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I'm pretty sure he was make a jab at the instances of child molestation in the Catholic church, which, of course, wouldn't be considered "Christ-like".
Second vote for don't believe.
I'm pretty sure he was make a jab at the instances of child molestation in the Catholic church, which, of course, wouldn't be considered "Christ-like".
no, no, and no.
What's your point? That human beings are fallible? um....okaaayyy.
Primary data sources were the US Bureau of Prisons 1997 report led "Religious Affiliations of Inmates", the City University of New York 2001 American Religious Identification Survey, and the 2000 Census. Numerous secondary sources.
I really don't care if you believe me. I've posted excerpts of my work on this message board before. More importantly, my work helped me earn my degree. That's all the validation I need.
If you choose to ignore data because it doesn't conform to your existing beliefs, or because you don't want to believe people on the internet, or because you have evidence that explicitly contradicts what I say, it is your choice.
I would invite you too look at statistics that compare the education levels, salaries, home conditions, divorce rates, suicide rates, and crime rates of those people who outwardly identify themselves as "Atheists" versus those who identify themselves as "Christian."
If your reconciliation of the data with your belief is that those identifying themselves as "Christians" aren't "real" Christians, then that is also your choice.
If you are truly a statistician than you would surely have trouble drawing such conclusions amidst the American population, where something like 80 to 90% identify themselves as Christian. If close to 90% of a population identifies with a particular group, how in the can you make logical, unskewed comparisons between that group and the remaining 10%? You can't. Any results would be utterly useless and misleading. You would have to find a society that has a reasonably balanced representation of atheist/Christian. Do you have data on such a society?
Well... no. I think you have a misunderstanding of statistics and sampling methods.
Scott, I pulled up the 1997 report. And all I can say is....what the are you talking about? If anything, the percentage of prisoners identifying themselves as Christians appears to be slightly less than the percentage of the overall population identifying themselves as Christian. It also stated that Muslims prisoners make up about 7.4% of the prison population? I'll have to check that against the U.S Muslim population, but I'm pretty sure that would make Muslims disproportionately prone to crime? But that's just based on a cursory glance of your data source. Here is what I found interesting on the same site.
USA Adult religious affiliation:
Year 1990 Year 2001
Christian 86.20% 76.46%
Non-Christians 3.34% 3.72%
No Religion 8.17% 14.17%
Did not state 2.30% 5.41%
So, in a country where close to 90% identify themselves as Christian, that religious group only represents 76% of the prison population. And the "No-Religion" group is in fact over represented at 14%.
(sorry for sloppy "table", I can't seem to format on this site)
Last edited by Jelly; 09-27-2005 at 09:55 PM.
You can't go from the raw data source to conclusions - which is why I didn't post the raw data sources - they are rather useless until a lot of work is done to be able to analyze the data.
The table you posted looks like the CUNY study, which is the religious affliation of all citizens, not of those incarcerated.
I'm sure you just mistyped here... no, 76% of the Christian population is not incarerated!So, in a country where close to 90% identify themselves as Christian, only 76% of said group is incarcerated.
A few brief, and non-technical look at statistics comparing Christians to Atheists (which is different than comparing Christians to non-Christians):
in 1997, 1 of every 500 inmates (0.2%) identified themselves as "atheist", "agnostic" or having no religion. On the other hand, 83.3% of the inmates identified themselves as Christian. The ratio of Christian to Atheist inmates, before controlling and adjusting the data for those who said they became Christian while incarcerated, was 419:1.
On the other hand, based on the CUNY survey, 76.5% of American adults (not 90%, as you threw out) identified themselves as Christian. 14.1% identified themselves as atheist, agnostic, or having no religion. That is a ration of about 11 Christians for every 1 atheist. You can see, the "Atheist" group is heavily under-represented in prisons.
That is very superficial and basic look at the data. My research worked, as I mentioned, to control for conversions while in prison (the relative propensity for conversion to Islam is as high as the propensity for inmates to convert to Christianity, and as you can imagine higher for certain inmates).
I'd encourage anyone not to give too much merit to any conclusions you could possible draw from a "cursory" glace at raw data - it will naturally lead to erroneous conclusions. That is why the fields of Statistics exists to begin with.
Edit: I noticed you edited your typo. However, you are confusing the table you posted with the data of incarcerated religious affliation, as I previously mentioned.
