Star tracker: Manu is No. 1

[Jelly]

No its not...thats why I was saying I was using it in the racial sense.

It wasnt a good choice of words I guess because I was using the often misunderstood usage (one regarding race) to help make my point about Hispanic being a cultural term. Actually Latin (Of Latin American usage) and Hispanic pretty much meant he same thing. I had to use the incorrect version because to be honest I dont know what the correct word is for that racial category.

Latin: A member of a Latin people, especially a native or inhabitant of Latin America.

Hispanic: 1. Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.
2. Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.

sorry. I didn't read your original sentence carefully enough. Didn't mean to split hairs.

[Sense]

Star tracker: Manu is No. 1
Web Posted: 07/29/2005 12:00 AM CDT

San Antonio Express-News


Spurs guard Manu Ginobili has been picked as the most influential Hispanic athlete in the world in a listing of 101 top athletes commissioned by ESPN Deportes La Revista in its first issue.


The list of top Latino coaches, athletes, owners and executives was determined by the staffs of ESPN Deportes La Revista and ESPN Deportes.com, with emphasis on the candidate's recent impact, influence and achievements.


“Ginobili is widely regarded as a hero in his native Argentina, as well as throughout Latin American and to Latinos in the U.S.,” said Juan Antonio Sempere, editor of the magazine. “His performance in the playoffs this year was outstanding, and his impact on international basketball will be felt for years to come.”


The magazine will be on newsstands this week.


The top 10:


1. Ginobili


2. Rinaldinho (Brazil), soccer, F.C. Barcelona


3. Albert Pujols (Dominican Republic), baseball, St. Louis Cardinals


4. Fernando Alonso (Spain), auto racing, Formula One


5. Pedro Martinez (Dominican Republic), baseball, New York Mets


6. Hernan Crespo (Argentina), soccer, A.C. Milan


7. Oscar De La Hoya (United States), boxing


8. Marco Antonio Barrera (Mexico), boxing


9. Rafael Nadal (Spain), tennis


10. Rafael Benitez (Spain), soccer, Liverpool.


-- Tim Griffin

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b....1d7dda46.html

What about Morales?

[smeagol]

The list is done by Americans for Americans, hence the mistakes.

And I don't mean in in a disrespectful way.

[Sense]

The list is done by Americans for Americans, hence the mistakes.

And I don't mean in in a disrespectful way.

I agree.

[SequSpur]

I thought Hispanic meant you were from the Southside.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I thought Hispanic meant you were from the Southside.

I thought Dwarves existed only in Lord of the Rings.

[Horry For 3!]

Pretty good.

[WalterBenitez]

Brazilians are not considered Hispanic

I think they refer to Latinos, in that case Brazilian are well included; in any case the name of Barcelona's star is Ronaldinho and not Rinadinho.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

they would be called philipinos.

...or former Peruvian President Fujimori

[MaNuMaNiAc]

It looks to me like they bent over backwards trying to come up with a list that made it appear that Latin America's sporting interest are more diverse than they are? Perhaps they just didn't want to do a list that had nothing but soccer players on there even if it turned out they were the most influential. I mean, it's a list of the top ten and it's only got 3 soccer players on it. How many people have heard of that tennis guy? Also, if they were going to include Baseball players, I don't know why Alex Rodriguez isn't on there. I believe he claims Dominican citizenship.

Latin American sporting interest IS diverse. Its just that soccer is the MOST popular. Doesn't mean its the ONLY interest.

[Jelly]

Latin American sporting interest IS diverse. Its just that soccer is the MOST popular. Doesn't mean its the ONLY interest.

I guess I was comparing it to American sporting interests which I suspect are more diverse. Do you disagree? I assume this because in addition to the golf, tennis, auto racing, boxing etc. which is popular the world over, we have three major sports, while you and the rest of the world have one. Also, whenever I watch satellite coverage of sports news shows from around the world (okay, okay, I've mainly seen it from English speaking nations...) the entire program only covers soccer. A sports news show here will cover many sports. Also, the sports section of foreign papers all seem to have a content which is over 90% soccer.

I confess, this is just an impression of mine and I am kind of lumping South America in with the rest of the world when I make this kind of judgement (that their sporting interests are less diverse).

[boutons]

If Tony is "French" rather than American, then Manu is "Argentinian/Latin" rather than Italian.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I guess I was comparing it to American sporting interests which I suspect are more diverse. Do you disagree? I assume this because in addition to the golf, tennis, auto racing, boxing etc. which is popular the world over, we have three major sports, while you and the rest of the world have one. Also, whenever I watch satellite coverage of sports news shows from around the world (okay, okay, I've mainly seen it from English speaking nations...) the entire program only covers soccer. A sports news show here will cover many sports. Also, the sports section of foreign papers all seem to have a content which is over 90% soccer.

I confess, this is just an impression of mine and I am kind of lumping South America in with the rest of the world when I make this kind of judgement (that their sporting interests are less diverse).

