if he's top 10 it's mainly because what you said above, his sociopathic ability to keep his name in the press at all times. No doubt he is a sociopath, jerking off after raping a chick is usually behavior you find in inmates.
MJ was a total asshole but wasn't a sociopath imo, everything didn't have to be about him nor do I think he gave a about how he is perceived or create a nickname for himself.
In terms of impact to winning I can't put him in the top 10, in fact he's cost his team les with his chucking. But if we're talking about top 10 of controversial/media icons of basketball, then he belongs on that list.
I disagree with Dad Killer not being a sociopath, tbh..
Both Jordan and Kobe are pieces of , 2 of the most de able athletes to ever play a sport, tbh..the only difference is that Jordan is likeable in every day life and understands how to interact/grew up with friends, whereas all reports describe Kobe as a loner that never learned how to make friends, tbh..great at manipulating/charming media and anything involving basketball, but never developed social skills with people in his actual life..
Getting more shots up doesn't make you the Alpha. When was Kobe in charge of the team on the floor instead of being just a veteran voice? 6 for 24 isn't an alpha number. Just because Pau wasn't vocal doesn't mean he wasn't the catalyst for getting the Lakers to 3 consecutive finals.
I agree with Kobe being a media manipulator.
Dude knows what and how to say everything in every situation, whether deflecting or taking credit. He knows where the cameras are at all times, and when they are on him (the under bite anyone?)
He knows when its time to call Stephen A after struggling a few games for that one on one interview to let everyone know he's been playing hurt but would never use that as an excuse, and how exhausted he is carrying the load by answering every question slow and under his breath.
And because he plays in LA, the media eats it up.
I haven't said this in a while....stop posting, it hurts my brain. While gasoline was great, no laker fan on the planet, you know the guys who bleed purple and gold would put pau ahead of Kobe. That's why I barely talk about the spurs....I don't watch their games.
i was gonna post this. i mean who in their right mind would think gasol is an alhpa, for cryin out loud, this was the player kobe and jackson pushed to come out out of his s over and over and over again, even gasol admitted he's a beta
So, your idea of being an Alpha would be someone shooting worse on the floor? You do understand that Kobe's TS% was higher than Gasol in game 7, right? Unless you believe, making FT's at a crucial time is not part of the game, where Gasol folded under pressure only making 53% of his attempts.
Pau Gasol averaged more PPG than Paul Pierce (who led Boston in PPG).
Pau played more minutes per game than Kobe.
Pau averaged about 12 rebounds a game
Pau had fewer turnovers (Kobe led with almost 4 turnovers a game)
Pau averaged 3.7 assists per game in the Finals. Kobe was only .2 higher.
Pau shot 48%. Kobe was at 40.05, just .05 better than Nate Robinson.
Pau had 90 FGA. Kobe had 163.
After Kobe, you have Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and Allen, all within 10 shot attempts from each other (88 - 98FGA). That's a balanced scoring attack
The Lakers didn't win due to Kobe taking almost 2x as many shots as the next highest FGA on the team. They won because the next highest FGA shot 48%, averaged almost 3 blocks a game and pulled down 12 rebounds. Leading in blocks and rebounds for the series for both teams, totally decimating KG's output.
You don't beat a well balanced offense and a top 5 defense by volume shooting. You beat it by having an agile, fast and savvy big like Pau Gasol under the rim making smart plays and giving the team second looks after Kobe clanks another one.
You slurpers can parade Kobe's personality around like a checkered flag all day, it doesn't change the fact that Pau took a huge on him in effectiveness.
MVPau was the alpha and those numbers prove it.
How many times do I have to explain TS%. It is a percentage favouring perimeter players. It's like saying Marbury is a better passer than Vlade Divac because Marbury had more assists.
I would say Pau's talents won the 09 and 10 championship, and the Lakers strength was that dominating frontline.
On the other hand, I'd say the real leader of that team was Derek Fisher and KFC.
wade>>kobe u know it fellas....
Jordan
Russel
Bird
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Kobe
LeBron
Top 11 as of now. LeBron will probably knock Kobe out at some point most likely. You could argue Kobe ahead of Hakeem though. The Rapist is most likely a top 10 player in history, but definitely on the lower end.
And yet Pau wasn't voted MVP of the finals.....
June 19, 2010 | By: Zachariah Blott
Congratulations to Los Angeles on winning consecutive les, but we need to clear up a little matter called the Finals MVP Award. As much as Kobe Bryant seems like an obvious selection because he's the team's most lauded player and he averaged 28.6 points per, he clearly was not the Lakers' best player in the 2010 Finals. That player was Pau Gasol.