Interesting that you should bring that up, because as our murder rate has been dropping, you will also find the percantage of people who identify themselves as Christians also dropping.
But, that of course doesn't reconcile with certain groups who argue that the lack of Christian values is what is "wrong" with our country.
You cannot just connect two random and unrelated facts to reach such dramatic conclusions. It's silly and nonsensical. You have no credible way of drawing cause and effect here. (if you do than please pony up). Just as I cannot draw cause and effect between the rise in cappacino consumption and the increase in divorce filings over the past ten years.
I didn't try to imply causation any more than you did in your original post about Russia.
I'm not religious in fact I think it's ridiculous, but nobody is Christlike except Christ no matter how hard they try.
That should read the lack of adhering to Christian/moral values.
Christians asking for scientific studies!
What evidence will you lot present? That fiction book of yours?
I think if we all stopped adhereing to Christian values the world would be a better...people would be over sexed and loving it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jochhejaam Those that are truly Christlike are not prone to criminal behaviour
And no one is Godly except God no matter how hard they try?
No one moves snail-like except a snail no matter how slow they are?
Your arguement has nothing to do with and does not address my post. Do you know what prone means? It does not equate to perfection.
No. Actually, that table represents prison population. In any case, after checking out a few other sites, it seems Christians are evenly represented, as are atheists. I don't think your implication that Christians are more prone to crime has any merit whatsoever. I have noticed while attempting to look up data that there is a lot of disparity in the numbers offered by various sites. The sites that claimed only 0.5% of prison inmates were atheists were apparently atheist sites themselves!! Some of the figures I saw that showed 18% of prisoners being atheists were (go figure) related to Christian websites. Frankly, I suspect the 18% figure and the 0.5% figure are both a lot of crap propagated by idealogues on both sides.
Can you provide a link to that data then. The table you presented happened to match exactly with the CUNY study of the Religious Affliiation of Adults, not the prison study.No. Actually, that table represents prison population.
And the Bureau of Prisons study was done in 1997, so they wouldn't have 2001 numbers (or 1990 numbers, since it wasn't done in 1990 either). You obviously have your data mixed up. You can continue to support your mix up, but it immediately dismisses any credibility you bring to the argument.
I'm not shocked. My study doesn't indicate that Christians are more prone to crime because they are Christians, just that they are more prone to crime, which the statistics show. Whether or not you would like to believe it is your choice. Certain groups (see: Christians) do not have a very good track record of believing things when evidence is right in front of them.I don't think your implication that Christians are more prone to crime has any merit whatsoever.
Why would you believe an atheist site or a Christian site? I used the US Bureau of Prisons, who conducted a scientific study. I don't care if godsucks.com thinks that all murderers are priests or jesussaves.com thinks they are all atheists.I have noticed while attempting to look up data that there is a lot of disparity in the numbers offered by various sites. The sites that claimed only 0.5% of prison inmates were atheists were apparently atheist sites themselves!!
I agree, so why not use the Bureau of Prison's figure and ignore the hubris?Frankly, I suspect the 18% figure and the 0.5% figure are both a lot of crap propagated by idealogues on both sides.
Crickets chirping.
Obviously Christ is "christlike" like I'm Medvedenkolike....who gives a . I am aware of Christ's life probably as much as you or anyone else thats programmed to understand. So since I'm a "loser" that it doesn't matter. Man you Christians are so polite and forgiving...Quote:
Originally Posted by Medvedenko
What's truly "Christlike"....like killing in the name of your god...or maybe molesting a young boy. .
?? One of the dumbest questions I've ever run across...ever.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are totally ignorant of the life Christ lived.
If you are aware of the life he lived and still think those assertions represent Christ (Christlike) then you are an utter fool.
Either way, at this point in your life, you're a loser.
Low blowChristians asking for scientific studies!
What evidence will you lot present? That fiction book of yours?
Forgiving? There's nothing in any of your posts about you asking for that.
Forgiving should be second nature for Christians. In lining ourselves up with the life and teachings of Christ It's not an optional aspect and therefore can never be justifiably withheld.
Loser was a little harsh so I'll take that part back and subs ute the word misguided in that comment. The rest of my reply stands.
I'd like to close the thread out by thanking Jelly for coming along, posting incorrect statistics, defended said statistics when questioned, and then disappearing when questioned again. I'd also like to thank Jelly for doing all this after questioning my credibility.
Have a nice day.
Three cheers for Jelly!
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