Trading Rasho versus Nazr

[TexasAggie2005]

So I don't follow all of this as closely as some of the rest of you do, but help me out. Why is all of the talk focusing on trading Rasho? I'm kind of partial to Rasho, but I also think it makes more sense to trade Nazr (logically speaking).

1) Nazr has a smaller contract, he'll be easier to move.
2) Nazr's trade value is higher coming off the playoffs. A lot of the rumored trades that teams won't go for with Rasho might work with Nazr.
3) Nazr's contract expires after next season. This helps both us and the team we'd trade him to. We don't have to worry about resigning our center and the team we trade Nazr to gets cap relief in a year if things don't work out.
4) Personally, I think Rasho is a better fit here. He's more defensively oriented, bigger, and has had more time in our system. I really didn't see a whole lot of advantages with Nazr. He was a little more active on the offensive board, but every bit as clumsy in the post. We really haven't seen enough of Nazr to make a judgment on how well he'll work out in the long term. I don't remember hearing about him being so great when he was in New York.

P.S. I think all of the talk about waiving Rasho sounds ridiculous. We lose a bonafide starting center for possibly a couple million in luxury tax savings. Apparently a majority of ESPN readers disagree with me though.

[Merlin]

So I don't follow all of this as closely as some of the rest of you do, but help me out. Why is all of the talk focusing on trading Rasho? I'm kind of partial to Rasho, but I also think it makes more sense to trade Nazr (logically speaking).

1) Nazr has a smaller contract, he'll be easier to move.
2) Nazr's trade value is higher coming off the playoffs. A lot of the rumored trades that teams won't go for with Rasho might work with Nazr.
3) Nazr's contract expires after next season. This helps both us and the team we'd trade him to. We don't have to worry about resigning our center and the team we trade Nazr to gets cap relief in a year if things don't work out.
4) Personally, I think Rasho is a better fit here. He's more defensively oriented, bigger, and has had more time in our system. I really didn't see a whole lot of advantages with Nazr. He was a little more active on the offensive board, but every bit as clumsy in the post. We really haven't seen enough of Nazr to make a judgment on how well he'll work out in the long term. I don't remember hearing about him being so great when he was in New York.

P.S. I think all of the talk about waiving Rasho sounds ridiculous. We lose a bonafide starting center for possibly a couple million in luxury tax savings. Apparently a majority of ESPN readers disagree with me though.

Nazr is the better defender and more athletic and he is excellent on the offensive boards. Rasho is overpaid right now. Nazr came in late so he really didnt have a chance to get up to speed so to speak. If he can learn just to catch the ball and dunk, he will be awesome in this system or he can sit on the bench and watch Oberto do it if he has the skills. Center is not the most important position on the Spurs team. You plug in someone here. Hopefully, that person can rebound and defend. That's all you need with a little offense for the kicker.

If we can resign Nazr for Rasho's money or somewhere close, then this is a no-brainer.

[TheTruth]

Makes sense to me. I think the Spurs are floating both of their names out there and waiting on the best offer.

The only thing that Nazr does better than Rasho is offensive rebounding. Rasho is the better help defender, and sets some awesome screens. When the Spurs were at their best last regular season Rasho was the starting CTR.

If we can resign Nazr for Rasho's money or somewhere close, then this is a no-brainer.

I don't think the Spurs will be able to sign him for Rasho money. Look at the money 5's are getting paid right now. You can make an argument that Rasho is one of the most underpaid ctrs (I won't though).

[xcoriate]

Nazr is looking at around 9 mil per at my estimations. Far more than Rasho...

It will be very interesting to see what the Spurs do in this regard.

[Sense]

Nazr> Rasho... 1 reason
Oberto>Rasho... Another reason
You want scola?
Rasho is being overpaid, and he's not playing well.
And because Girls like him and we're jealous..

THATS WHY!

[TexasAggie2005]

Nazr is the better defender and more athletic and he is excellent on the offensive boards. Rasho is overpaid right now. Nazr came in late so he really didnt have a chance to get up to speed so to speak. If he can learn just to catch the ball and dunk, he will be awesome in this system or he can sit on the bench and watch Oberto do it if he has the skills. Center is not the most important position on the Spurs team. You plug in someone here. Hopefully, that person can rebound and defend. That's all you need with a little offense for the kicker.

If we can resign Nazr for Rasho's money or somewhere close, then this is a no-brainer.

Nazr's not a better defender. He's more athletic granted, but he's also smaller. Rasho's not really overpaid for a starting center.

Nazr's also going to want a lot more money. I'd be shocked if we can resign him for what Rasho's getting, especially after seeing what guys like Jerome James and Dalembert are getting this offseason. I'm just worried about possibly losing both of them, Rasho in a trade and Nazr to free agency. I know everyone thinks Oberto's the next great thing, but he's never played a minute in the NBA. I'd rather wait to make a call on him.

Finally, I don't think you can teach hands. Nazr's just clumsy.

