TexasAggie2005, you are bringing a logical argument into what is obviously an emotional discussion. Surely you can see that Rasho sucks because he doesn't hang around the basket and dunk the ball after 4-5 upfakes.
Is he? I hadn't heard that. Seems like an awful lot... am very curious if he'd take less a la Barry, Bowen, etc, to stay with the Spurs...
This is the big thing to me. Rasho's great on Pop's defense, but he's had 2 years to get acclimated and we saw how little playing time he got after (we assume) his ankle was mostly healed. Nazr potentially has room to improve. If we can get him for a reasonable price, then like someone said, it's an easy decision.
Rasho's salary wouldn't be wasted if we traded Nazr. Rasho would most likely be starting then. I'd like to see how Nazr fairs this year and make a decision based off of that. Couldn't we see about signing Nazr to an extension and then deside what do with either player AFTER that? I'm sure we could still trade Nazr or Rasho even after Nazr re-signs.
I don't think Nazr wants what we're allowed to offer him as an extension this summer. I don't know the details, but there are limits on contract extensions. If we wait until next summer, you deal with him asking for a lot more. He'll also be coming off a contract year, when players tend to play better and want more money.
Besides, I'd rather not keep both for another year. Pick a center and go with him, deal the other one and pick up young talent (even if it means dumping Rasho). In Oberto we have the extra size we wanted last year when we traded for Nazr. We don't need this many quality bigs, there's not enough PT.
If Nazr donīt sign a extension soon, Nazr isnīt going to be the starter
It makes no sense to trade Nazr seeing as how we folded with Rasho down low and succeeded with Nazr down low.
Those are the facts..
.4
Now this is Rasho's fault? WTF? Where are your limits?
Well, we didn't play Shaq and Malone with Nazr either, but we could go round and round with what ifs.
i think Rasho would fit better against these men than Nazr(though a better in offensive rbds).
but notice Rasho played through the 4th qtr in the playoffs last yr. And Nazr sat this yr...why?
BTW, i like them both. i think Tim wants Nazr to stay, saw that Tim whispering on Nazr during the game7 celebration, it mean something. Maybe he wants him to hang around a little longer and see what he can do.
Considering we were the hottest team in the league with Rasho down low I begin to wonder which team you were watching last season.
Those are the facts.
I'd don't mind having both Rasho's contract and a newly signed Nazr for the short term, even if it means one will be traded shortly after. I'm sure if we signed Nazr to a big contract, we could still trade him to another team later on. He would be worth more salary-wise then. It's a little risky, but it solves the dilema of losing talent for nothing.
With Rasho starting the first half of the season, the spurs were on pace to shatter the all time points differential mark. They played their best ball with Rasho starting last year. Rasho can do everything that Nazr does, and most things he does better.
Except, take it up strong, offensive rebound........
I'd wait and see if Nazr improves any after a training camp and more time. Was Rasho a defensive beast when he first got here?
take it up strong, rebounds...
isn't it why Oberto joined us.
if nazr is going to cost more than rasho and 3 times oberto but do not bring more than them ....
Didn't Oberto play well against NBA centers during the Olympics? I recall him blocking Tim Duncan's shot and giving the whole USA team trouble throughout that game. He'll be fine on the Spurs. The only reason he wasn't in the NBA sooner is because he was under contract in Europe and didn't want to pay his buyout. He waited to become a free agent. Makes sense to me. We're all seeing what Scola's going through. Oberto just waited for his turn.
What about trading BOTH Nazr and Rasho for first round picks, and bringing in BOTH Scola and Oberto! Does it make sense money-wise, and can it happen at all?
I believe you have to somewhat match salaries in trades, and the picks not only do not have any cash value but 1st rounders must come with guaranteed contracts when they join the team. So we would still have cap issues, because you have to bring in players that match salary-wise (unless they have expiring contracts, which is basically just giving a player away for nothing).
That's also putting a lot of eggs in one Argentinian basket.
Thanks for the information!I believe you have to somewhat match salaries in trades, and the picks not only do not have any cash value but 1st rounders must come with guaranteed contracts when they join the team. So we would still have cap issues, because you have to bring in players that match salary-wise (unless they have expiring contracts, which is basically just giving a player away for nothing).
That's also putting a lot of eggs in one Argentinian basket.
I was wondering about the feasibility of bring in Scola (probably the Spurs will one day regret trading away his draft rights), while the avoiding the luxury tax thing. As Duncan, Parker and Ginobili have signed long-term contracts and getting salary rise every year, the above task seems getting more difficult.
What about trading Rasho and Nazr (likely separately) to teams with salary cap space, and getting 1st or 2nd round picks?
Well, my understanding of the situation is that the one who is in trouble with cap space will be the Spurs, regardless of whether the team they are trading the player to is under the cap or not. If the Spurs trade a player with a guaranteed contract, the other team has to send "X" number of players back that match his guaranteed salary for that year +/- 10% or so (I don't know the exact %tage). So the Spurs are still stuck with the same number under or over the cap, since draft picks have no monetary value when dealing with the salary cap.
Teams can trade players that have expiring contracts, (like they did Danny Ferry a few years back). Their salary counts in the year they were traded (they are often used as incentives in deals to teams that are over the cap), and the team they are traded to always has the option to not resign them. That way they are removed from the salary cap of that team, but of course the player becomes unemployed & a free agent that anyone can sign for any contract. So basically you are trading a player you no longer wish to pay for one that you plan to cut, which amounts to just getting rid of them for nothing.
Last edited by SWC Bonfire; 07-28-2005 at 10:38 AM.
The Spurs can trade a player to a team under the salary cap and that team can send back a lesser value back so long as they don't go over the cap with the trade. Teams under the cap can "absorb" large contract players without providing equal salaried players in return. The equal rule is only applied to teams over the cap. I'm not sure if this is the same in the new CBA.
Sure he dunks better but I hate that at times Nazr resembles Samaki Walker. Th up fakes that lead to block shots and the butterfinger drops of perfectly thrown passes bug me as well. Add to that, I watched the DVD and there is a scene in which Pop berates the team for letting Billups score on a half-hook. Pop yells out,"Nazr should've been there." That happened a lot during the playoffs.
Thanks, I was unaware of that provision.
Just so you know, that percentage has been changed to 25% in the new CBA.the other team has to send "X" number of players back that match his guaranteed salary for that year +/- 10% or so
I guess that is why he couldn't regain his starting position in the playoffs even though he's been year two years and Nazr was acquired very late in the season. I trust that Pop knew what he was doing and knew who the better player was.
I agree with all of that. I think his defensive rotations will improve this year. I don't know if you can all of sudden pick up "good hands", but that may also be due to him not yet acclimating himself in the offense. One thing I like about Nazr is that he can score off broken plays or generally where he makes something out of nothing. Rasho usually needs plays run for him or he is ineffective on the O. This was an argument presented by those defending his offensive woes. I partly agree with this, but also see that someone who can score on what would essentially a dead play as a bonus. With the offense of Duncan, Gino, and Parker, the Spurs just need someone who can take a dump-off pass and finish close or get some easy buckets around the basket from rebounds. I don't think Rasho fits this as well as Nazr, but intern, Nazr needs to step up to Rasho's level on the defensive end. I think he has the athleticism, he just needs to work on the mental aspects.
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