Rosen at it again! DROB overated!!

[Horry For 3!]

[ICE3000]

this rosen guy is a joke

[Leetonidas]

I would love to hear what Sir Charles has to say about this. :

[Spurminator]

Has Rosen reached such a point of irrelevance that he's resorted to baiting for controversy?

What is with this guy? Seems like all summer he's been begging for attention.

It's the equivalent of a 50-year old Ron Jeremy going to a corner bar and dropping trou on a side table going "Hey! Look at me!"

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Barkley heads list of overrated 'greats'
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Charley Rosen / Special to FOXSports.com
Posted: 2 hours ago

The numbers are misleading, and so is the hype. The truth is that too many "good" players are wrongly celebrated as being all-time greats. To set the record straight, here's an alphabetical list of the most overrated NBA players ever.

Charles Barkley

Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird ... Charley Rosen ranks the NBA's best players ever position by position.

# Power forwards | Small forwards
# Point guards | Shooting guards
# Centers | Sixth men | Coaches

The Round Mound of Rebound was never in acceptable game shape. But reporting to one Houston training camp 20 pounds overweight didn't prevent him from chastising his teammates for not being serious about challenging for the championship. Also, he only played defense when the spirit moved him — which was very seldom. These days, he complains about not having played with top-flight teammates — left unsaid, however, is the fact that Barkley's self-involved style of play did nothing to compliment whatever talents his teammates did have. Over the course of his career, Barkley's selfishness and total lack of discipline made him a chronic underachiever.

Walt Bellamy

He was lazy, sloppy, soft, selfish, defenseless, and useless in the clutch. The media called him "Big Bells," but his fellow players had another name for him — "Tinker Bell". His career averages of 20.1 points and 13.7 rebounds per game notwithstanding, what's Bellamy doing in the Hall of Fame?

Patrick Ewing

Patrick Ewing wasn't exactly his best when the game was on the line. (Otto Greule Jr. / Getty Images)

Had he played out of the spotlight in someplace like Orlando or Salt Lake City, Ewing would be remembered as a jump-shooting center who worked hard. Period. With the adulatory New York fans and media filtering their perceptions through the lens of their need to have heroes to celebrate, Ewing was celebrated as being far better than he really was. In truth, he couldn't handle, pass, move laterally, and do anything worthwhile when an important game was on the line. Moreover, his dim apprehension of what the game was all about precluded any thoughts of being unselfish. Except for the early days of the Mets and the Brooklyn Dodgers, New York sports fans rarely hitch their devotion to a loser like Ewing.

George Gervin

Double-G was a great scorer, smooth and virtually unstoppable. And that's all, folks. He couldn't (or didn't) pass, defend, or rebound. Gervin's idea of team basketball was when a teammate passed him the ball. Of necessity, his San Antonio teams played high-octane offense and flat-tire defense. That's why Gervin never played in a championship series.

Connie Hawkins

He could finish in spectacular ways, and he could make both plain and simple passes. Otherwise, he couldn't shoot, rebound, run, or play defense. How bad was the Hawk's defense? The first time he played in Madison Square Garden, the Suns tried to hide Hawkins' atrocious defense by matching him up with Barnett. Too bad Barnett was so insulted by the ploy that he lit up Hawkins for 35 points. Also, nobody ever accused Hawkins of having a passion to play basketball: He once told the Suns that he couldn't play that night because he had a fever. A doctor was summoned, and Hawkins' temperature registered at 98.9. As a result, Hawkins felt justified to sit on the bench in his civvies. Hawkins was all flash and very little substance.

Elvin Hayes

He could do three things — rebound, block shots, and shoot a high percentage on turnaround jumpers from the left box. He couldn't pass, handle, play honest defense, or hit a clutch shot to get into heaven. In addition, he paid no attention to the basketball alphabet of Xs and Os. All he cared about was "me-ball-basket."

Karl Malone

I've been on this guy's case many times before, and for the same reasons. He found various ways to choke in the 1996 Conference finals and in the 1997 and 1998 Finals — missed free throws, damaging turnovers, ill-advised shots, losing gambles on defense, and so on. In addition, his passing skills and his defense were both overblown, and his assist-turnover ration was a horrendous 5:4. There are only two reasons why Malone is deemed to be an elite power-forward — John Stockton, and longevity.

