Back to Reality

[Biernutz]

I remember 4 years ago when we were too old and to slow and the league had passed us by....

[Tuddy]

Adjustments over a 7 game series is why, if healthy, we'll get it done

[maurolv]

Thank you!

[Juggity]

I have a hard time understanding how anyone could disagree with OP on this one. mother of all truth bombs.

[daslicer]

Spurs fans are spoiled and en le they don't realize how good they have it. My home team is the bobcats and they have been crap for years. They have never had a great year in all the 10 years they have been around. Their fan base would die just to have the record the spurs have right now. Sure it sucks not being able to beat the top teams but keep things in perspective that this is a hard league to win in especially just to win 50 games consistently. Spur fans have been fortunate to have had a team that was above average for over 20 years minus the year Robinson was injured. Tanking doesn't guarantee that you will get a great pick just look at the bobcats they have tried it so many times but have failed miserably in what they have gotten. Winning a le would be great but just enjoy having a team that can win over 50 games because that won't be the case in few years when Duncan is retired. Trust me you will miss these days once the spurs are consistently a 20-30 win team.

[Aremid]

Spurs fans are spoiled and en le they don't realize how good they have it. My home team is the bobcats and they have been crap for years. They have never had a great year in all the 10 years they have been around. Their fan base would die just to have the record the spurs have right now. Sure it sucks not being able to beat the top teams but keep things in perspective that this is a hard league to win in especially just to win 50 games consistently. Spur fans have been fortunate to have had a team that was above average for over 20 years minus the year Robinson was injured. Tanking doesn't guarantee that you will get a great pick just look at the bobcats they have tried it so many times but have failed miserably in what they have gotten. Winning a le would be great but just enjoy having a team that can win over 50 games because that won't be the case in few years when Duncan is retired. Trust me you will miss these days once the spurs are consistently a 20-30 win team.

It's not spoiled to question how your team is managed especially if there have been questionable decisions...

[DMC]

Good post tbh. Spurfan is a very spoiled base, it's like people forget that the Spurs have more les than every single team in the NBA except for the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls. The first two have so many les for obvious reasons and Chicago because they had the GOAT. Spurfan doesn't realize how insanely hard it is to win multiple les in the NBA when you're not the Lakers and Celtics.

That being said, it is rather concerning to see the Spurs losing to every decent team. But still, tbe gnsf trying to rationalize the losses makes some good points. Houston will get raped by the Spurs in the playoffs, not even worried about that. Indiana is a great team and the best defensive team in the league, losing to them is nothing to be ashamed of or cliff jumping over. The game @ OKC didn't surprise me and the Clips game along with yesterday's, you had a different top 3 player out for both of those so it's not some kind of embarrassment to lose to the upper tier of teams in the league without your best players on the floor. The positives are Duncan is rounding into form, Ginobili has been playing much better ball this year than last, Parker is obviously coasting and trying not to punish his body too much, Beli is the truth, Diaw is playing with a purpose, and Mills has been a wonderful surprise this season. Leonard needs to progress a little more but I'm not too worried about that yet. The only one bothering me is Green, but he is a streaky son of a and you know he's going to get hot at some point for a stretch, so we have to hope it's an important one.

Despite that the Spurs are still coasting at 21-6. I'll be more worried if the Spurs end the season going 0-4 against every good West team and 0-2 against every good East team. But they still haven't played as good as they can. Maybe I'm off but I truly believe most of them are eying the playoffs and a chance at redemption. The regular season is boring.

As far as starting slow, I think the Spurs move in group lock step. They play as a team, they win and lose as a team, so it stands to reason they improve as a team. Other teams like OKC, often it's one star player that's in a slump that might cost them a game, or that star player that's on fire that scores 50 or pulls down 30 rebounds and it wins them a couple games against >.500 teams. With the Spurs, the entire game concept for them is to be stronger as a whole than the sum of their parts. That doesn't always happen right away (often doesn't happen right away in fact). The Rodeo Road Trip will be the time when the defense begins to gel and we'll know then, because that's when team chemistry is built. These guys probably don't see each other much in the off season, some not at all.

[DMC]

It's not spoiled to question how your team is managed especially if there have been questionable decisions...

