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i put any version of tim duncan against anyone, the difference between duncan and the other bigs of the league, he rarely jumps on pumpfakes
that season should've put him in Olajuwon territory, or at least close, but the overall body of work puts him past the Dream imho.
too bad Pop had to take him out when Duncan could've ended up in Top 5 territory.
" you, it's the system. My way or the highway."
i put any version of tim duncan against anyone, the difference between duncan and the other bigs of the league, he rarely jumps on pumpfakes
dont forget olajuwon had some solid role players who played above their weight, those championship years he had guys like otis thorpe, carl herrera and robert horry, 3 serviceable big man who did the dirty work, you add up the contribution and it all adds up alot....
Dream got lucky with the 94 and 95' les while Jordan was playing in MLB but leading a ty franchise to the top of the league was enough an achievement by itself, not to say Dream is the all-time leader in blocks as well as the #9 place on all-time scoring list.
As if it was Jordan that was preventing Dream from winning every other year anyway. Those were the only 2 years Dream made the finals. You can't blame Jordan for his shortcomings in the western conference playoffs
Because 2>4.
Rings count unless a spurs player comes out on top.
Olajuwon was a beast, no shame there. Though personally due to longevity and career achievements I put Duncan ahead of him but it's close.
Dream was also a pre-madonna in his early years too. Not only that but after he lost to the Celtics, during the next couple of years his level of production was in "cruise control". Sure he put up 22-24 pts and 10-12 rebs during that 7 yr gap (not to mention at least 2 block and 2 steals), but did that translate to wins? No.
Come on playa. Dream also made the finals in 86.
Only cus Magic wanted no part of Larry that year
Real talk, how does a team with two top 5 players of all time not make the Finals every single year
Huh? Lakers?
yeah. forgot that one. my main point was that the Jordan excuse is bull for Dream. he never went up against him in the playoffs
Duncan - 4
Hakeem - 2
Duncan - 3 FMVPs
Hakeem - 2 FMVPs
Duncan - 4 - 5 in the Finals
Hakeem - 2 - 3 in the Finals
Hakeem - 8 first round losses, missed playoffs 3x
Duncan - 3 first round losses, never missed playoffs
Who had the better teams? Coach? System?
Duncan's 500 rebounds short of passing Hakeem all-time, shouldn't be a problem next season
Duncan is also 3200 points away from catching Hakeem in points, if he plays 2 more seasons without injuries and averages 17 ppg, he will pass Hakeem in that area as well.
The only area Hakeem is untouchable in is in blocks, but Duncan had the better career and while Duncan led his team to the Finals and took the reigning champ to 7 games, Hakeem at the same age averaged 10 and 6 while losing 13 out of his last 15 games that season.
Prime for prime, Hakeem's better, but Duncan's career is far surperior and he'll surpass Hakeem at least in rebounds, if not in points as well.
How do you justify losing 8 times in the first round and missing the playoffs 3 times?(I only counted the Houston Days, up to Hakeem being 37).
Hakeem played in Houston, a big market while Timmy has played his whole career in a small market in San Antonio. Duncan's best teammate was a washed up David Robinson with Parker being a close second. Hakeem had Barkley(from early 30s to late 30s),Drexler(he was decent with Houston),Pippen(only 33 when he got there),Horry(prime),Kenny Smith(he put up 17.8 and 7.1 one season), he even had a young Steve Francis and Mobley in 2000, but he was washed up by then (only 36-37 years old, Duncan at 36-37 would have done something with that roster).
Both had multiple HOF teammates and role players, both led their teams to les, but Duncan beats Hakeem in longetivity and career accomplishments with Hakeem being the better scorer and shot-blocker. Only pussies and assholes use injuries as an excuse, tbh. Fact is, my friend, Hakeem only won 2 and despite having some other stacked rosters, he either got injured or he just failed to make noise in the playoffs.
Oh brother. The championship Spurs teams were not that stacked, I mean sure.. they had a legendary coach, and the system benefited the team, but the system revolved around Tim Duncan, like the system in Houston revolved around Dream, but only one of those players could consistently lead their team to 50 win seasons, and 14 straight playoff births.
