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Not the one I posted... but it is a small sample
EDIT: Of note also are On-Off numbers, so you can get some granularity of who's doing what on an individual basis:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...S/2015/on-off/
Something I specifically mentioned in my OP...so I'm confused why he felt the need to mention that.
Not to mention this isn't looking at individial +/-, it's looking at 5-man units that have played substantial time together. If one lineup that plays 100+ minutes always drastically outscores opponents while playing together, and another lineup that plays 100+ minutes always gets crushed while out there...you seriously think nothing can be drawn from that? That seems pretty foolish. For the last time, no one is saying that these stats are perfect or that they paint the entire picture. They're a TOOL that can help give you a better understanding of what's going on.
Not the one I posted... but it is a small sample
EDIT: Of note also are On-Off numbers, so you can get some granularity of who's doing what on an individual basis:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...S/2015/on-off/
Parker's been horrible. Diaw was tired from playing all summer and coasting all season - hopefully he wakes up for the playoffs. Belli :-( shouldn't play at all in the playoffs.
The starters net RTG would be much higher if Enrique didn't start tbh
Really good post. Thanks for doing all this work.I did this last year and some people found it interesting, so might as well do it again. I'll look at some of the more commonly seen lineups the Spurs have used this year, and highlight how they've performed.
Just to get this out of the way for some who might be unfamiliar with it: Net RTG is the amount of points you outscore (or get outscored by) your opponents per 100 possessions. +10 Net RTG --> you're outscoring opponents by 10 points per 100 possessions, -10 Net RTG --> you're getting outscored by 10 points per 100 possessions. Just for a gauge: Spurs are currently 5th in the league with a Net RTG of +5.36. The Warriors this year are 1st and have a Net RTG of +10.97. That's an all-time great level of play.
The starters - Parker/Green/Leonard/Splitter/Duncan - Net RTG = +23.9
This is our 2nd most-used lineup (~210 minutes played), and it's been absolutely dominant this year. Out of lineups that have played at least 100 minutes together, this is the 4th best 5-man unit in the league. Since the halfway mark at 41 games, this has been the 2nd best lineup in the league (+26 Net RTG). We should all be thankful that Pop stopped ing around and went back to putting Tiago in the starting lineup. FWIW, this unit last year had a Net RTG of +14.4...so this starting unit has done noticeably better this season.
The most common - Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan - Net RTG = +6.2
A little surprising this lineup has played more than the previous one, but Splitter missed a lot of time this year and then Pop was being weird with his minutes for a while when he came back, so yeah. As you can see, they haven't been nearly as effective as the starters, but they've still done well. I think one of the biggest reasons this lineup has "struggled" is Diaw has appeared to be coasting for most of the season. I'm not sure I've ever seen a more obvious example of it tbh. I'm pretty sure I've seen more effort from Boris over the past month than I saw in the entire first half of the season combined. This was actually probably our best lineup last season (+28.9 Net RTG). A big difference has been Kawhi/Diaw's 3-point shooting. Both were legitimate threats from deep last year, but this year, both have struggled mightily in that aspect.
The ugly - Parker/Ginobili/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan - Net RTG = -9.9
Sheesh. This is the 3rd most common lineup, and they've been pretty terrible. On paper, it seems fine, and last year they did pretty well, particularly in the playoffs. Parker, Ginobili, and Diaw have all been extremely inconsistent this year. Some games Parker will look like he doesn't belong on an NBA team, and other nights he plays like a top PG. Manu has had a down year, and as I mentioned earlier, Diaw seems to have been coasting for most of the year. Parker/Ginobili is a pretty terrible defensive backcourt. As I mentioned with the last lineup, Kawhi/Diaw both struggling from 3 is a problem...but the spacing is really off with this lineup. Parker's mid-range game has been extremely mediocre this year. Duncan's jumper is all but non-existent at this point. Ginobili's mid-range jumper has seemed pretty inconsistent as well. I think shooting is one of the main flaws with this unit.
The Red Mamba - Parker/Green/Kawhi/Bonner/Duncan - Net RTG = -0.9
Our 4th most-used lineup. Please, Pop, don't play Bonner over Splitter save for a few special matchups. I think Bonner has gotten a little too much hate in the past, but at this point in his career, he really shouldn't be playing meaningful minutes. Not much else to say here.