I see what you're saying. I don't think its that the US has more interests, rather than the fact that its able to televise and better finance its different sports. Latin America has quite a lot of sports actually. To name a few, soccer, rugby, tennis, polo, paddle, swimming, volleyball, beach volleyball, beach soccer, baseball, grass hockey, golf, etc. Granted, some of them aren't very widespread, but they're there. Also rally racing and formula 1 are popular over here.

[nkdlunch]

ESPN is re ed. That list is WAY off.

if you're talking about who's most influential in the WORLD, not the US. Then it's gotta be the most famous soccer player, which I guess is Ronaldinho right now. But yeah, Brazilians are not HISPANIC either. So in conclusion ESPN is dumb as .

And another thing, all latin american should be considered one peoples, even though we're all sorts of different colors. Watch Motorcycle Diaries, an you'll understand.

[manubili]

ESPN is re ed. That list is WAY off.

if you're talking about who's most influential in the WORLD, not the US. Then it's gotta be the most famous soccer player, which I guess is Ronaldinho right now. But yeah, Brazilians are not HISPANIC either. So in conclusion ESPN is dumb as .

And another thing, all latin american should be considered one peoples, even though we're all sorts of different colors. Watch Motorcycle Diaries, an you'll understand.

You're completely right.

[TMTTRIO]

Here's Manu's response on his forum:

??? Most influenctial?? sounds cool!!

But if in Brazil somebody hears that I´m more influential than Ronaldo, I´ll be ni trouble!

Thanks for posting...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Here's Manu's response on his forum:

Question: If he's on the cover of the magazine that has written all of the front of it "MOST INFLUENTIAL HISPANIC ATHLETES"... why does he sound so surprised?

[hendrix]

I think "american" people (from USA) see as themselves as "just american" and use terms as "100% american" or "pure american" and patriotic stuff like that and dont realize they're (mostly) of european descent. So, THIS NEED they have to "categorize" people from around the world is really dumb IMHO.
Everything below Rio Grande is "hispanic".
Everything across the atlantic is "european" (russians are the same as germans, and danish are the same to portuguese, and french are the same as finnish, and so on... to them)
A little down south, they see "africa" (South Africa is the same as Morocco, and Egypt is the same as Nigeria, etc, etc...)
And then you have "asians" (Chinese are the same as Japanese, Iraqis are the same as Indians, and so on...)

GET A CLUE. The United States was made of immigrants and now they live in one soil.

I dont care if we (latin-americans) look the same or not. We speak the same language and have a lot in common.The fact is the CIA used the term "hispanic" to pinpoint a race or a culture.
So please, get a clue, drop the CIA stereotype and avoid questioning if an argentine or a chilean or uruguayan LOOKS "hispanic" or not. Ask CIA for that. We are hispanic, or latin-american.
And in that sense... USA is british-american or english-american.
"hispanic" is not a race as "white" or "mestizo" or whatever.

[Jelly]

[QUOTE=hendrix]I
The fact is the CIA used the term "hispanic" to pinpoint a race or a culture.
So please, get a clue, drop the CIA stereotype QUOTE]

I
USA is British-American or english-american.
.

I don't think Americans of Italian, Polish, German, French, Russian, Swedish, Danish, Dutch, and African descent would appreciate that.

Also, it was not the CIA but the US Census Bureau who introduced the term "hispanic" for reasons entirely benign and practical.
I understand that this is a sensitive issue to some, but I don't think anyone means offense by asking for clarity when a Sports channel or magazine produces a list of top hispanic athletes.

[hendrix]

I don't think Americans of Italian, Polish, German, French, Russian, Swedish, Danish, Dutch, and African descent would appreciate that.

The citizens of the USA of descent other than british speak english (main language)... as people from the same descent speak spanish in Argentina, etc... and speak portuguese in Brazil.
And we all are called "hispanic" or "latin-americans" because our first language is spanish. So why not everyone born in USA is anglo-american?
Is it because you like those stereotypes?

Also, it was not the CIA but the US Census Bureau who introduced the term "hispanic" for reasons entirely benign and practical.

Dumb option. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've been told the options for "race" are: Caucasian (white), Black (or African-american) and Hispanic...
THAT's what I'm laughing at. See the game there? Hispanic is not a race.

I understand that this is a sensitive issue to some, but I don't think anyone means offense by asking for clarity when a Sports channel or magazine produces a list of top hispanic athletes.

It's not a sensitive issue. It's laughable the level of ignorance. You people like stereotyping.
And I think the magazine is accurate. Ginobili is hispanic.
Including brazilians in the list can be tricky, but portuguese is close enough to spanish and we understand eachother (most of the time)... so, fine by me.

[WalterBenitez]

I lived in Brazil, believe me... they don't think they are hispanic ( )... perhaps latinos, but no hispanic ...

