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Looks like Brazil has come down with a severe case of white guilt lately. Probably hanging around Chumpdumper or Fuzzy too much.
Honestly, I have no idea how it became such a big issue on this forum, since I've only really looked at it since the end of last season. But it's pretty weird that is so popular.
I agree with Creepn that black quarterbacks get stereotyped in college often, and that leads to them playing in gimmicky systems than don't properly develop their talents. , there are people who believe that Leftwich was a running quarterback. Actually, that's a bigger problem than just this issue, as college systems fail to develop a lot of talent, and they inflate lesser talents like Graham Harrell and Tim Tebow because they take advantage of the general dilution of physical defensive talent. So a lot of quarterbacks grow up in one-read systems and find it too hard to adjust once they have to go through their progressions.
The problem is that since gimmicks work in college, college coaches has no incentive not to use them. Brown earned himself a big payday by precisely not trying to develop Vince Young. The only way I can see to fix things is to have a development league as an alternative to college in which elite high-school players can get paid to play in pro-style systems and without the talent inflation. After three or four years, they could be drafted as they are now. College football would still be the same, but obviously without its upper-tier of talent. Players who go there would be students first, or at least should be as their chances of actually being drafted would now be pretty low. That's not unlike the college baseball system, except the minor-league teams wouldn't be under the direct control of big-league teams.
Looks like Brazil has come down with a severe case of white guilt lately. Probably hanging around Chumpdumper or Fuzzy too much.
Well the superbowl isn't played on paper, it's played on a field in February, where "dual threat" black QBs struggle.
And a dual threat Black QB winning a SB is like a PG oriented team winning an NBA championship. It'll never happen/happen once in a blue moon in a completely fluke scenario.
i was not trying to be a smart ass really. I just have a hard time to believe it is just bad luck that they are struggling to win it all and like you I don't believe in the racist they are too dumb for that.
tbh its the same for white scrambling quarterbacks. jake locker finds himself in trouble relying too much on his legs. steve young was a trainwreck early in his career, but he was able to mature into a great passer. in general its the run-first quarterbacks that struggle. a lot of black qb's tend to be athletically gifted and develop into run-first guys.
Maybe "they're too dumb" might be racist (even though empirical evidence says it's true), it's not racist at all to say they buckle under an uncanny amount of pressure every time they get close because the black community puts A LOT more pressure on black QBs than the white community does white QBs. All RG3 needed to do was string together a few good games before America's entire black community hopped on his back and expected him to lead black America to wealth and prosperity because he demonstrated some ability to play QB.
I was about making reference on your famous pg oriented team theory. In that case I fully understand the logic behind you made great points to back it up and it works on paper and in reality. In the case of dual threats QBs that makes less sense: a dual threat should be harder to defend than a classic pocket passer.
Nah, there definitely seems like there's something after all this time, although, really we should only be talking about the last 15 years or so, since that's about the time where it became acceptable to have a black quarterback as your starter. I think we'll have pretty strong evidence of there actually being something wrong with black quarterbacks if none of the current ones find a way to win. There would be pretty much no excuse why none of Wilson, Kaepernick, RGIII, Smith, Manuel or Pryor win eventually.
as usual Creepn playing the blame game.
it's the coaches fault for the black QB's being garbage!!!
son it must suck to have such a ridiculous mentality like that. it's always someone else's fault.
A mixed breed could potentially win, but a pure breed stands no chance--and yes, it IS an intelligence thing.
How convenient is that, though? If he succeeds, "He persevered through so much to win!", but if/when he fails then "The white man didn't train him properly"
I thought he meant for college. College coaches don't properly develop their quarterbacks because they don't have to have complete QBs to beat even the best college defenses (as Manziel showed). That puts them behind the curve in the NFL, which has a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately at ude that doesn't allow coaches the time to help the quarterbacks unlearn bad habits. Seems like both views coexist just fine and actually work together to answer Brazil's question pretty nicely.
If you're at a major D-1 football school, you bet your ass the pressure is on to win "now" too as well. That's the business of the game. Can't get the job done? Hit the in' bricks. Some exceptions are made for programs that have been sanctioned and destroyed, but's that's not the rule.
Those 3 years of Jacory Harris were like watching an AIDS pt deteriorate before your very eyes.
exactly son.How convenient is that, though? If he succeeds, "He persevered through so much to win!", but if/when he fails then "The white man didn't train him properly
with me being a mixed breed myself I can call bull on either side and the majority of the black community in this generation are de able. absolutely ing de able. the ignorant and high sense of en lement at udes that most of them have coming up nowadays is going to do nothing but get worse. it truly is a shame especially when you think about where we are in America and what the generations before them went through only for most of them to still run around ing and moaning that they don't have anything.
quit blaming others for your failures. no one owes you .
