LOL "best people"

[boutons_deux]

"why would I want someone who wants more people flooding our southern borders"

to do the nasty, dirty, hot, filthy, low-paid work US citizens won't

"refugees from terrorist countries coming here"

... from countries where USA has intervened, for BigCorp profit, to destabilize those counties into continuing "failed states"

"Don't we Americans have enough problems here"

immigrants per capita commit less crime that US citizens.

[pgardn]

Well, even as a minority woman with a college degree - why would I want someone who wants more people flooding our southern borders and more refugees from terrorist countries coming here? Don't we Americans have enough problems here without inviting in people who might mow us down/knife us?

What if Bundification seeps into your backyard and declares a new country?
They will test your allegiance. You might be required to feed the marauders Hostess snack cakes or die.
So much to be fearful of...

[Trainwreck2100]

Well, even as a minority woman with a college degree - why would I want someone who wants more people flooding our southern borders and more refugees from terrorist countries coming here? Don't we Americans have enough problems here without inviting in people who might mow us down/knife us?

this is america, nobody runs around with knives

[RandomGuy]

Al Franken? Seriously?

Just because he is from Minnesota, doesn't mean his questions are invalid.

[boutons_deux]

Serious Al Franken demonstrates what a ing JOKE are the Repug Senators.

[RandomGuy]

Well, even as a minority woman with a college degree - why would I want someone who wants more people flooding our southern borders and more refugees from terrorist countries coming here? Don't we Americans have enough problems here without inviting in people who might mow us down/knife us?

Statistically speaking, you are more likely to be killed by someone born in the US than any immigrant or refugee, this is true both on an abosolute basis, as well as by per capita ratios.

This means you would, on balance, be safer with more immigrants.

These immigrants are also often younger, and have more kids, ultimately contributing a net to the long term US economy. (estimated at about $90k @ NPV if my memory of the economic paper I read a few years back is accurate)

That makes your statement both being factually wrong, as well as un-christian.

Just sayin'. You are smarter and kinder than that.

[boutons_deux]

You are smarter and kinder than that.

fake news.

RMT is ideologically blinded

[rjv]

Dem's have no one to blame but themselves for the situation we are in. You can mock the stupidity of the GOP all they like but until they come to grips with their own leadership then it's going to keep repeating itself.

After the most embarrassing loss in modern election history what did the Dems do to change? Leadership outside of Wasserman is the same.

Dems have created a civil war because they have a tendency to cannibalize one another. Whereas the GOP is willing to embrace even the lunatic fringe factions of its membership, dems would rather alienate extremely important demographics that would tend to vote for their party. Regarding millennials and third party voters as "nuts" (Hillary Clinton's recent comments) and sabotaging the Sanders campaign is demonstrable evidence of that fact. Unless the dems understand that there is a legitimate and increasingly growing base of its party that has tired of neoliberal policies and war-mongering, they will continue to struggle to gain seats in congress or to win back the White House. Blaming the Russians, Sanders supporters and Jill Stein won't change that.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Dems have created a civil war because they have a tendency to cannibalize one another. Whereas the GOP is willing to embrace even the lunatic fringe factions of its membership, dems would rather alienate extremely important demographics that would tend to vote for their party. Regarding millennials and third party voters as "nuts" (Hillary Clinton's recent comments) and sabotaging the Sanders campaign is demonstrable evidence of that fact. Unless the dems understand that there is a legitimate and increasingly growing base of its party that has tired of neoliberal policies and war-mongering, they will continue to struggle to gain seats in congress or to win back the White House. Blaming the Russians, Sanders supporters and Jill Stein won't change that.

The dichotomy between oligarchy and the people is stark. I still find it interesting that the oligarchy won in the Dem party and not in the GOP. White trash makes one of a voting bloc.

The difference was the nature of the usurpers and how the losing factions responded. Trump capitalized on the stupidity of white trash but the elites aligned against him with the refrain of NEVERTRUMP. That they did not mean it and were pragmatic after the convention is unsurprising. They still had policy initiatives and elections to win.

OTOH, the elites were able to undermine the Dem usurper from smoke filled rooms at the DNC. And as plebs are wont to do they were not realistic nor pragmatic and insisted on an ideal that was not there.

And the rooms at the DNC are still filled with smoke. I don't know who you are expecting to change. I don't think it's lost on the oligarchy that their interests run anathema to plebs.

What the liberal plebs need to realize is that while you can support a few worthwhile national candidates mostly outside of leadership any real substantive change is going to happen at the grass roots by influencing the locally elected delegates that choose the leadership at the convention and write the platform.

Then you can start chipping away at the democratic oligarchy figureheaded by the Kerrys and the Clintons.

[boutons_deux]

"White trash makes one of a voting bloc"

myth

Trash's voters were divided in thirds: 1/3 < $50K, 1/3 = $50-100K, 1/3 > $100K

Both parties are corrupted by BigDonor.

BigProgressiveDonors may be progressive socially, but financially they are as conservative/venal as rightwing donors.

[Thread]

"White trash makes one of a voting bloc"

myth

Trash's voters were divided in thirds: 1/3 < $50K, 1/3 = $50-100K, 1/3 > $100K

Both parties are corrupted by BigDonor.

BigProgressiveDonors may be progressive socially, but financially they are as conservative/venal as rightwing donors.

Here's boutsy, I'll boil it down for ya:::

He mopped the in' floor with her in' ass.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

"White trash makes one of a voting bloc"

myth

Trash's voters were divided in thirds: 1/3 < $50K, 1/3 = $50-100K, 1/3 > $100K

Both parties are corrupted by BigDonor.