[Kori Ellis]

Nazr is the better defender and more athletic and he is excellent on the offensive boards.

Rasho is a much better defender. But perhaps after Nazr's been in the system a little longer he'll improve.

[Sense]

Nazr's not a better defender. He's more athletic granted, but he's also smaller. Rasho's not really overpaid for a starting center.

Nazr's also going to want a lot more money. I'd be shocked if we can resign him for what Rasho's getting, especially after seeing what guys like Jerome James and Dalembert are getting this offseason. I'm just worried about possibly losing both of them, Rasho in a trade and Nazr to free agency. I know everyone thinks Oberto's the next great thing, but he's never played a minute in the NBA. I'd rather wait to make a call on him.

Finally, I don't think you can teach hands. Nazr's just clumsy.

Rasho is overpaid for being the player he is..
And I doubt Nazr will want more money if we got Oberto.
If he wants to stay in a championship team that is.

[TexasAggie2005]

Rasho is overpaid for being the player he is..
And I doubt Nazr will want more money if we got Oberto.
If he wants to stay in a championship team that is.

Rasho was playing fine until he got hurt. Okay, so maybe he's not David Robinson, but he's a better starting center than half the league's got. Again, he's not getting paid THAT much. And how do we know Nazr wants to stay here and win championships? He's already got one, maybe he wants money now.

BTW, what's up with all the man love for Oberto on this forum? I hope he pans out too, but if he were ready to start in the NBA today, he would've been in the league years ago. I think he'll turn out to be a really good backup. Anthing more, and I'll be pleasantly surprised. One stupid line from Chad Ford and everyone has him penciled in starting now.

[Kori Ellis]

BTW, what's up with all the man love for Oberto on this forum? I hope he pans out too, but if he were ready to start in the NBA today, he would've been in the league years ago. I think he'll turn out to be a really good backup. Anthing more, and I'll be pleasantly surprised. One stupid line from Chad Ford and everyone has him penciled in starting now.

I think that you are right - Chad Ford got people started on that. But I agree with you that it's very risky to trade Rasho right now. Nazr could easily leave in free agency next summer -- he'll be 29 at the start of the 2006-07, so it'll be his last chance for a fat contract.

[xcoriate]

Another team will offer him a decent contract at around what Dampier got this previous off-season maybe more. Thats why the Spurs have to be incredibly cautious with trading Rasho. It may turn out that we have no way to justify the resigning of Nazr at the price he may command.

[Merlin]

Nazr's not a better defender. He's more athletic granted, but he's also smaller. Rasho's not really overpaid for a starting center.

Nazr's also going to want a lot more money. I'd be shocked if we can resign him for what Rasho's getting, especially after seeing what guys like Jerome James and Dalembert are getting this offseason. I'm just worried about possibly losing both of them, Rasho in a trade and Nazr to free agency. I know everyone thinks Oberto's the next great thing, but he's never played a minute in the NBA. I'd rather wait to make a call on him.

Finally, I don't think you can teach hands. Nazr's just clumsy.

Nazr is a better defender, shot blocker and offensive rebounder. What else do you want? He's smaller by a couple of inches. Big deal. He's more athletic and can jump higher more than offsetting the height difference. Rasho is not a starting center so he is overpaid.

Oberto doesnt have to be great to fit in this system. If he can catch the ball and dunk, then he'll do. By all accounts he is an excellent passer also. That helps. Repeat after me, you dont need a great center on this team. You need someone who will play good defense, give you some rebounds, and a little offense.

[angel_luv]

All right, where were you people when I started a similar thread a few weeks ago???????

Better late than never. But still... = )

[xcoriate]

Merlin, Rasho is by far the superior defender any one here will tell you so. Your wrong.

[milkyway21]

Rasho is overpaid for being the player he is..
And I doubt Nazr will want more money if we got Oberto.
If he wants to stay in a championship team that is.[/

makes me wonder I didn't read anything on Nazr's stand on staying as a Spur. Is he willing to stay? or is it fine with him if he goes to another team if things won't work out?

[TexasAggie2005]

Nazr is a better defender, shot blocker and offensive rebounder. What else do you want? He's smaller by a couple of inches. Big deal. He's more athletic and can jump higher more than offsetting the height difference. Rasho is not a starting center so he is overpaid.

Oberto doesnt have to be great to fit in this system. If he can catch the ball and dunk, then he'll do. By all accounts he is an excellent passer also. That helps. Repeat after me, you dont need a great center on this team. You need someone who will play good defense, give you some rebounds, and a little offense.

Are you kidding? Nazr is in no way a better defender or shot blocker. I think everyone's forgotten about Rasho just because he got hurt and Pop didn't want to change things up halfway through the playoffs. Rasho did a great job defensively for us through the season. Offensive rebounding, you have to give Nazr an edge, but only because he's more aggressive and over his man's back all the time. I don't know how he didn't get called for more over the back fouls in the playoffs. Also, a couple inches is a BIG deal. But it's not just the height, it's also the bulk Rasho brings. I'd feel a lot more comfortable with Rasho guarding Shaq than Nazr.