Exactly. I said that in my first post in this thread. Monkeyball works in college (very well), so college coaches aren't going to risk their jobs by going away from it. So players like Vince Young can "get the job done" even with Mack Brown doing nothing to actually develop his pro game and then can't cut it once defensive talent isn't so inflated.
I don't buy the
I usually try to stay away from "the I play the racism card for fun but there is a bit of truth on it" game. I am not a believer of race or skin superiority but I don't want to engage endless conversation on it, just reacted randomly on the so called white dominance and posted this thread because it is a topic for this board but also for nfl fans in general and wanted to understand better the fuzz.
For the rest believe me I'm not familiar with Fuzzy work and I read chump only in the spurs forum so no influence here. Don't spend a lot of time on the club just enough to know that avante is a got and sbm is a prison guard or something.
i think henne gives us a better chance than gabbust for the upset. maybe like that houston game last year. but im pretty sure we cover the spread.
Also given RG3 has been a total abortion this year without the read option to open things up for him, it's pretty re ed to fault Shanahan for using gimmicks when it seems like those gimmicks are the only way RG3 is productive.
SAVE THE BLACK QUARTERBACK
http://deadspin.com/5974789/save-the-black-quarterback
1
It's been 25 years since Doug Williams won a Super Bowl with the Washington Redskins, the first and only time a black quarterback has won a Super Bowl. This is not a good thing. We should have had another one by now. In a perfect world something like this doesn't matter, but every year that we go without a second black QB winning it all reinforces the idea in racists that you cannot win with a black QB at the helm. Because I promise you, there are still plenty of people out there who believe just that. The question is: Why hasn't it happened again? Is it just bad luck? Or are there more concrete reasons why?
Drew Magary writes for Deadspin and Gawker. He's also a correspondent for GQ. Follow him on Twitter Drewmagary and email him at [email protected].
There are eight quarterbacks left in the NFL playoffs. Six of them are traditional pocket passers, all white guys. The other two—Colin Kaepernick and Russell Wilson—are African-American QBs who operate in offenses that include read option plays (Kaepernick more than Wilson). Another playoff QB who ran the read option—Robert Griffin III—was just dismissed from the playoffs after having his knee explode.
I want to believe that someone like Robert Griffin III is so talented that he can revolutionize the way football is played, just as Michael Vick promised to do. I want to believe this because watching teams run the pistol option is awesome, much more fun than watching Joe Flacco stand back there like a penis. There have been a zillion new rules implemented by Roger Goodell to cripple NFL defenses, and for a moment this season I thought that perhaps those rule changes would make it easier for teams to have long-term success in a system where the quarterback runs more often than the average pocket passer. But last weekend pretty much proved that wrong.
History has shown, time and again, that you don't win Super Bowls with this kind of hybrid offense. RGIII's long-term potential was just potentially compromised because his coaches had him running the football—including option plays!—when he barely had a leg to stand on. Why the did they do that? Isn't that breathtakingly stupid? Colts quarterback Andrew Luck ran a 4.6 40 at the NFL combine, just .2 seconds slower than Griffin. But Luck attempted roughly half the number of runs (62) that RG3 did (120) all season long. In fact, Luck's 62 rushing attempts this season are nearly identical to Aaron Rodgers's rushing attempts over the past five seasons (56, 58, 64, 60, 54). If the Packers let Rodgers run 120 times a season, Mike McCarthy would be murdered. The Colts ran a couple of read option plays for Luck this season, but not nearly as often as the Redskins did. Why were Luck and Rodgers given better protection than Griffin?
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I think (WARNING: ignorance ahead) that black quarterbacks are still getting hosed when it comes to being groomed as pocket passers. I think coaches look at white quarterbacks and think to themselves, "Whoa hey, we can't have him run." Luck and Aaron Rodgers are both capable of running the ball effectively, but their coaches happily sacrifice that part of their game because they know that, ultimately, their QBs will need to win games mostly by throwing the ball. But coaches look at black QBs and think to themselves, "Wow, look at him run! I'd be a fool not to use that part of his game!" I don't think this is overt racism at work. I think this is a case of typecasting. Why did Mike Shanahan run an option play with Griffin barely able to walk? Because he couldn't help himself, that's why. He thinks of RGIII as a multi-purpose threat and can't see him any other way.