Bob McAdoo

Here's all anyone needs to know about McAdoo's game: When he played against the Celtics, McAdoo was usually defended by Dave Cowens. Now Cowens was a legitimate tough guy who always played with intensity, power, and courage, and whose rough-house tactics on defense would often approach minor felonies. At the start of McAdoo's matchups with Cowens, B-Mac would assume his favorite position on the left box. Perhaps he'd even get a shot off. Perhaps he'd even get fouled. But Cowens would definitely assault him with elbows, knees, hips, forearms, and fists. By the middle of the first quarter, McAdoo would post-up five feet beyond the box. By the end of the fourth quarter, he'd be looking to receive the ball near the 3-point line. Anything to avoid contact. In other words, McAdoo was nothing more than a big, quick, soft, jump-shooter deluxe.

Pete Maravich

A one-man circus who wouldn't throw a pass unless it was behind the back or through the legs or in one ear and out the other. And his completion rate was barely above .500. His ball-hogging made him unpopular with his teammates, but scored big-time with the media. It's no accident that his teams were always pretenders and never contenders. It also says here that Maravich was the worst defender in NBA history.

Gary Payton

G.P. has always been a shoot-first point guard, favoring post-ups, open middles, and high-and-low screens to locate his shots. He was also a confrontational player, demanding perfection form his teammates and his coaches, but never from himself. Payton's reputation for playing outstanding defense gained him All-Defense honors for nine seasons, and a famous nickname, "The Glove." Even so, during the 1996 Finals, the Chicago Bulls set out to prove something that they already knew — that Payton's rep was mostly bogus. In lieu of playing solid contain defense, Payton routinely gambled for steals at every opportunity, and when he failed he put his teammates in jeopardy. The Bulls limited Payton's room to maneuver by posting Michael Jordan, who had little difficulty catching, shooting, driving, and generally having his way against G.P. Payton's game was, and is, less than meets the eye.

David Robinson

This guy was a cream puff. He could come from the weak-side to block shots, but he couldn't guard his own man. He could rebound, but rarely in a crowd. He could score, but only on foul-line jumpers, or only if a defender bought a head fake after he drove his left hand into the middle. He couldn't pass or handle. He couldn't stand his ground in the paint. And, according to one of his ex-coaches, he never worked on his game in the off-season simply because he really didn't like playing basketball. Had he not played alongside of Tim Duncan, The Admiral would have been lost at sea.

Charley Rosen, former CBA coach, author of 12 books about hoops, the current one being A pivotal season — How the 1971-72 L.A. Lakers changed the NBA, is a frequent contributor to FOXSports.com.

That is way too much bull coming from one writer in just one article. How can he talk like that about those players? We might like some more, dislike others, but they were good players without a doubt. Overrated? Some of them, maybe media overhyped, but I would like to see what Mr. Rosen writes about many of the current active players, if he has the guts to call them overrated and then call them for an interview.

Jeez, I'd rather read yet another Manu article from Ludden before this weak attempt. Damn, I can't wait for the season to start, between the "Miami Heat 2005-06 NBA Champs" and this kind of articles...

[NCaliSpurs]

Didn't this guy say that David would have been one of the all-time great defensive centers in his "All-time Centers" article?

[ShoogarBear]

It's the equivalent of a 50-year old Ron Jeremy going to a corner bar and dropping trou on a side table going "Hey! Look at me!"

That's really unfair.

Ron Jeremy is respected in his line of work.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Ask that idiot to kiss his own ass! Nobody said DRob was a legendary superstar. He was a very good player in his own right. But he will always be remembered as a player who had heart not only on the court but off it as well. Some writers obviously cant live with that. DRob showed that he doesnt have an ego that would demand to have the ball all the time and that he could live with being the 2nd guy. So screw Rosen and his smart ass comments.

[BigDiggyD]

Wow.. this guy is off his rocker...

Looking at players who logged at least 30,000 minutes in their career starting in 1978 DRob comes in at #3 in terms of Player Efficiency Rating (All the good stuff, minus the bad stuff) behing Shaq and Jordan. Then in terms of Player Win % (Offensive Rating/ Offensive Rating+Defensive Rating) he is #1. Also he comes in at #1 in terms of Defensive Rating alone.

In terms of single season performance his 1994 performance is the only non-Jordan performance in the top 5 (Jordan '88, '91, '90, '89, DRob '94). David is the only player besides Shaq and Jordan to crack the top 10 in single season Win Shares (player is more than 33% responsible for a single win)

So we have a guy who was the most statistically dominant defensive player in the last 27 years, who put up the 5th best single season performance behind only Jordan, 3rd best career performance behind Jordan and Shaq, carried his team on his back more times than I can remember, and he is overrated...... wow.... at least back it up with something tangible.

