defensive teams of our era.