Leaving Neverland do entary

[SpursforSix]

Yeah, I see that. Meant more along the lines as confirmation to me. I don't see the advantages of the accusers now doing this. I dont see HBO standing behind this if this was a cash grab. In the court of public opinion, it was more confirmation. I do admit, there is grey area as Jackson isn't here to defend himself nor can he be even convicted in a civil case to "officially" or "legally" convict him.

And I'm sure we can go online and find people "debunking" the doc or providing alternate explanations.

But at the end of the day, this was a super weird dude who slept with little boys in his own bed for weeks at a time. I don't know how anyone can give him the the benefit of the doubt.

[CitizenDwayne]

And I'm sure we can go online and find people "debunking" the doc or providing alternate explanations.

But at the end of the day, this was a super weird dude who slept with little boys in his own bed for weeks at a time. I don't know how anyone can give him the the benefit of the doubt.

Exactly. There are two choices:

1. He was a pedophile.

2. He just happened to build an amusement park for kids in his backyard, admit to sleeping with boys, set up an alarm system that would alert someone else nearby, have a history of abuse in his childhood, have a myriad of rumors and odd behavior surrounding his sexuality otherwise, and been accused by several boys of molesting them.

Sure, the accusers may have financial gain in mind; so does the family, who had little involvement with him in those years but now see their cash cow slipping away

Imagine someone in your hometown behaving like him, then being accused; would you really be railing about giving him benefit of the doubt? He shouldn’t get a pass because “oh he’s eccentric” or “he relates well to kids” (a common stance taken by pedophiles).

[Spurminator]

Yeah, I see that. Meant more along the lines as confirmation to me.

That's fair. There's certainly more than enough evidence for public opinion to come to that assumption. And more than enough where parents should have been wary of ever letting their kids spend time alone with him.

[SpursforSix]

That's fair. There's certainly more than enough evidence for public opinion to come to that assumption. And more than enough where parents should have been wary of ever letting their kids spend time alone with him.

god...the parents...a whole 'nother story. They're almost as bad as the ones from the recent alien/masturbation/molestation doc.

[SpursforSix]

That's fair. There's certainly more than enough evidence for public opinion to come to that assumption. And more than enough where parents should have been wary of ever letting their kids spend time alone with him.

and further...maybe Jackson recognized which kids had the blindest parents. Which is why maybe not all boys that stayed with him were molested.

[Spurminator]

Exactly. There are two choices:

1. He was a pedophile.

2. He just happened to build an amusement park for kids in his backyard, admit to sleeping with boys, set up an alarm system that would alert someone else nearby, have a history of abuse in his childhood, have a myriad of rumors and odd behavior surrounding his sexuality otherwise, and been accused by several boys of molesting them.

Sure, the accusers may have financial gain in mind; so does the family, who had little involvement with him in those years but now see their cash cow slipping away

Imagine someone in your hometown behaving like him, then being accused; would you really be railing about giving him benefit of the doubt? He shouldn’t get a pass because “oh he’s eccentric” or “he relates well to kids” (a common stance taken by pedophiles).

You should also include in #2 that, despite being an enormously public figure that everyone assumed for years was a pedophile, law enforcement was never able to prove it. That seems like a long shot to me too.

Public opinion is a right, and people are certainly en led to their opinions about MJ. No question he was weird, and highly inappropriate. But pedophile is a serious accusation and in my opinion you need more than rumors and postmortem testimonials to make it.

The Jackson Estate is going to be fine, and MJ's legacy will probably survive this, so in the long run this isn't about how we view him, it's about what standard we apply to these accusations moving forward when they're made against people who aren't dead multimillionaires with a worldwide following of admirers and fans.

[Chucho]

I think before it his behaviors and eccentricity were known about at his peak in popularity, some parents might have been that naive at first.

[Chucho]

But pedophile is a serious accusation

Avante's influence is spreading!

[Avant]

Avante's influence is spreading!