If we trade Nazr, Rasho starts and he's not overpaid. If we trade Rasho, he starts somewhere else and is not overpaid. Sure he's overpaid when he's riding the pine, but something has to change at some point, we're not keeping both for years to come. Rasho is a STARTING center, somewhere.

As for Oberto, we're not even debating great yet. Let's see if he's even good first. If he were better than Rasho or Nazr, he would've been in the NBA long before now. But he's never played a minute in the NBA. I don't know if he can play good defense and rebound against NBA players. I don't think we need a great center, but I do think we need a decent one. Does Oberto qualify as a decent starting NBA center? It seems a bit premature to decide that, but apparently you already have.

[TexasAggie2005]

So this whole thread has turned into a pissing contest about whether Rasho or Nazr is better, which is only somewhat relevant. The pertinent question is who makes more sense to trade. I think that's Nazr, hands down, for all the reasons I listed at the start of the thread.

[TheTruth]

Nazr is a better defender, shot blocker and offensive rebounder.

Wrong, Wrong, Right. Maybe with a year under his belt he might come close to the help defender Rasho is, but right now it isn't even close. Rasho and Nazr are a wash on the shot blocking. Its our defensive system that creates the blocks.

[zeleni]

You need someone who will play good defense, give you some rebounds, and a little offense.

so... that is Rasho and Nazr. Both of them. Championship team is hungry for tall guys, so why even picking, when you have great tall pieces of the REPEAT PUZZLE?

[batman2883]

Defender???? Rasho got posterized by Carmelo Anthony like Shawn Bradley got posterized by TMAC. Rasho is a big dude and he might deserve to play on another team but as far as atheliticism and overall play, Nazr is a better player. We shall see once the season begins who Pop puts in to start, thats the only way we will ever end this discussion.

[14dave]

I prefer Rasho he's a better defender and makes some good screens and create spacing for the Manu and Tony's drive!! But because of his contract we need to trade him. I don't like Nazr very much and I really don't care if he get traded!
It will be great if Scola could come!!!!

[JUUOT]

my personnal opinion is there is not enough difference between rasho and nazr to pay them differently.

If nazr accept an extension in rasho's range. fine. trade rasho.

BUT if he asks more than rasho... just let him go! or trade him during the season to get something in return.

if we follow market prices and even if you diminish them by 10% to play with a championship caliber. you are looking at 8-9M$ a year for 5 years. This would mean nazr is going to be more expensive than rasho. plus oberto is coming to back up so it is in noway justifacted.

Keep rasho!

[George Gervin's Afro]

I think both have their positives but I do believe that Nazr is more athletic. Rasho is a better offensive player and a better than avg defender while Nazr makes up for his deficiencieswith his athleticism. As of right now we cannot afford to keep both so whomever we choose to keep is a gamble either way. I am a fan of rasho because I do think he fits what the Spurs need but nazr has shown glimpses of defensive and rebounding domination. Tough call .. if I had to make the decision for the team today I would stick with Rasho (with the understanding if it was to be one or the other).

[1Parker1]

Rasho is a good enough Center...especially in a league that lacks so many good quality ones, that he can start on any other team in the NBA. The only reason I think Pop will decide to trade Rasho over Nazr is because Nazr has at times shown glimpses of being a good offensive player, where Rasho hasn't. I've said it time and again:

Rasho>>>Nazr on Defense
Nazr>>>Rasho on Offense

And as much as Pop stresses defense first, I think he realizes that this team needs all the offensive help it can get. And they are hoping that after last season, Nazr will become more acclimated to the Spurs system.

I know I've always ragged on Rasho also--because I always believed that he wasn't a good starter for the Spurs and their system, I do believe that he can be successful starter on another team....such as the Lakers.

People need to start giving Rasho his props. The guy was the Spurs starter for the first two seasons post David Robinson and the Spurs did managed to still win their usual 50+ games per season.

[TexasAggie2005]

so... that is Rasho and Nazr. Both of them. Championship team is hungry for tall guys, so why even picking, when you have great tall pieces of the REPEAT PUZZLE?

Because we have to get rid of one of them, you can't pay a guy $5 million plus for sitting on the bench. It restricts us too much in what we're trying to do with filling out the roster, especially if Holt won't go into luxury tax territory.

So, the general consensus seems to be that Rasho is a better defender. Don't we need that in our system more than we need a little more offense? This is a team that can score a lot (Phx series), we just don't because we play a slower game. San Antonio's dominance is based on our defense. Plus, at some point we're facing Shaq. I have a hard time believing the Heat won't make the Finals at some point in the next few years. Would you rather have Nazr guarding Shaq at that point? He'll get dominated. Rasho can at least slow him down. And it could be that he's been in the system longer, but it seemed like Rasho gave up a lot less easy entry passes and uncontested stuff in the middle.