[Spurminator]

Yes, but he couldn't hit jump shots for Vinny Del Negro. Thus he clearly sucked balls.

[howbouthemspurs]

D-ROB is one of the most underated centers of all time!!!
If he would have entered into the league two years earlier when he could've but didnt due to his Navy responsibilities and not have been injured all of that one season in 96' he would've been in the top ten all time of almost every major statistical catagory!!

Rosen is a dumbass

[Dre_7]

Who really cares what this clown says. DRob is HOFer. He is one of the best centers to ever play the game. No matter what anyone says, DRobs place in history is secure.

Nuff Said

[gospursgojas]

Who really cares what this clown says. DRob is HOFer. He is one of the best centers to ever play the game. No matter what anyone says, DRobs place in history is secure.

Nuff Said

I with you ... who the cares what this dumbass says....

[whottt]

It wasn't Larry Brown that said that...at least I don't think it was.

Larry Brown said Drob was the one player he'd like to go back coach again.

I think it was probably John Lucas that said it. Then again, LB is kind of two faced and he and Drob didn't exactly get along the first time around. Still, I don't see why he'd say that kind of thing about him unless he meant it.


As for the hate on Drob...it's basically the same things many Spurfans say, more or less. Drob made the mistake of being a truly good human being and role model in a shallow and cynical profession. He should have been more of a chest thumper. That's all it is....he had a nice guy at ude and because of that people eviscerate him...I think it's probably because he sets a higher standard of character and conduct than most people can ever hope to achieve.

Just be glad Duncan won this year(with a great team)...or else they would be saying the same things about Duncan..the media was savaging Duncan until game 7 of the finals...if he'd lost they would have said he couldn't win without Drob and he was a soft . Unless they were talking about Drob...Now Duncan is spared that fate.

His comments on Gervin are ignorant as well...Gervin is at worst the 3rd best 2 guard in NBA history IMO, and I'm not totally sure I put Jerry West ahead of him...not a lot of 2 guards are franchise players...and Gervin was one. Like Drob...he also happens to be a really nice guy.

San Antonio has been so lucky.

[timvp]

It wasn't Larry Brown that said that...at least I don't think it was.

Larry Brown said Drob was the one player he'd like to go back coach again.

I think it was probably John Lucas that said it. Then again, LB is kind of two faced and he and Drob didn't exactly get along the first time around. Still, I don't see why he'd say that kind of thing about him unless he meant it.


As for the hate on Drob...it's basically the same things many Spurfans say, more or less. Drob made the mistake of being a truly good human being and role model in a shallow and cynical profession. He should have been more of a chest thumper. That's all it is....he had a nice guy at ude and because of that people eviscerate him...I think it's probably because he sets a higher standard of character and conduct than most people can ever hope to achieve.

Just be glad Duncan won this year(with a great team)...or else they would be saying the same things about Duncan..the media was savaging Duncan until game 7 of the finals...if he'd lost they would have said he couldn't win without Drob and he was a soft . Unless they were talking about Drob...Now Duncan is spared that fate.

His comments on Gervin are ignorant as well...Gervin is at worst the 3rd best 2 guard in NBA history IMO, and I'm not totally sure I put Jerry West ahead of him...not a lot of 2 guards are franchise players...and Gervin was one. Like Drob...he also happens to be a really nice guy.

San Antonio has been so lucky.

Come on Whottt, I was waiting for your response to this article and that is all you got? I thought you were going to tear it up.

Don't disappoint.

[Useruser666]

Come on Whottt, I was waiting for your response to this article and that is all you got? I thought you were going to tear it up.

Don't disappoint.

I know, that was only 3 paragraphs. And short ones at that! In Whottt's defense, I have seen him go thermo-nuclear on this topic before.

[NoMoneyDown]

Charley Rosen, former CBA coach

Nuff said.

[ambchang]

This guy was a cream puff. He could come from the weak-side to block shots, but he couldn't guard his own man. He could rebound, but rarely in a crowd. He could score, but only on foul-line jumpers, or only if a defender bought a head fake after he drove his left hand into the middle. He couldn't pass or handle. He couldn't stand his ground in the paint. And, according to one of his ex-coaches, he never worked on his game in the off-season simply because he really didn't like playing basketball. Had he not played alongside of Tim Duncan, The Admiral would have been lost at sea.