Dude, if we see one of those sick s we blow that freaks head right off, that is all I have ever said so why act stupid?

[Chucho]

Dude, if we see one of those sick s we blow that freaks head right off, that is all I have ever said so why act stupid?

You were probably jealous of the numbers he was putting up and not needing to resort to 3rd worlders.

[Will Hunting]

^

[DJR210]

Just saw the 2nd half of the do entary.. what a sick piece of

Crazy how he started panicking when the investigators started closing in on him and then he goes into damage control mode trying to spark up "friendships" again calling everyday to try and get the young adults he brainwashed as kids to come to his defense and utilize the coaching he gave them when younger.

[CitizenDwayne]

This is not in the doc to my knowledge, but Michael had in his possession 2 books (“The Boy” and “Boys Will Be Boys”). Due to there not actually being sexual contact in them, they’re not legally considered CP. However they are filled with nude pics of underage boys. Defenders should look into it.

*This isn’t some conspiracy nonsense btw; the books were acquired by police in 1993

[SpursforSix]

This is not in the doc to my knowledge, but Michael had in his possession 2 books (“The Boy” and “Boys Will Be Boys”). Due to there not actually being sexual contact in them, they’re not legally considered CP. However they are filled with nude pics of underage boys. Defenders should look into it.

*This isn’t some conspiracy nonsense btw; the books were acquired by police in 1993

Plus...iirc...they confiscated a bunch of porn videos. Which isn't damning in itself. But it does someone corroborate the kids' testimony that he watched porn with them.

[spurraider21]

Plus...iirc...they confiscated a bunch of porn videos. Which isn't damning in itself. But it does someone corroborate the kids' testimony that he watched porn with them.

doesnt corroborate the bolded

[SpursforSix]

doesnt corroborate the bolded

That's why I said "somewhat".

[spurraider21]

That's why I said "somewhat".

to be fair you said "someone"

[SpursforSix]

to be fair you said "someone"

ah...my bad.

[CitizenDwayne]

Jackson’s and Gavin Arvizo’s (the ‘05 accuser) fingerprints were found on porn magazines at Neverland. It’s not a huge leap to think they looked at them together

[Avant]

You were probably jealous of the numbers he was putting up and not needing to resort to 3rd worlders.

Dummy, I was over there in 69-71, now how old was Jackson?

Do you think at all?

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Why do close friends of him keep defending him? Why didn't MacCauley or Webster come forward and throw him under the bus at some point

[SpursforSix]

Why do close friends of him keep defending him? Why didn't MacCauley or Webster come forward and throw him under the bus at some point

It's possible that he didn't do this with every kid. Maybe the parents of those other kids were more vigilant. He may have only gone after the ones he thought he could get away with it. Or that had the most gullible parents.

[johnsmith]

I watched some of this but like many others, couldn’t stomach the entire thing so turned it off in the middle of the first episode. The part that astonished me and makes me even question the validity of the accusers (sort of), is that when I was ten years old, you can be damn sure I would have recognized jerking off with a grown up as abnormal. I find it a little hard to believe that the kid was so naive he didn’t think anything of it at ten years old. Having said that, I’m probably being the naive one here.

Also, no question svante has seen this twice by now right?

[LaMarcus Bryant]

It's possible that he didn't do this with every kid. Maybe the parents of those other kids were more vigilant. He may have only gone after the ones he thought he could get away with it. Or that had the most gullible parents.

Yeah I'm just throwing it out there.

The way that kid Wade defended MJ his entire life until he was broke and got denied a big dancing gig via MJ estate...then he starts claiming these things in his 30s after defending MJ over and over as an adult

It's just fishy.

[SpursforSix]

Yeah I'm just throwing it out there.

The way that kid Wade defended MJ his entire life until he was broke and got denied a big dancing gig via MJ estate...then he starts claiming these things in his 30s after defending MJ over and over as an adult

It's just fishy.

I agree that Robson is fishy. But not as fishy as sleeping with kids for weeks at a time.