The bench - Mills/Ginobili/Belinelli/Diaw/Splitter - Net RTG = -2.6
6th most common lineup, and here's one of the biggest differences from last season. This lineup was fantastic last year with a Net RTG of +31.9. This year? Not so much. Obviously Mills has struggled to gain rhythm since returning from injury and that's a big part of things. With Mills/Diaw both struggling from deep, and Manu not being as great of a shooter as he used to be, the spacing here can get rough. Belinelli hasn't been as lights out either. I'm still fine with this lineup though, and I like how Pop has been balancing Splitter's minutes between the starters and the bench. Gives the bench some added defense having Splitter out there. We just need to hope Mills gets back to form, and Diaw/Splitter continue their improved play.
The really ugly - Joseph/Belinelli/Green/Splitter/Duncan - Net RTG = -16.6
At this point, we're getting into lineups that have spent <50 minutes together. This one in particular has played 44 minutes together, and is the 8th most common lineup). Some conclusions can still be drawn, but you should be wary of the sample size here. Regardless, this lineup has clearly played like . Just on paper, it doesn't look pretty. Out of Joseph/Belinelli/Green, only Cory can really create for himself. None of those 3 are good at creating plays for others. At this point Duncan can't create for himself enough to carry an offense consistently, and Tiago has been inconsistent this year.
The surprising - Joseph/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Baynes - Net RTG = +26.6
Moving on down, this lineup has played about 40 minutes together, and has clearly done really well. Again, small sample size...but one thing worth noting: Joseph/Green/Leonard is an amazing perimeter defense crew, and I suspect that's a big part of why this lineup has had success.
Wow, seriously? - Parker/Ginobili/Green/Diaw/Duncan - Net RTG = -29.9
Our 10th most-used lineup at 35 minutes. God damn
Well that's it. Feel free to discuss some of these things and why you think certain lineups are doing well/struggling, or some other lineups you'd like to see more of. If you'd like to look at this information yourself, click here
Like you, a little worried about "the ugly" lineup because that's what Pop often uses to close games.
thanks for taking the time to write that up 86. and thanks to everyone else who commented. i love reading up on stuff like this.
in other words, this should be out starting lineup
Parker/Green/Leonard/Splitter/Duncan - Net RTG = +23.9
this should be our bench
Joseph/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Baynes - Net RTG = +26.6
in the playoffs. Patty and manu are obvious wildcards, since they were out a lot.
no I described why plus minus or net rating is worthless.
Not sure why without Duncan-Splitter on the floor Pop still play Kawhi as a 3p shooter instead of exploiting his post-up game and some of his mid j with that lineup, since Kawhi is a better off the dribble shooter than a 3 spot-up shooter.
Last edited by wildchild; 03-27-2015 at 10:24 PM.
Bump. How of you find these stats
http://www.82games.com/1415/1415SAS.HTM
Clicking an individual player also shows you the 5-man unit info.
Last update: 2/18/2015
I actually used Basketballreference for this topic. As vander pointed out, 82games doesn't seem to update their numbers daily like Basketball reference.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../2015/lineups/
It's worth noting that the Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan lineup did really well to close out the season in Splitter's absence. When I initially made this topic a month ago, they had a net rating of +6.2. They finished the season with a net rating of +12.1. Not particularly surprising consider how great Kawhi and Diaw played down the stretch.
The huge difference is Diaw playing great last year while this year he doesn´t care at all.I did this last year and some people found it interesting, so might as well do it again. I'll look at some of the more commonly seen lineups the Spurs have used this year, and highlight how they've performed.
Just to get this out of the way for some who might be unfamiliar with it: Net RTG is the amount of points you outscore (or get outscored by) your opponents per 100 possessions. +10 Net RTG --> you're outscoring opponents by 10 points per 100 possessions, -10 Net RTG --> you're getting outscored by 10 points per 100 possessions. Just for a gauge: Spurs are currently 5th in the league with a Net RTG of +5.36. The Warriors this year are 1st and have a Net RTG of +10.97. That's an all-time great level of play.