The most straight-forward way of looking at this debate is that the series was decided by defense and rebounding. It was a low-scoring, poorly shot affair all around, and the Lakers won the rebounding battle by a landslide in their four wins. Gasol was by far their most impressive rebounder in the series, leading everyone in both the amount he collected and his skill in doing so in the trenches, picking up the tough ones in traffic (not the long caroms that guards usually end up with). On top of that, his strong interior defense set the tone for the Lakers, who rode their defense to the championship; Bryant spent the series playing centerfield far off of Rajon Rondo, certainly not a stopper or defensive game-changer in any capacity.
Statistically, Gasol's input in his Lakers' le defense was significantly more important than that of Bryant. Obviously Kobe's 29 points per look better than Gasol's 19, but it was simply the result of shooting an insane amount of shots at a low percentage. Although the Lakers shot a pitiful 41% over their seven games with Boston, Bryant actually made things worse by shooting 40% (66-163). Not only that, but in a series full of close fourth-quarter battles, Bryant shot an abysmal 31% (11-36) in the games' final periods. Gasol connected on a team-high 48% from the field, hitting 43 of 90 attempts. His efficiency from the field was instrumental in stressing a tight Boston defense.
From a distribution/running-the-O standpoint, Gasol far trumped Kobe in the Finals. The big Spaniard lead the entire Laker squad with a phenomenal 26-13 (2.0) assist-turnover rate. He did a great job passing out of double teams, passing out of the low-post, high-post, perimeter, etc. The only player to accrue more assists on LA was the primary ball handler, Bryant, who handed out one more, 27. Unfortunately for the team, he also turned the ball over 27 times for a terrible 1.0 ratio. It could have been much worse if his teammates didn't hustle to retain possession on numerous Bryant passes that were tipped away by the Celtics into random spaces each game. Offensively, there is no question that Gasol was far more important to the overall success and effectiveness of the Lakers' attack.
Considering the winner of all seven games was also the team that lead each contest in rebounds, this part of their games cannot be overlooked. Gasol was the top rebounder by quite a substantial margin for the series, snagging 11.6 boards per, including an incredible 5.0 offensive each night. With the rest of the Lakers shooting such a low percentage from the field, Gasol's offensive rebounds and the subsequent second-chance points alone were regularly the difference between winning and losing. He surpassed his rebound average in four of the seven games, so there were no single-game totals that pushed his average so high.
Bryant chipped in with an impressive 8.0 rebounds per, including 1.7 offensive, but it should be pointed out he met or exceeded that average only twice. A few outliers skewed his average above a true indication of what he contributed in this category. Not only that, most of Gasol's boards were grabbed in the middle of hard-fought scrums in the paint, whereas Bryant's were usually of the long-bounce-right-to-him variety.
Defensively, Gasol's man-to-man defense is alright, but his ability to energetically block and redirect shots was unparalleled, blocking 18 for the series (2.6 per) and persuading multiple potential shots to not be taken. A big man's defensive presence is always more valuable than a wing's because they have to help clean up the mess opposing guards make when they drive into the paint. That being said, Bryant's defense wasn't responsible for much in the series. He guarded Rajon Rondo, who can't shoot, by hanging out in the lane; Bryant rarely had to hustle or be responsible for containing any tough plays. Rondo still ended up averaging 14 points and 8 assists for the series. Bryant did get credit for 15 steals over the seven games, 8 of which came in two home contests when any deflections caused by his teammates' hustle were given to him if LA's stats keepers determined he gained possession in the end. NBA stats keepers, who work for individual clubs, are allowed a lot of leeway in determining who to give credit for steals, which is why it's one of the most home-oriented statistics for star players.
Pau Gasol was clearly the most impressive player in the 2010 Finals and deserved to win the Bill Russell MVP Award. This is not a slight to Bryant, it's just that Gasol is that good. He is the only other player in the best-big-in-the-league discussion with Dwight Howard. Duncan's slowing speed has taken away a lot of his defense, and Chris Bosh is neither a defender, passer, winner, or much more than a pedestrian shooter inside. On the other hand, the best perimeter player in the league is an argument involving Chris Paul, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Kevin Durant, maybe Jason Kidd, and Bryant.
Gasol is doing some special things right now that have brought the Lakers out of their three-year .500-ball funk and into a great stretch of Finals runs that includes two les. It's time he got his due.
Last edited by DMC; 10-18-2013 at 04:32 PM.
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