BigProgressiveDonors may be progressive socially, but financially they are as conservative/venal as rightwing donors.

I just talked about how GOP elites became pragmatic after they lost at the convention and you come with this. Not surprising but sad nonetheless.

The GOP primaries saw an increase in turnout by 20%. The new voter demographic? Poor, uneducated, whites ie white trash and they were coming out to vote for Trump. No the GOP base still voted the ticket in the general. 55% of them didn't in the primary.

[Thread]

I just talked about how GOP elites became pragmatic after they lost at the convention and you come with this. Not surprising but sad nonetheless.

The GOP primaries saw an increase in turnout by 20%. The new voter demographic? Poor, uneducated, whites ie white trash and they were coming out to vote for Trump. No the GOP base still voted the ticket in the general. 55% of them didn't in the primary.

& I called this first, Lump. Me. Upwards of 75% of the electorate will be going to the polls henceforth, led by Repubs, but, will affect across the parties.

After decades of neglect & indifference, we're gonna do us some votin'.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

& I called this first, Lump. Me. Upwards of 75% of the electorate will be going to the polls henceforth, led by Repubs, but, will affect across the parties.

After decades of neglect & indifference, we're gonna do us some votin'.

You don't have the millennial vote and whiteys hegemony is shrinking every day. Have fun with your delusions.

[rjv]

The dichotomy between oligarchy and the people is stark. I still find it interesting that the oligarchy won in the Dem party and not in the GOP. White trash makes one of a voting bloc.

The difference was the nature of the usurpers and how the losing factions responded. Trump capitalized on the stupidity of white trash but the elites aligned against him with the refrain of NEVERTRUMP. That they did not mean it and were pragmatic after the convention is unsurprising. They still had policy initiatives and elections to win.

OTOH, the elites were able to undermine the Dem usurper from smoke filled rooms at the DNC. And as plebs are wont to do they were not realistic nor pragmatic and insisted on an ideal that was not there.

And the rooms at the DNC are still filled with smoke. I don't know who you are expecting to change. I don't think it's lost on the oligarchy that their interests run anathema to plebs.

What the liberal plebs need to realize is that while you can support a few worthwhile national candidates mostly outside of leadership any real substantive change is going to happen at the grass roots by influencing the locally elected delegates that choose the leadership at the convention and write the platform.

Then you can start chipping away at the democratic oligarchy figureheaded by the Kerrys and the Clintons.

That the oligarchs were so capable of easily transitioning from the expectation that Cinton would win to a Trump victory instead is telling because it vindicates the presumption that there has been a minutia of difference between the monolithic Democrats and the GOP, when it comes to policy making. I do think there is such a movement that you refer to at the lower level and there appears to be momentum there. Whether or not it will be enough to resurrect the Democrats remains to be seen.

[rmt]

"why would I want someone who wants more people flooding our southern borders"

to do the nasty, dirty, hot, filthy, low-paid work US citizens won't

"refugees from terrorist countries coming here"

... from countries where USA has intervened, for BigCorp profit, to destabilize those counties into continuing "failed states"

"Don't we Americans have enough problems here"

immigrants per capita commit less crime that US citizens.

boutons, maybe if we didn't have so much welfare without work, these US citizens would be willing to do whatever work there was to put food on the table. And problems do not just include crime - there is stress to all our systems - our educational, legal, etc. Put Americans to work and stop with this insane illegal immigration.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That the oligarchs were so capable of easily transitioning from the expectation that Cinton would win to a Trump victory instead is telling because it vindicates the presumption that there has been a minutia of difference between the monolithic Democrats and the GOP, when it comes to policy making. I do think there is such a movement that you refer to at the lower level and there appears to be momentum there. Whether or not it will be enough to resurrect the Democrats remains to be seen.

There is no significant economic or foreign policy difference between neocons like Bush and Cheney and neolibs like Clinton and Kerry. The social issues do diverge but not by much.

Obama was not necessarily one particularly in rhetoric but he packed his administration and the DNC with them.

[Thread]

You don't have the millennial vote and whiteys hegemony is shrinking every day. Have fun with your delusions.

But, it'll hold for the next decade, give or take a year.

That should get me close to my house.

[RandomGuy]

The dichotomy between oligarchy and the people is stark. I still find it interesting that the oligarchy won in the Dem party and not in the GOP. White trash makes one of a voting bloc.

The difference was the nature of the usurpers and how the losing factions responded. Trump capitalized on the stupidity of white trash but the elites aligned against him with the refrain of NEVERTRUMP. That they did not mean it and were pragmatic after the convention is unsurprising. They still had policy initiatives and elections to win.

OTOH, the elites were able to undermine the Dem usurper from smoke filled rooms at the DNC. And as plebs are wont to do they were not realistic nor pragmatic and insisted on an ideal that was not there.

And the rooms at the DNC are still filled with smoke. I don't know who you are expecting to change. I don't think it's lost on the oligarchy that their interests run anathema to plebs.

What the liberal plebs need to realize is that while you can support a few worthwhile national candidates mostly outside of leadership any real substantive change is going to happen at the grass roots by influencing the locally elected delegates that choose the leadership at the convention and write the platform.

Then you can start chipping away at the democratic oligarchy figureheaded by the Kerrys and the Clintons.

I think that is beginning to happen. Reaction to Trump is spurring a lot of grass roots involvement. A new batch of people is coming in to run for everything, and that will provide a decent framework and population from which to draw the best candidates.