The starters - Parker/Green/Leonard/Splitter/Duncan - Net RTG = +23.9
This is our 2nd most-used lineup (~210 minutes played), and it's been absolutely dominant this year. Out of lineups that have played at least 100 minutes together, this is the 4th best 5-man unit in the league. Since the halfway mark at 41 games, this has been the 2nd best lineup in the league (+26 Net RTG). We should all be thankful that Pop stopped ing around and went back to putting Tiago in the starting lineup. FWIW, this unit last year had a Net RTG of +14.4...so this starting unit has done noticeably better this season.
The most common - Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan - Net RTG = +6.2
A little surprising this lineup has played more than the previous one, but Splitter missed a lot of time this year and then Pop was being weird with his minutes for a while when he came back, so yeah. As you can see, they haven't been nearly as effective as the starters, but they've still done well. I think one of the biggest reasons this lineup has "struggled" is Diaw has appeared to be coasting for most of the season. I'm not sure I've ever seen a more obvious example of it tbh. I'm pretty sure I've seen more effort from Boris over the past month than I saw in the entire first half of the season combined. This was actually probably our best lineup last season (+28.9 Net RTG). A big difference has been Kawhi/Diaw's 3-point shooting. Both were legitimate threats from deep last year, but this year, both have struggled mightily in that aspect.
The ugly - Parker/Ginobili/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan - Net RTG = -9.9
Sheesh. This is the 3rd most common lineup, and they've been pretty terrible. On paper, it seems fine, and last year they did pretty well, particularly in the playoffs. Parker, Ginobili, and Diaw have all been extremely inconsistent this year. Some games Parker will look like he doesn't belong on an NBA team, and other nights he plays like a top PG. Manu has had a down year, and as I mentioned earlier, Diaw seems to have been coasting for most of the year. Parker/Ginobili is a pretty terrible defensive backcourt. As I mentioned with the last lineup, Kawhi/Diaw both struggling from 3 is a problem...but the spacing is really off with this lineup. Parker's mid-range game has been extremely mediocre this year. Duncan's jumper is all but non-existent at this point. Ginobili's mid-range jumper has seemed pretty inconsistent as well. I think shooting is one of the main flaws with this unit.
The Red Mamba - Parker/Green/Kawhi/Bonner/Duncan - Net RTG = -0.9
The bench - Mills/Ginobili/Belinelli/Diaw/Splitter - Net RTG = -2.6
6th most common lineup, and here's one of the biggest differences from last season. This lineup was fantastic last year with a Net RTG of +31.9. This year? Not so much. Obviously Mills has struggled to gain rhythm since returning from injury and that's a big part of things. With Mills/Diaw both struggling from deep, and Manu not being as great of a shooter as he used to be, the spacing here can get rough. Belinelli hasn't been as lights out either. I'm still fine with this lineup though, and I like how Pop has been balancing Splitter's minutes between the starters and the bench. Gives the bench some added defense having Splitter out there. We just need to hope Mills gets back to form, and Diaw/Splitter continue their improved play.
The really ugly - Joseph/Belinelli/Green/Splitter/Duncan - Net RTG = -16.6
At this point, we're getting into lineups that have spent <50 minutes together. This one in particular has played 44 minutes together, and is the 8th most common lineup). Some conclusions can still be drawn, but you should be wary of the sample size here. Regardless, this lineup has clearly played like . Just on paper, it doesn't look pretty. Out of Joseph/Belinelli/Green, only Cory can really create for himself. None of those 3 are good at creating plays for others. At this point Duncan can't create for himself enough to carry an offense consistently, and Tiago has been inconsistent this year.
The surprising - Joseph/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Baynes - Net RTG = +26.6
Moving on down, this lineup has played about 40 minutes together, and has clearly done really well. Again, small sample size...but one thing worth noting: Joseph/Green/Leonard is an amazing perimeter defense crew, and I suspect that's a big part of why this lineup has had success.
Wow, seriously? - Parker/Ginobili/Green/Diaw/Duncan - Net RTG = -29.9
Our 10th most-used lineup at 35 minutes. God damn
Well that's it. Feel free to discuss some of these things and why you think certain lineups are doing well/struggling, or some other lineups you'd like to see more of. If you'd like to look at this information yourself, click here
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