It's naive when you don't understand team management however. Some deductive reasoning is needed to conclude that a coach who's as successful as Pop is going to make the best decisions for his team, and that those brief 48 minutes you get to see players actually playing is only a sample of the endless hours Pop gets with them on and off the court. I trust he knows his players.

[Aremid]

As far as starting slow, I think the Spurs move in group lock step. They play as a team, they win and lose as a team, so it stands to reason they improve as a team. Other teams like OKC, often it's one star player that's in a slump that might cost them a game, or that star player that's on fire that scores 50 or pulls down 30 rebounds and it wins them a couple games against >.500 teams. With the Spurs, the entire game concept for them is to be stronger as a whole than the sum of their parts. That doesn't always happen right away (often doesn't happen right away in fact). The Rodeo Road Trip will be the time when the defense begins to gel and we'll know then, because that's when team chemistry is built. These guys probably don't see each other much in the off season, some not at all.

When was the last time a "team" won a championship? Detroit in 04, nearly a decade ago. The nba has changed. This is the super team era and players that can take over games w superb 1 on 1 play bring in the rings, not "system ball."

[DMC]

When was the last time a "team" won a championship? Detroit in 04, nearly a decade ago. The nba has changed. This is the super team era and players that can take over games w superb 1 on 1 play bring in the rings, not "system ball."

Who took over games in 2007?

Is basketball offense only? I was under the impression that defense wins championships.

[TheGoldStandard]

Who took over games in 2007?

Is basketball offense only? I was under the impression that defense wins championships.

Tony averaged 24/5/3 that series and out worked a one man Cleveland team. Manu and Horry are responsible for 2005, Duncan 2003

[DMC]

Tony averaged 24/5/3 that series and out worked a one man Cleveland team. Manu and Horry are responsible for 2005, Duncan 2003

That doesn't make Tony a fortress at the other end. Basketball has a full court, and the team has to play at both ends. It doesn't matter if Tony scores 100 points if the other team still wins.

[TheGoldStandard]

That doesn't make Tony a fortress at the other end. Basketball has a full court, and the team has to play at both ends. It doesn't matter if Tony scores 100 points if the other team still wins.

2007 Cavs were spectators or witnesses to LeBron dominating unathletic teams in the east. Now we look like the unathletic team hoping team ball will beat a star athlete driven league

[Aremid]

That doesn't make Tony a fortress at the other end. Basketball has a full court, and the team has to play at both ends. It doesn't matter if Tony scores 100 points if the other team still wins.

You're right, and we had an all-star caliber defender in Bruce Bowen. Not to mention Duncan who played both sides of the court... Kinda like lebron?

[DMC]

You're right, and we had an all-star caliber defender in Bruce Bowen.

So then it wasn't the 1 on 1 play of Tony Parker. Sounds like a team thing.

[DMC]

2007 Cavs were spectators or witnesses to LeBron dominating unathletic teams in the east. Now we look like the unathletic team hoping team ball will beat a star athlete driven league

Except you're discounting the statistics that show speed, quickness, accuracy and decision making. James White is athletic, as is Ayres, fwiw.

[Juggity]

When was the last time a "team" won a championship? Detroit in 04, nearly a decade ago. The nba has changed. This is the super team era and players that can take over games w superb 1 on 1 play bring in the rings, not "system ball."

If the NBA has changed as you say, and "teams" cannot win championships, then it's clear you're suggesting that that the spurs cannot win as currently constructed. They aren't a "super team" in the sense of having 3 top-20 players in the game like the Heat or Thunder. But how do you reconcile that with the fact that the spurs came 1 rebound away from a championship? Or the fact that the Pacers (another "team" in the sense you've defined) were similarly close to overcoming the Heat in the ECF last year?

Further, what is your suggested course of action for the spurs? Who do you want them to acquire? Or are you ready to blow the team up?

[TheGoldStandard]

Except you're discounting the statistics that show speed, quickness, accuracy and decision making. James White is athletic, as is Ayres, fwiw.

James white is not a star. I'm talking about players who actually shape a franchise. We can agree that there are only 2 trams in the East that are real contenders and no amount of team ball is going to out do Miami as long as LeBron is there. Same thing in the west there are two or three teams that we know will compete for a shot at the le. Looking at the spurs we lean on Duncan, parker and Manu because those are our star players and it's those guys when it comes down to critical moments, series deciding moments that we need them to come thru. Team ball gets us thru the regular season but having star caliber players gets you thru the playoffs. Last year Duncan turned back the clock and bailed us out of a lot of those sticky situations same with parker.