BTW, the list is a salad, the real name should it be sth like

"The most influencial guy coming from Argentina ... a place that some people consider hispanic (please be careful if you are reading from Brazil) and read Italy instead of Argentina if you are reading from Rome, sorroundings... or if you are an Italian descendant"

[Jelly]

The citizens of the USA of descent other than british speak english (main language)... as people from the same descent speak spanish in Argentina, etc... and speak portuguese in Brazil.
And we all are called "hispanic" or "latin-americans" because our first language is spanish. So why not everyone born in USA is anglo-american?
Is it because you like those stereotypes?

Dumb option. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've been told the options for "race" are: Caucasian (white), Black (or African-american) and Hispanic...
THAT's what I'm laughing at. See the game there? Hispanic is not a race.


It's not a sensitive issue. It's laughable the level of ignorance. You people like stereotyping.
And I think the magazine is accurate. Ginobili is hispanic.
Including brazilians in the list can be tricky, but portuguese is close enough to spanish and we understand eachother (most of the time)... so, fine by me.

It obviously is a sensitive issue if some people jump to conclusions that you only want to understand what "hispanic" means because you like to stereotype.

As far as ignorance, well, I'll admit that I was unsure of the true definition of "hispanic" until I looked it up and learned that in South America it usually means Spanish speaking people. (However even some Latin American sources on the web seem to dispute that definition, so if everyone isn't in agreement it's hardly fair to call those of us on the outside "ignorant")

Also, I don't think you should laugh at the ignorance of Americans in thinking of 'hispanic' as a race, since over here, 'hispanic' generally IS regarded as a race, not just by anglos but by hispanics themselves! And your language application will make no sense in the U.S as the majority of hispanic Americans probably have English as a first language (at least those who have been here for generations). In fact, there are millions of hispanic Americans who don't speak a word of Spanish. In San Antonio alone, many hispanics don't speak Spanish. By your definition these people would not be hispanic.

My point is that you are right that many Americans (myself included) were ignorant as to how people in South America determine who is hispanic, but it is laughable that you found that so laughable since you seem to be just as ignorant as to how the same determination is made in the U.S.

A few other points..

On the U.S. Census Bureau forms (and similar forms used to track demographics...which is not an evil exercise in stereotyping btw) there are about 7 or 8 or maybe more different ethnicities listed. It isn't just White, Black, Hispanic. I don't remember all the choices but it's pretty detailed and a person can choose none of the above if they want. The bottom line though, is that it's not done for some sinister reasons which you seem to allude to, but is done as a means of identifying demographics, tracking population growth, and lots of other pertinent data and ALL countries do this. Calling this U.S. stereotyping is silly. The Census Bureau just came up with a word "hispanic" for lack of a better word. I suppose they could have chosen the word "mestizo" (sp?) like they do in other countries, including your own I believe. But still, all countries go about the task of identifying ethnic groups and use sometimes conflicting words to do so. You are turning a semantic issue into an argument about American stereotyping. It just doesn't hold water.

(btw - true stereotyping is what the Mexicans did on that stamp)

[TOP-CHERRY]

Dang!

[hendrix]

Also, I don't think you should laugh at the ignorance of Americans in thinking of 'hispanic' as a race, since over here, 'hispanic' generally IS regarded as a race, not just by anglos but by hispanics themselves!

Hispanic is not a race. If so, define me the physiognomy or morphology of the "hispanic" race. See the problem here?.

And your language application will make no sense in the U.S as the majority of hispanic Americans probably have English as a first language (at least those who have been here for generations). In fact, there are millions of hispanic Americans who don't speak a word of Spanish. In San Antonio alone, many hispanics don't speak Spanish. By your definition these people would not be hispanic.

It's like saying Alexis Bledel (one of the girls in Sin City) is only "white"... when in fact she is also "hispanic" (since her first language is spanish).
Let's meet in the middle... "hispanic" is not a race, but I'd broaden the spectrum to include the non-spanish-speakers by saying, maybe it is a "culture" and includes people who lives and feel the way latin-americans live and feel.
Is that ok?
But by definition of "race"... no way.

Bureau just came up with a word "hispanic" for lack of a better word. I suppose they could have chosen the word "mestizo" (sp?) like they do in other countries, including your own I believe. But still, all countries go about the task of identifying ethnic groups and use sometimes conflicting words to do so. You are turning a semantic issue into an argument about American stereotyping. It just doesn't hold water.

In my country nobody asks "what race are you?" or "what are you?" (Maybe just for religion, but very few cares). No goverment agency has a database with "records" of certain ethnic groups to "track them".
We know who could qualify as a mestizo or who would be a chinese (ok, I mix japanese, chinese and koreans most of the time ) but as far i know, we are all argentinians.

[Supergirl]

Why Pujols and not David Ortiz, or Manny Ramirez? He didn't win the World Series, or get voted MVP...