The role players on the Rockets those two years, were not much worse than the Spurs role players.
These players, though they play similar positions are about as dominant as they come, were VERY different to compare side-by-side.
Hakeem, in a game of one on one, will smoke Duncan time and again. Hakeem was more agile, more athletic, had better moves. But the one thing Duncan has though, is how to maximize his skills through the system, teammates and positioning. Not that Hakeem was bad in any of those, Duncan was simply better. This is apparent by the length of the considered "primes" of either players. Hakeem was putting up monster stats for nearly a decade before his les, but people do not consider them prime because his team was not successful, but they were most definitely his prime, but the Rockets were not successful because of:
a) The league suspended the entire Rockets team so that the Lakers can repeat and Magic can keep having his parties
b) Hakeem simply wasn't that easy to build around. He required quick and volume 3 point shooting around him because he took up such a huge part of the low post.
The difference in peaks of the respective players were also exaggerated due to pace and era.
Let's say Hakeem's absolute peak were those two championship seasons, and Duncan's were 99 to 04.
Looking at Duncan, in:
1999, he had a 1,084 points and 121 assists. In other words, Duncan was directly responsible for 28.6% of the Spurs 4,640 points for that season. He also had 26% of the rebounds, 36% of the blks and 10.7% of the steals. Keep in mind that he was playing with a end of prime Robinson at this stage of his career.
2000 - 27.7% of the offense, 26% rebounds, 30% of blks, 10.7% of steals.
2001 - 29.3%, 27.6%, 33.3%, 12.3%
2002 - 34.1%, 30%,37.8%, 9.8%
2003 - 32%, 29.8%, 44.8%, 8.7%
2004 - 26.2%, 23.2%, 34.4%, 9.4% (Duncan missed 13 games this year, the numbers would have been 31%,28%,41%,11% if Duncan played in the full 82)
Now let's compare this to Hakeem's two years:
1994 - 33.3%, 27%,61% (!!!), 18%
1995- 29.6%, 23.3%, 47%, 18% (Hakeem missed 12 games this year, would have been 34.7,27.3,55.1,21.6 if he played a full 82).
Just looking at the numbers, Duncan and Hakeem were responsible for almost the same % of offense (Duncan came up slightly on top), and Duncan was actually responsible for slightly more rebounds (I was surprised by this). While Hakeem was representative of MUCH more of the blocks, it is more because of the teammates rather than any other reason (noticed Duncan's numbers coinciding with Robinson's decline, by 2003, his % in blocks pretty much matches those of Hakeem in 95).
So what do these numbers tell us? First, they play in totally different pace, in which the Spurs grind it down offense in the late 90s/early 00s undoubtedly negatively affected Duncan's total numbers. Second, the two are pretty much identical in terms of their offensive responsibilities, especially after the decline of Robinson. Third, and as listed earlier, Hakeem had a much longer prime than people give him credit for, he simply couldn't capitalize because he didn't have the right team around him. Sure the late 80s Rockets teams were horrible, but Duncan's early 00s teams, when you really look at them, weren't that great, and yet Duncan made them contenders year after year, winning a le in the process.
hakeem the most overrated clown to ever play the game
those 2 championship years, they make it look like he played like that his whole career, dream shaking everyone from start to finish = bull
The Spurs "system" in 03 was just 4-down. It was Duncan carrying a team that had no business being in the finals. Stephen Jackson wasn't much at that point. Parkers balls shriveled in the Finals. Manu didn't have a big role. Robinson was literally on his last legs. Malik Rose, Kevin Willis, Bruce Bowen, etc.
Take a look at the roster/stats of the '03 Spurs
Wait, hold on. Are you saying Prime Parker and Prime Ginobli, Prime Bowen, were all worse than a washed up Robinson?
Barkley was in rapid Decline.
Drexler was with Houston for about 2 seasons, and on the downside of Hakeem's prime. Pippen, was a cancer and destroyed that team. Hakeem had Sampson for about 2 seasons before he broke down?
So that team was worse than Hakeem's worst teams?
Was worse than any Hakeem team that made the finals, that's for sure. And it's probably in the same territory as Hakeem's worst teams overall, yes
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