If Griffin's destiny is to become a pure pocket passer, then his training should have begun immediately. There shouldn't have been this period of, "Oh, well let's have him run NOW while he learns to pass because he's awesome at running." That kills his progress, not mention his ACL, MCL, PCL, LCL, XCL, ZCL, and NRDCL.
I guarantee: When RGIII returns to the field, the Redskins still won't be able to help themselves. They'll have him do a couple of read options because it looks great, and what's the harm in doing it just a few times? Then RGIII will succeed doing it, and it'll be, "Well, what's the harm in doing it just a bit more?" And then we're right back where we started. That's the cycle. Russell Wilson has already shown he can be brilliant as a pure passer, but he ran the ball 94 times this season, and averaged more attempts the last five weeks of the season than the first five. He's running more, and there's no guarantee that he'll be able to withstand it, no matter what the new rules are.
It's not just the responsibility of a coach to limit how many times a QB runs, of course. Running the ball is often a decision made by the quarterback himself. And RGIII has already proven that he's fond of taking off from the pocket when it suits him. But it's a coach's job to say to him, "Don't do that a lot," and I don't think the Skins were complaining much when Griffin was winning games by ripping off 76-yarders. It's hard to say no to that. Impossible, really. The problem is that, when a team and QB win games that way, the more they become convinced that they can ALWAYS win games that way. And how many times have you heard announcers talk about the "added dimension of the running game," as if a quarterback who can run and throw is clearly more dangerous than a quarterback who can just throw brilliantly? That's the fallacy. All that running is a grand distraction, preventing a mobile quarterback from becoming a BETTER quarterback.
At some point, there will be a team that decides to start implementing run counts for its quarterbacks. They won't go by feel, or the flow of the game. They will say to their head coach, "This player will have a maximum of 20 designed runs over the season and 40 scrambles. No more than that." It won't be a perfect method, but at least it will establish a clear goal that both coaches and QBs will have to try to stick to. The framework right now is so loose that teams end up running their mobile QBs far more often than they should because they have no willpower. They fall pray to the idea that the game is evolving when it really isn't.
And if Kaepernick and Wilson get bounced from these playoffs sometime in the next two weeks, we'll again be treated to a Super Bowl featuring two upright white dudes battling it out. Since Williams's Super Bowl victory, there have been a grand total of two black quarterbacks to make the Super Bowl: Donovan McNabb and Steve McNair. That's it. To call it bad luck is wrong. There's a reason for it. Black quarterbacks have been treated as mobile QBs (and have often treated themselves as mobile QBs) for so long now that the idea that black QBs are SUPPOSED to play that role has become more and more ironclad. And the longer it goes on, the longer the black QB Super Bowl drought will continue, with racists holding it up as proof that black quarterbacks are selfish, unintelligent and undisciplined. I don't want that. I don't want to live in a world where Pro Football Talk commenters feel validated.
Well that's a straight answer
this.I don't buy the
anyone who has been around a college program (or even most legit high school ones for that matter) know that the star black athletes have it MADE. I've heard stories of (not going to name names, but they were star players in high school and college) riding around in the coaches luxury cars, getting paid a few grand in cash every week, and all sorts of other perks. even in some of the most racist, backwoods towns in the South if you're a star black athlete you will be treated better by the coaching staff and community than the best looking white women would be treated in town.
none of it is some "evil plan" to temporarily have success like Creepn is trying to cry about. the coaches see talent and they worship that talent. it's not the coaches fault that most of the time the player doesn't have enough sense to poke piss out of a boot and wouldn't be able to pass his classes without their help.
You act like it can't be both of their faults. I'm not saying black quarterbacks are victims. Only a couple of them have truly pushed passed the crap and forced themselves to be considered pocket-passers. Warren Moon is rare in that regard. It's Pryor's fault he didn't go to a school with a quarterback guru as well as OSU's fault for not developing the quarterbacks they do get. If there had been a junior-NFL like I was talking about earlier in the thread, then Pryor would have faced almost-pro defenses from the start and would have either sunk or swam as a pocket-passer from jump street.I don't buy the
My two cents
I define monkey ball as basically sandlot football.
Athletic freaks like Vince Young, Colin K, RG3, Randall Cunningham and more had great college careers and great rookie seasons using their natural ability after a play breaks down and going monkey ball.
But one good year of monkey ball is all they get because after that, defensive coordinators break down tape........or in RG's case, injury.
The good QBs learn systems, learn how to read defenses, and learn to throw the ball away when nothing is there.
And an equally big problem is lumping dual-threat black quarterbacks with run-first quarterbacks. There's a pretty big difference between Pryor and Troy Smith. There's no way they should have been in the same system.
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