Robinson held Shaq to 22.5 and 21.5 points in two seperate series, during, Shaq's prime. He won the blocked shot le, rebounding le, and scoring le (all done in the paint, but it's the soft side of the paint). He led his team in assists during his MVP season (and yet he couldn't pass). He led the league in dunks the first 3 years in his league (but noooo, he only scored on foul-line jumpers, and he probably never got those dunks from receiving the ball in the paint where he established position). He routinely ranked top 5 in the league in FT attempts (probably because players like to foul jump shooters after they bought a head fake), and he was ALWAYS in shape (genetics man, dude never had to work on it during the off-season.

And where is Scottie "migrane" Pippen, Dennis "I don't feel like playing tonight" Rodman, Shaq "company time" O'Neal, and Kobe "Kobe always calls himself Kobe" Bryant, and Michael "pushoff" Jordan? Oh yeah, they were all Phil favourites.

[Jimcs50]

Gervin can not rebound??????

ONLY IN HIS LATTER YEARS DID ICE NOT AVERAGE AT LEAST 5 REBS A GAME.

He averaged 7.4 rebs a game in his best 5 yrs, and 2 times averaged over 8 reb/game. What guard in this league can say that???

Manu has not come close to averaging 5 rebs/ game in comparison.

This guy deserves to be shot.

[Extra Stout]

Let's all remember this article the next time Rosen writes an article about how super mega awesome Tim Duncan is. You know how we all are. He'll write that article and we'll anoint him a sage.

Rosen is old, bitter, and dislikes pretty much everything that's developed in basketball since 1965. It's why he loves a guy like Tim Duncan who's all fundamentals, and dislikes guys who skate by on their athleticism. David Robinson, for example.

He tries to sound smarter than everyone else by bringing strong opinions and a working knowledge of NBA history prior to most of our births. But it's all a facade.

[Willinsa]

Remember this jackass was a CBA coach, and never spent a day in the NBA.

[alamo50]

Where is his email?

[Knoxville Spur]

Let's not forget that Hakeem had that dream shake where they would let him travel all the time. That made him even harder to stop.

There are some tiny shades of truth to what the guy said about DROB on offense, he had no go to move. He would either bust a jumper, pass the ball out of a double team, or just dribble and run right past the guy guarding him. The source of his greatness was his incredible agility for a guy 7 foot 1.

[ShoogarBear]

I think whottt is afraid of Charley Rosen.

[bobbyjoe]

It wasn't Larry Brown that said that...at least I don't think it was.

Larry Brown said Drob was the one player he'd like to go back coach again.

I think it was probably John Lucas that said it. Then again, LB is kind of two faced and he and Drob didn't exactly get along the first time around. Still, I don't see why he'd say that kind of thing about him unless he meant it.


As for the hate on Drob...it's basically the same things many Spurfans say, more or less. Drob made the mistake of being a truly good human being and role model in a shallow and cynical profession. He should have been more of a chest thumper. That's all it is....he had a nice guy at ude and because of that people eviscerate him...I think it's probably because he sets a higher standard of character and conduct than most people can ever hope to achieve.

Just be glad Duncan won this year(with a great team)...or else they would be saying the same things about Duncan..the media was savaging Duncan until game 7 of the finals...if he'd lost they would have said he couldn't win without Drob and he was a soft . Unless they were talking about Drob...Now Duncan is spared that fate.

His comments on Gervin are ignorant as well...Gervin is at worst the 3rd best 2 guard in NBA history IMO, and I'm not totally sure I put Jerry West ahead of him...not a lot of 2 guards are franchise players...and Gervin was one. Like Drob...he also happens to be a really nice guy.

San Antonio has been so lucky.

So assuming you have Jerry West #2 you are putting Gervin over Kobe Bryant, Clyde Drexler, Pistol Pete, Earl Monroe, Julius Erving, and Sam Jones?
WOW! Some put Dr. J as a SF but he was really a SG.

Your arguments about DRob are off base. Duncan and Hakeem are pretty soft-spoken, stay out of trouble, "good" guys like DRob and aren't as criticized by the media as DRob. Neither Duncan nor hakeem are chest thumpers. They just happen to have led their teams to les as #1 options, unlike Dave.

His points about Robinson not being clutch are pretty accurate and his points about Robinson's game declining in the playoffs are accurate as well. His comments about not beign a good defender or just having a weak FT line jumper, though, are pretty off base. What he should have said is that Robinson's failure to ever develop a go-to move is what prevented him from crackign that first tier of super elites.