[DMC]

James white is not a star. I'm talking about players who actually shape a franchise. We can agree that there are only 2 trams in the East that are real contenders and no amount of team ball is going to out do Miami as long as LeBron is there. Same thing in the west there are two or three teams that we know will compete for a shot at the le. Looking at the spurs we lean on Duncan, parker and Manu because those are our star players and it's those guys when it comes down to critical moments, series deciding moments that we need them to come thru. Team ball gets us thru the regular season but having star caliber players gets you thru the playoffs. Last year Duncan turned back the clock and bailed us out of a lot of those sticky situations same with parker.

Now you're moving goalposts.

So the Pacers are contenders but not because they play team ball? What excuse will you use when a team does beat the Heat with team play? Do you think the Heat don't play team ball?

[TheGoldStandard]

Now you're moving goalposts.

So the Pacers are contenders but not because they play team ball? What excuse will you use when a team does beat the Heat with team play? Do you think the Heat don't play team ball?

I'm saying that if Paul George or hibbert aren't there they are among the fodder of the east. If LeBron were off Miami they'd be less significant. I hate the guy but LeBron is just flat out a beast and carried Cleveland with nobody to multiple conference championship games and a finals and they fell off when he left.

[Aremid]

If the NBA has changed as you say, and "teams" cannot win championships, then it's clear you're suggesting that that the spurs cannot win as currently constructed. They aren't a "super team" in the sense of having 3 top-20 players in the game like the Heat or Thunder. But how do you reconcile that with the fact that the spurs came 1 rebound away from a championship? Or the fact that the Pacers (another "team" in the sense you've defined) were similarly close to overcoming the Heat in the ECF last year?

Further, what is your suggested course of action for the spurs? Who do you want them to acquire? Or are you ready to blow the team up?

So did the Spurs or Pacers beat the Heat last year?

Close doesn't count. The best example I can give you about talent winning out over system ball is Ray Allen vs Danny Green. Ray Allen has always been an all star shooter who was crucial in Boston's le run and finals return in 2010. Danny Green was glued to the bench in Cleveland and benefitted from Pop's system here. Ask any coach or gym or player which player (green or Allen) you want shooting the game tying 3 in game 6 of the NBA finals. Talent wins out every time.

As as far as course of action, I think the offense needs to run through kawai with tony as your second scorer. I think bonner draft picks Danny green need to be traded for a guy like Amir Johnson who is that stretch four who can bang and play good D. We need more toughness and a guy like meta world peace who isn't afraid to back down from anybody. This would be a good start.

[DMC]

I'm saying that if Paul George or hibbert aren't there they are among the fodder of the east. If LeBron were off Miami they'd be less significant. I hate the guy but LeBron is just flat out a beast and carried Cleveland with nobody to multiple conference championship games and a finals and they fell off when he left.

I don't get your point. If a team doesn't have good players it won't win? Is that it?

[DMC]

So did the Spurs or Pacers beat the Heat last year?

Close doesn't count. The best example I can give you about talent winning out over system ball is Ray Allen vs Danny Green. Ray Allen has always been an all star shooter who was crucial in Boston's le run and finals return in 2010. Danny Green was glued to the bench in Cleveland and benefitted from Pop's system here. Ask any coach or gym or player which player (green or Allen) you want shooting the game tying 3 in game 6 of the NBA finals. Talent wins out every time.

As as far as course of action, I think the offense needs to run through kawai with tony as your second scorer. I think bonner draft picks Danny green need to be traded for a guy like Amir Johnson who is that stretch four who can bang and play good D. We need more toughness and a guy like meta world peace who isn't afraid to back down from anybody. This would be a good start.

It does count. Just ask the ticket offices.

[TheGoldStandard]

I don't get your point. If a team doesn't have good players it won't win? Is that it?

I'm saying that great players win championships not team ball. I'd rather roll with the 2003 Spurs than the 2013 Spurs.

[Aremid]

I don't get your point. If a team doesn't have good players it won't win? Is that it?

I think what he is trying to say is that if you have a team of decent role players who play awesome team ball, they will not defeat a team of superstars who play decent team ball. Ie jazz vs bulls